NCAA Fines Penn State

[blueblood]

SMU still hasnt recovered. Been what, 2 or 3 decades?

If you call winning the Hawaii bowl in 2009, losing a bowl game in 2010, and winning the bbva compass bowl in 2011 not recovering...

Not quite the rose or orange bowl, but getting there.

But your right 25 yrs between bowl victories.

[wyly]

Some sports writers have suggested it's worse than the death penalty because of the zero bowl games and big ten playoffs for four years in addition to the clause that allows the Penn state players to jump ship. Not only that, the scholarships being taken away. This team is crippled for I'm guessing the next decade at least. It's going to be very hard to recruit players to go to this school.

I have no sympathy for the school at all...the more I think about the more disgusted I become, what they did defies belief, how can moral adults walk away from child rape and conspire to keep it quiet?...

"We're going to start praying for those kids"-Joe Paterno...thanks joe nice to know your religious values didn't get in the way of actually protecting those kids when you had the chance...

Edited July 24, 2012 by wyly

[blueblood]

I have no sympathy for the school at all...the more I think about the more disgusted I become, what they did defies belief, how can moral adults walk away from child rape and conspire to keep it quiet?...

"We're going to start praying for those kids"-Joe Paterno...thanks joe nice to know your religious values didn't get in the way of actually protecting those kids when you had the chance...

That's why I'm happy e school gets to take a bath for the next decade at minimum, just like those kids had to go through that pain and nothing would get done about it. The institution enabled that to go on, the institution can pay.

[Argus]

All of you are confused. Penn State is a university, a rather large one, made up of thousands of employees and tens of thousands of students. It is not a self-aware being.

Penn State did not DO anything. From what I understand, three former employees of Penn State did something bad. The intelligent thing to do then, is to punish the three former employees (one of whom is dead). Punishing an institution because of what a few people did in secrecy doesn't strike me as logical.

In the same vein, I don't believe in fining companies millions of dollars for wrongdoing. I believe in putting the people at the head of those corporations in jail, and/or heavily fining THEM for wrongdoing.

For example, Glaxosmithkline recently paid a $3 billion fine. To me, the appropriate thing to have done was to instead bankrupt the individuals who initiated the wrongdoing, and any who were aware of it or who allowed it, then put them in prison.

Individuals misbehave, not institutions. If you want to send a lesson, you punish the individuals.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Argus

[blueblood]

All of you are confused. Penn State is a university, a rather large one, made up of thousands of employees and tens of thousands of students. It is not a self-aware being.

Penn State did not DO anything. From what I understand, three former employees of Penn State did something bad. The intelligent thing to do then, is to punish the three former employees (one of whom is dead). Punishing an institution because of what a few people did in secrecy doesn't strike me as logical.

In the same vein, I don't believe in fining companies millions of dollars for wrongdoing. I believe in putting the people at the head of those corporations in jail, and/or heavily fining THEM for wrongdoing.

For example, Glaxosmithkline recently paid a $3 billion fine. To me, the appropriate thing to have done was to instead bankrupt the individuals who initiated the wrongdoing, and any who were aware of it or who allowed it, then put them in prison.

Individuals misbehave, not institutions. If you want to send a lesson, you punish the individuals.

And if you want to send a better lesson, punish everyone.

He brass covered it up, and look what happened. This is punishing those who did this by the fact that Penn states football program going down e crapper is all their doing. I wouldn't want to be In those guys shoes. This isn't about screwing over students it's about sending a message, this type of behavior will not be tolerated.

[cybercoma]

And if you want to send a better lesson, punish everyone.

I try not to say this too often about people's posts, but this is complete stupidity.

That's like saying the wife, children, parents, and siblings of a person should be punished if they commit a crime. It's completely unethical.

[wyly]

I try not to say this too often about people's posts, but this is complete stupidity.

That's like saying the wife, children, parents, and siblings of a person should be punished if they commit a crime. It's completely unethical.

I see where your coming from cyber but there wasn't a way to punish the school sufficiently without hurting the athletes...the NCAA gave the athletes an escape/transfer to other schools if they wished to go without having to sit out a year, which I understand is the normal requirement...

[cybercoma]

It just concerns me that the financial burden of this will affect other areas of academic life for students at the university and I don't feel it's fair to punish them. I believe individuals should be held accountable in court (1 of them being dead now), but the institution is bigger than the crimes of some sick individuals there.

[wyly]

It just concerns me that the financial burden of this will affect other areas of academic life for students at the university and I don't feel it's fair to punish them. I believe individuals should be held accountable in court (1 of them being dead now), but the institution is bigger than the crimes of some sick individuals there.

but the crimes(conspiracy) were committed by individuals acting on behalf of the university...how do you separate the two?...if a CEO and his board of a large corporation got into legal trouble the the executives could face punishment as well as the corporation, innocent employees further down the ladder would be effected as well...how is a school any different?

[guyser]

It just concerns me that the financial burden of this will affect other areas of academic life for students at the university

I seriously doubt that. Tuition is still paid , donations are still coming in.

Edited July 26, 2012 by guyser

[Bonam]

It just concerns me that the financial burden of this will affect other areas of academic life for students at the university and I don't feel it's fair to punish them. I believe individuals should be held accountable in court (1 of them being dead now), but the institution is bigger than the crimes of some sick individuals there.

It's impossible to impose a significant penalty on a university without causing some effect on the people that work and study at that university. I am sure you understand that much. All that can be done is to take measures to mitigate the impact on innocent parties, such as some of the students there. And, such steps were indeed included as part of the NCAA action. I see nothing wrong here.

Why must the entire institution be punished? Simple. The reason the individuals did what they did was to protect the reputation and standing of the institution. They saw that as more important than seeking justice for the children victimized in this case. And that is part of the culture of that institution. The reputation of the football program was held up on a pedestal. Giant statues were erected to their coaches, as if they were Gods. This culture had to be modified. It had to be made clear that any coverup would, in the long run, result in more damage to the football program and the university, not less. That way any future officials would know that it's better to act now and take a bit of a hit, rather than to cover it up and see the university brought to its knees later. The reputation of the whole university will hopefully no longer be gambled with by a few officials who seek to protect one particular sport program.

If you punished only the individuals and not the institution, then future individuals, brainwashed as they are by their reverence for football, would perhaps see covering up future crimes as only risking a noble sacrifice of their own freedom for the glorious cause of the football program. The American version of a martyr, and sports fans can be no less fanatical than members of any other religion. But with the whole institution and program punished, an official will know it is not just themselves they risk by covering something up, but the whole institution.

And yes, preventing innocent children from being brutally victimized by sick monsters is more important than a little bit of inconvenience to some students. Recall also that many of the students at the university continued to support Paterno as the scandal unfolded, because of their reverence for this manufactured god of theirs. While that is of course not true of all the students, the student body as a whole at Penn state was no small part of the culture that elevated football above all else, above academics, above decency, above justice.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Bonam

[cybercoma]

but the crimes(conspiracy) were committed by individuals acting on behalf of the university...how do you separate the two?...if a CEO and his board of a large corporation got into legal trouble the the executives could face punishment as well as the corporation, innocent employees further down the ladder would be effected as well...how is a school any different?

The corporation is not the executive board. The executives can be replaced and the company continues on. Moreover, you're talking about prosecutors and courts legally punishing the executives and corporation (which is considered a legal person in the US), rather than some entity outside of the criminal justice system.

[blueblood]

The corporation is not the executive board. The executives can be replaced and the company continues on. Moreover, you're talking about prosecutors and courts legally punishing the executives and corporation (which is considered a legal person in the US), rather than some entity outside of the criminal justice system.

Ask the shareholders of bp when management cut corners and we had old faithful in the gulf of mexico. Not only did heads roll, british pensioners took a bath. Nothing says clean up the mess faster than pissed off shareholders.

Had it not been a corporate entity, would the spill have been cleaned up faster???

As for punishing everyone, its common military practice to punish the entire unit if one guy screws up continuously so that he isn't playing the martyr card. Guess what its effective.

[cybercoma]

You're comparing apples and oranges. I'm sorry if you don't see how an academic institution is different from a corporation. I've tried to outline it for you.

[msj]

You're comparing apples and oranges. I'm sorry if you don't see how an academic institution is different from a corporation. I've tried to outline it for you.

No, I think the problem is that you can't see the similarities between an academic institution and a corporation.

[cybercoma]

No, I think the problem is that you can't see the similarities between an academic institution and a corporation.

You're talking about legal decisions made by the courts to penalize corporations that act in a criminal manner. I've said all along that Penn State should face that kind of punishment. What is the corporate world equivalent of the NCAA? Is the NYSE going to penalize corporations with no trial when an executive goes around diddling some kids? Because that's about the closest equivalent that can be drawn.

[Shady]

Penn State itself shouldn't have received any punishment. This is a criminal matter. Those invloved should be pursued with criminal charges. The university itself is irrelevant.

[blueblood]

You're talking about legal decisions made by the courts to penalize corporations that act in a criminal manner. I've said all along that Penn State should face that kind of punishment. What is the corporate world equivalent of the NCAA? Is the NYSE going to penalize corporations with no trial when an executive goes around diddling some kids? Because that's about the closest equivalent that can be drawn.

BP cut corners on a drilling rig and let loose oil into the gulf. The shareholders punished the company by selling their shares and company equiyty went up in smoke when the share price plummeted.

The board of directors of hp canned their ceo for running around on his wife for fear of shareholders punishing the company.

The NYSE is just a market, not a governing body like the ncaa. If the ceo of goldman sachs had for example child porn on his computer and was under police investigation and in the media, you can be certain that the shareholders would want said ceo's head on a platter.

[Bonam]

Penn State itself shouldn't have received any punishment. This is a criminal matter. Those invloved should be pursued with criminal charges. The university itself is irrelevant.

No, it's really not. The university is relevant because the culture of the university is the likely explanation for the criminal acts of the individuals in question. That culture is sick and needs to be modified.

[Boges]

Is it bad that I find this a lil' amusing?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/sweet-caroline-no-longer-welcome-penn-state-football-170850928--ncaaf.html

Don't expect to hear Neil Diamond's hit "Sweet Caroline" at Penn State football games this season.

According to Cory Geiger, a writer for the Altoona Mirror, the song has been cut from the rotation along with several other tunes, but he didn't know which ones.

"Sweet Caroline," which is a big fan participation song during games, is being cut because of the lyrics, more specifically the line "touching me, touching you."

Probably a smart move by Penn State, which is still reeling from the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal and doesn't need to add any insult to injury. Sandusky was convicted on 45 counts of child sexual abuse and is still awaiting sentencing.

Yes because Neil Diamond is clearly a pedophile

Edited August 28, 2012 by Boges

[Black Dog]

Is it bad that I find this a lil' amusing?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/sweet-caroline-no-longer-welcome-penn-state-football-170850928--ncaaf.html

Yes because Neil Diamond is clearly a pedophile

It was replaced by Gary Glitter's "Rock'n'Roll Part 2".