Hey Toronto has made International News.

[Boges]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/17/world/canada-shooting/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

(CNN) -- A shooting at a house party in Toronto killed two people and left 19 others wounded, many of the injuries a result of the ensuing commotion, authorities said Tuesday.

It's unclear what prompted the altercation that led to the shooting late Monday, Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair said.

The injured included an infant under age 3. The number of casualties is preliminary and may go up, according to authorities.

Blair described it as an unprecedented incident.

"The level of violence is something that we have never experienced and right now we're working very hard to ensure that we provide all the assistance that we can to the people who have been injured," he said. "We're working fully to identify the people responsible to get them off the street, to get their guns off the streets and bring them before the courts."

So what is it? Is it because this was in a poor area of Toronto? (Apparently the BBQ was in a subsidized townhouse complex) Is it because City Council didn't ban bullets last week like resident communist Adam Vaughan wanted? Or is it because there are laws against using hard drugs, allowing gang violence like this to proliferate.

I suspect this will be met with a lot of apathy because it wasn't in a mall like the Eaton's Centre shooting. Innocent people were injured though.

I don't have the answers. I don't think anyone here does. Toronto is a relatively safe city but there are places where it's not so safe. Events like this defy explanations unless of course you want it to fulfill some kind of agenda you have. (ei Gun Control, Drug Prohibition, Poverty)

Edited July 17, 2012 by Boges

[Black Dog]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/17/world/canada-shooting/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

So what is it? Is it because this was in a poor area of Toronto? (Apparently the BBQ was in a subsidized townhouse complex) Is it because City Council didn't ban bullets last week like resident communist Adam Vaughan wanted? Or is it because there are laws against using hard drugs, allowing gang violence like this to proliferate.

I suspect this will be met with a lot of apathy because it wasn't in a mall like the Eaton's Centre shooting. Innocent people were injured though.

I'm chalking this up to the fact that it was downtown, which as we all know is not a safe place for families.

Wait, what?

I don't have the answers. I don't think anyone here does. Toronto is a relatively safe city but there are places where it's not so safe. Events like this defy explanations unless of course you want it to fulfill some kind of agenda you have. (ei Gun Control, Drug Prohibition, Poverty)

That's silly. Of course there's an explanation, but it's complex and involves all those things that you are sneering at as being a part of someone's agenda and presumably not real problems.

[cybercoma]

ban alcohol

[Boges]

ban alcohol

How about we ban Barbecues after 10:30pm on Weekdays.

[cybercoma]

How about we ban Barbecues after 10:30pm on Weekdays.

Good idea. What else can we do?

Ban alcohol.

Ban BBQs after 10:30pm (why stop at weekdays?).

Ban guns.

What else can we ban?

How about install CCTV in residential neighbourhoods.

Edited July 17, 2012 by cybercoma

[Boges]

Good idea. What else can we do?

Ban alcohol.

Ban BBQs after 10:30pm (why stop at weekdays?).

Ban guns.

What else can we ban?

How about install CCTV in residential neighbourhoods.

It works in Great Britain right?

[wyly]

just a guess but drugs are probably behind this, prohibition just doesn't work and only encourages gang violence, this is no different than the alcohol prohibition that was rejected for the same reasons, it doesn't work and promotes crime...prohibition=crime=money=violence...

[Topaz]

I've listened to many reports on this shooting and the commmuities must start the process of stopping this from happening. What has been said on these reports is that young males, who are in gangs are behind this. Even though being in a gang is against the law now, they don't care and will do what they want to do. McGuinty has called for a meeting with the mayor and the police and some leaders in the community concerned, to try and head off anyone else getting killed. I think the border inspection needs to be taken a look at and see where the guns and the drugs are coming in. The importers of these drugs and guns has to have money, so the authories need to do more of a job to find out WHO? IF it takes a huge reward offered to get information on theses gangs then police should offer it.

[capricorn]

McGuinty has called for a meeting with the mayor and the police and some leaders in the community concerned, to try and head off anyone else getting killed.

Oh boy, right there that could spell trouble in a whole lot of ways.

“I took the opportunity this morning to speak with (Toronto Police) Chief (Bill) Blair and Toronto Mayor Rob Ford,” McGuinty said after touring a factory that makes brake pads.

“I invited them to join me in the not-too-distant future to determine what it is we have in place by way of measures that might act to prevent these kinds of tragedies from unfolding.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/17/premier-to-gather-top-law-enforcement-in-wake-of-scarborough-shooting

(my emphasis)

Is McGuinty serious or just running off at the mouth. First of all, you cannot totally prevent nutjobs from opening fire on each other or innocents. Obviously, the measures that are in place are not preventing these tragedies. What should be looked at is whether the present measures are ineffective/outdated and/or contributing factors and what different measures need to be put in place to minimize future occurrences.

[Boges]

Oh boy, right there that could spell trouble in a whole lot of ways.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/17/premier-to-gather-top-law-enforcement-in-wake-of-scarborough-shooting

(my emphasis)

Is McGuinty serious or just running off at the mouth. First of all, you cannot totally prevent nutjobs from opening fire on each other or innocents. Obviously, the measures that are in place are not preventing these tragedies. What should be looked at is whether the present measures are ineffective/outdated and/or contributing factors and what different measures need to be put in place to minimize future occurrences.

McGuinty is going to send the shooters to Sarnia at a cost to the Ontario taxpayer of $190 million.

Wait that's another story sorry?

[Argus]

Good idea. What else can we do?

Stay away from large gatherings of Black people.

[gunrutz]

The fact that this took place on a weekday at a time when most of us are working or sleeping to be ready for work should say a lot.

But that won't matter, someone will try to go after the guns, it's always the tools fault and not the tools that use them.

[WWWTT]

just a guess but drugs are probably behind this, prohibition just doesn't work and only encourages gang violence, this is no different than the alcohol prohibition that was rejected for the same reasons, it doesn't work and promotes crime...prohibition=crime=money=violence...

Not according to Fantino.

I read his statement about this shooting.In it he writes two sentences of condolences for the victims and another 12 sentences promoting conservative policies!

Fantino is using the deaths/victims of innocent people to promote conservative policy.

How any one ever gave this guy a job is freekin beyond me.And how this guy can ever sleep at night is also beyond me!

WWWTT

[Guest Derek L]

It works in Great Britain right?

I still think we should consider banning all forms of violence………….

[Guest Derek L]

Hey, why don't we ban these guys:

[cybercoma]

Did they say it was gang related? Or are you just assuming because one of the victims was black?

Maybe it is, but I haven't seen that reported yet.

[gunrutz]

Not according to Fantino.

I read his statement about this shooting.In it he writes two sentences of condolences for the victims and another 12 sentences promoting conservative policies!

Fantino is using the deaths/victims of innocent people to promote conservative policy.

How any one ever gave this guy a job is freekin beyond me.And how this guy can ever sleep at night is also beyond me!

WWWTT

This is ridiculous, if you had s shred of honesty you would be saying the same thing of every left wing politician who cried for more useless gun control law every time someone was hurt or on every anniversary of some shooting, every year, just as Adam Vaughn was doing today, along with any number of other members of the ban brigade. Dancing on the graves of victims, some of them have made a living out of it, so please spare us.

[gunrutz]

Did they say it was gang related? Or are you just assuming because one of the victims was black?

Maybe it is, but I haven't seen that reported yet.

Careful, don't want to hurt those gang members feelings.

It's funny how quickly you would say attack the government for fixing an election without evidence but then come to the defense of all the gang members who perhaps none of committed this crime, perhaps that sort of attitude is part of the problem. Stop worrying about how these 'poor' people came to be in gangs, and what the rest of us did wrong to make them that way, this is a great country with opportunity for anyone, if you can't make it here you can't make it anywhere, lets worry about what we can do to rid us of these vermin. Gangs or not.

[cybercoma]

I'm defending people from being accused of being in gangs before it has been reported. They may very well be from gangs, but if that had been confirmed the media would be all over it already, one would think. I'm also underscoring the racial bias of assuming that it's gang related because it involves black people.

I'm not going to indulge in the your off-topic trolling.

Edited July 18, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

Did they say it was gang related? Or are you just assuming because one of the victims was black?

Maybe it is, but I haven't seen that reported yet.

The police/media has not confirmed as much yet, but:

Police worried Toronto shooting will spur retaliation

Toronto police are concerned about possible retaliation in the wake of one of the worst incidents of gun violence in the city’s history, which left two people dead and another 23 wounded.

Fearing retaliation isn’t indicative of gang involvement, but the police didn’t mention a concern for retaliation with the aftermath of the Jun Lin killing………

It is not clear if gangs were involved in the shootings, but Chief Bill Blair said police are investigating that possibility.

As you said, yet to be confirmed.......but:

Blair said the homicide squad, the guns and gangs unit, the intelligence services urban gang unit and divisional policing are all involved in the investigation

If it turns out that neither of the shooters had links to gangs, I’ll gladly retract my opinion and acknowledge for 1 months time in my status that you were correct.

As to the skin color of the shooters, I never alluded to them being black, red, yellow, white or purple…………As to the video I referenced, I simply searched Toronto gangsters on both Google and you tube……….this video, with the self proclaimed “gangsters” and their prohibited firearm(s), that never would have been legally obtained in Canada, was one of the results.

Again, to further expound on your deemed issue of skin color, I live in Greater Vancouver, hence have an understanding that “gangsters” come from all walks of life………..Perhaps if the shooting had of been in Vancouver, said search results might have resulted in a “Indio-Canadian” theme video, or Montreal white bikers……….Does it mater?

[Guest Derek L]

And an update:

Police suspect Toronto shooting that left 2 dead, 24 wounded was gang related Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Toronto+multiple+shooting+leaves+dead+several+injured/6943285/story.html#ixzz20wk6ez1r

[Boges]

Not according to Fantino.

I read his statement about this shooting.In it he writes two sentences of condolences for the victims and another 12 sentences promoting conservative policies!

Fantino is using the deaths/victims of innocent people to promote conservative policy.

How any one ever gave this guy a job is freekin beyond me.And how this guy can ever sleep at night is also beyond me!

WWWTT

Yeah and Adam Vaughan went after Mayor Ford, blaming a hiring freeze the police's response. Using tragedy to score political points isn't above either side of the political spectrum.

[Black Dog]

"Gang-related" is a pretty vague term. Any group of wannabes with a Glock and a bag of weed can call themselves a gang.

[cybercoma]

The gangland stuff is just fear mongering. Maybe it is "gang related," but that doesn't change the fact that violent crime in Canada is at a 40 year low.

[Boges]

The gangland stuff is just fear mongering. Maybe it is "gang related," but that doesn't change the fact that violent crime in Canada is at a 40 year low.

As I said in the OP, Toronto is a relatively safe city . . BUT . . . some places in the city aren't so safe.

That being said there has been an uptick in violence this year. The reason? who knows? It certainly isn't because people are able to legally own guns and purchase ammunition.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Boges