NCAA Fines Penn State

[cybercoma]

Just wanted to carry a conversation over from the statuses because it's difficult and obnoxious to discuss things there.

Penn State was fined for the administration's role in the child molestation case.

I don't believe this is fair to students in the current program. And while games may not be cancelled, students should not have to be punished for the administration's sins.

Although students can change schools, they will sometimes lose credits that are non-transferable or they may even be turned down at other schools for lack of space.

Moreover, the financial burden on the institution is going to affect more than just the football program. It will affect classes and research, since it's an added expense to the school's bottom line.

The administration isn't going to be paying this. The students will be paying it through their tuition fees, as they are a significant part of the revenue of the school.

Frankly, I think it's completely unacceptable for the NCAA to punish the institution financially for something that has nothing to do with NCAA anyway. If there was criminal wrongdoing, the administration should face criminal charges. All this fine does is hurt innocent students who are just trying to get an education and play ball.

[Boges]

Just wanted to carry a conversation over from the statuses because it's difficult and obnoxious to discuss things there.

Penn State was fined for the administration's role in the child molestation case.

I don't believe this is fair to students in the current program. And while games may not be cancelled, students should not have to be punished for the administration's sins.

Although students can change schools, they will sometimes lose credits that are non-transferable or they may even be turned down at other schools for lack of space.

Moreover, the financial burden on the institution is going to affect more than just the football program. It will affect classes and research, since it's an added expense to the school's bottom line.

The administration isn't going to be paying this. The students will be paying it through their tuition fees, as they are a significant part of the revenue of the school.

Frankly, I think it's completely unacceptable for the NCAA to punish the institution financially for something that has nothing to do with NCAA anyway. If there was criminal wrongdoing, the administration should face criminal charges. All this fine does is hurt innocent students who are just trying to get an education and play ball.

Are you a Pedo State fan or something?

You don't have any evidence for any of those claims you've made.

If Penn State punishes students for fines, that's on Penn State. Division 1 Football makes money for the University hand over fist. And other than room and board the university doesn't have to pay the players a cent.

$60 million is hardly going to make them have to raise tuition for the average student.

If they really wanted to punish Penn State they would have canceled a season or two.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Boges

[cybercoma]

That's not the point. They don't have to raise tuition for the students for it to impact them. Students provide money to general revenue for their education. One of the expenses that's going to come out of the general revenue is this fine. Therefore, the university won't have as much money for students classes, research, and facilities.

I'm not a Penn State fan. I couldn't possibly care less about college ball.

What seems pretty clear to me though is that this will impact students negatively. Students that had nothing to do with what happened, so I don't exactly think it's fair to them.

Moreover, Penn State's program is probably going to be affected negatively anyway. People entering school now are not going to want to be associated with that institution. I bet their enrolment drops.

Anyway, the fine by punishing the institution is punishing the students. It's not fair to them at all.

Those criminally responsible should be held criminally responsible. This kangaroo court BS shouldn't be allowed.

[Canuckistani]

I believe they cancelled 4 seasons. Good for them. What's next, we don't fine corporations because then they can't give their workers raises and have to raise prices so we're really only punishing the consumer? The NCAA can't prosecute someone criminally. All they can do is levy fines and cancel seasons. That's what they did.

[Boges]

Saying a University that allowed criminal behaviour shouldn't be fined because of how it will affect students is like saying a company shouldn't be fined because it'll affect employees and customers.

You're assuming Penn State will take the money out of General revenue. You haven't provided any evidence to support it.

I'm sure if they did make education suffer for the sins of the Football admin. the media would find out and the bad PR would be even worse.

The NCAA passed down this fine not the US government. It's a sports decision. The program might actually save money because they've been forced to give 10 less scholarships.

[Canuckistani]

Correction - they barred them from bowl games for 4 seasons, didn't cancel 4 seasons outright. I think this will smarten up administrations who are inclined to look the other way next time.

[Boges]

Correction - they barred them from bowl games for 4 seasons, didn't cancel 4 seasons outright. I think this will smarten up administrations who are inclined to look the other way next time.

Banning a team from Bowls game isn't that big a penalty because bowl games are a neutral site exhibition game that ends up costing the University more money.

Only the Big BCS games really make money for the school.

Penn State hasn't had a National Championship caliber team since 2007.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

PSU doesn't have to pay the fine, but probably will as it only represents one season of football program revenue. The NCAA has no legal jurisdiction in such matters. Besides, PSU's endowment is close to $2 billion dollars, and alumni will pour more money into the coffers.

I think it is hypocritical of the NCAA to levy such a huge fine and take such revenue, pretending that it is justified by donating the money to victim programs. The NCAA milks university athletics for the cash cow that it is, and will continue to do so regardless of cases involving illegal activity and coverups.

This entire process lacked due diligence, membership sanction, or an appeal option. It is grandstanding in the face of public outrage.

[Boges]

This entire process lacked due diligence, membership sanction, or an appeal option. It is grandstanding in the face of public outrage.

Penn State can appeal, but they wont because they're getting off rather light. Now if they got the SMU Death Penalty treatment then that would have made them suffer.

[bush_cheney2004]

Penn State can appeal, but they wont because they're getting off rather light. Now if they got the SMU Death Penalty treatment then that would have made them suffer.

But they didn't, pretending that doing so would hurt current students athletes. That ridiculous considering the other penalties. The NCAA is beholden to the same cash cow as any PSU administrator or coach, but it will never admit it.

[Boges]

But they didn't, pretending that doing so would hurt current students athletes. That ridiculous considering the other penalties. The NCAA is beholden to the same cash cow as any PSU administrator or coach, but it will never admit it.

Yeah I heard people talking about this on Yahoo Sports Radio this morning saying if you aren't going to give Penn State the Death Penalty here then it's probably not ever on the table again for anything in the NCAA.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah I heard people talking about this on Yahoo Sports Radio this morning saying if you aren't going to give Penn State the Death Penalty here then it's probably not ever on the table again for anything in the NCAA.

SMU had been on probation many times before the administration conspired to continue prohibited payoffs to players. It was as if it was thumbing its nose at the NCAA. PSU did not have such a prior record.

If the NCAA's main beef was institutional integrity (it has no legal jurisdiction in the matter), then it should have gone after other aspects of the schools athletic department, not just football. But as we all know, football and basketball are the net positive revenue generating programs. Few would care if the fencing team was given the death penalty.

[Boges]

SMU had been on probation many times before the administration conspired to continue prohibited payoffs to players. It was as if it was thumbing its nose at the NCAA. PSU did not have such a prior record.

If the NCAA's main beef was institutional integrity (it has no legal jurisdiction in the matter), then it should have gone after other aspects of the schools athletic department, not just football. But as we all know, football and basketball are the net positive revenue generating programs. Few would care if the fencing team was given the death penalty.

Imagine if they punished Duke Basketball for the actions of the Lacrosse team.

The institutional integrity was centred completely around the Football team. The reason the little boy diddling was ignored was that the bad press might have cost the football program money, it's clearly the cash cow.

The Small 12, sorry the Big 10: The conference PSU plays in piled on another $13 million fine today as well.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/07/big-ten-more-penalties-penn-state/1

[bush_cheney2004]

...The Small 12, sorry the Big 10: The conference PSU plays in piled on another $13 million fine today as well.

That's mice nuts in the overall scheme of things....TV and cable revenue is now worth billions of dollars. The NCAA will not be returning any of the money from Paterno's 100 vacated wins!

[bleeding heart]

The NCAA will not be returning any of the money from Paterno's 100 vacated wins!

Ha!

Well done.

[blueblood]

That's not the point. They don't have to raise tuition for the students for it to impact them. Students provide money to general revenue for their education. One of the expenses that's going to come out of the general revenue is this fine. Therefore, the university won't have as much money for students classes, research, and facilities.

I'm not a Penn State fan. I couldn't possibly care less about college ball.

What seems pretty clear to me though is that this will impact students negatively. Students that had nothing to do with what happened, so I don't exactly think it's fair to them.

Moreover, Penn State's program is probably going to be affected negatively anyway. People entering school now are not going to want to be associated with that institution. I bet their enrolment drops.

Anyway, the fine by punishing the institution is punishing the students. It's not fair to them at all.

Those criminally responsible should be held criminally responsible. This kangaroo court BS shouldn't be allowed.

This is a message to other schools that covering up child sex abuse will not be tolerated. Good on the NCAA for nailing them. You have to also realize that there were quite a few people who knew about this and did nothing.

The students won't suffer, if anything, tuition will drop like a rock in order to get kids to go there in the first place.

This hurts the boosters who were around since Sandusky and could very well have been in the loop. Those boosters are seeing their "investment" get annihilated. The NCAA won't lose out on this at all, some other school(s) will get the players and prospects and some other school will fill in the void. Remember SMU?

It's ncaa's league and they can run it as they see fit.

This is far harsher than what SMU got. No playoffs and bowl games for 4 years, nobody in their right mind is going to play for Penn state.

This isn't about punishing kids, it's about sending a message.

[bush_cheney2004]

...This isn't about punishing kids, it's about sending a message.

Yea, and the message is to not stop the NCAA's television contract revenue, ticket sales revenue, memorabilia revenue, conference game revenue, etc.

[blueblood]

Yea, and the message is to not stop the NCAA's television contract revenue, ticket sales revenue, memorabilia revenue, conference game revenue, etc.

It is similar to what HP did in canning it's CEO for running around on it's wife and it going public. The NCAA doesn't want it's brand to be associated with child sex acts. They washed their hands with Penn state.

Revenues won't be hurt, you have positive media relations by slamming the Penn state institution for harboring a pedophile, and most importantly there is a bidding war for the new playoff format. The NCAA is laughing.

[kimmy]

Yea, and the message is to not stop the NCAA's television contract revenue, ticket sales revenue, memorabilia revenue, conference game revenue, etc.

...which just happens to be the reason Penn State covered it up in the first place.

I don't care if NCAA's motives are cynical, it's the right thing to do anyway. Penn State covered up the abuse because they were afraid of losing money and wins and Bowl game appearances. There's not a more fitting punishment than taking money and wins and Bowl game appearances from them as punishment.

I just think it's too bad financial regulators won't deal with renegade banks as harshly; I think a 4 year "time out" for the banks involved in the LIBOR conspiracy would be a nice start.

Although students can change schools, they will sometimes lose credits that are non-transferable or they may even be turned down at other schools for lack of space.

The kind of student athletes who are that concerned about the Bowl-game ban aren't going to be turned down by other schools or stressed about a few credits.

The kind of student athletes who stressed about their credits probably aren't going to transfer because of the Bowl-game ban.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

...which just happens to be the reason Penn State covered it up in the first place.

Well...if it was good enough for the Vatican....

I don't care if NCAA's motives are cynical, it's the right thing to do anyway. Penn State covered up the abuse because they were afraid of losing money and wins and Bowl game appearances. There's not a more fitting punishment than taking money and wins and Bowl game appearances from them as punishment.

The NCAA jumped the gun, forgetting due process and their own rules to get this done ASAP. They didn't even conduct an independent investigation. Plus there are criminal proceedings still to come.

Penn State should invoke their own "death penalty" just to spite the cynical NCAA. Shut the program down.

[wyly]

they got off easy, if the program had been suspended entirely for a few seasons or even permanently they would've had little to complain about and they know it...the administration protecting a football programs reputation instead of protecting kids from rape, by conspiring to protect sandusky they knowingly enabled more rapes to take place... seriously how anyone suggest that NCAA were not justified...

[cybercoma]

-k

...which just happens to be the reason Penn State covered it up in the first place.

I don't care if NCAA's motives are cynical, it's the right thing to do anyway. Penn State covered up the abuse because they were afraid of losing money and wins and Bowl game appearances. There's not a more fitting punishment than taking money and wins and Bowl game appearances from them as punishment.

I just think it's too bad financial regulators won't deal with renegade banks as harshly; I think a 4 year "time out" for the banks involved in the LIBOR conspiracy would be a nice start.

The kind of student athletes who are that concerned about the Bowl-game ban aren't going to be turned down by other schools or stressed about a few credits.

The kind of student athletes who stressed about their credits probably aren't going to transfer because of the Bowl-game ban.

Why should the students be inconvenienced at all? Aren't there courts in the US for a reason? Is it not up to them to handle these issues?

[wyly]

Why should the students be inconvenienced at all? Aren't there courts in the US for a reason? Is it not up to them to handle these issues?

if a local pub gets closed down for repeatedly serving alcohol to minors why should the other adult patrons be inconvenienced? it's the same situation here the students aren't being punished, the school athletic program is...

sports associations have their own charter of rules they don't answer to courts for their internal discipline...Mexico found all of it's soccer teams banned from international competition back in 1990 including it's world cup squad because a youth squad cheated by using overage players...FIFA punished the national organization for cheating not the players...In Canada soccer had a controversy regarding Muslim girls being ejected from games for wearing head coverings, outside of soccer this is a human rights issue but inside soccer it was a violation of safety rules/dress code...civil courts stayed out of the issue and FIFA has since resolved the issue...

Edited July 24, 2012 by wyly

[blueblood]

they got off easy, if the program had been suspended entirely for a few seasons or even permanently they would've had little to complain about and they know it...the administration protecting a football programs reputation instead of protecting kids from rape, by conspiring to protect sandusky they knowingly enabled more rapes to take place... seriously how anyone suggest that NCAA were not justified...

Some sports writers have suggested it's worse than the death penalty because of the zero bowl games and big ten playoffs for four years in addition to the clause that allows the Penn state players to jump ship. Not only that, the scholarships being taken away. This team is crippled for I'm guessing the next decade at least. It's going to be very hard to recruit players to go to this school.

[guyser]

This team is crippled for I'm guessing the next decade at least. It's going to be very hard to recruit players to go to this school.

SMU still hasnt recovered. Been what, 2 or 3 decades?