Congressman: American schools should be modeled after madrassas

Argus · July 7, 2012

Compared to whom, please.

I think you'll find more intelligent conversation if you put known trolls on the ignore list.

bush_cheney2004 · July 8, 2012

Compared to whom, please.

Take your pick...OECD rankings seem to be a favorite around here.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/01/27/oecd-quality-of-care-data-how-canada-ranks/

Canuckistani · July 8, 2012

Take your pick...OECD rankings seem to be a favorite around here.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/01/27/oecd-quality-of-care-data-how-canada-ranks/

Well, you're right. According to WHO, we're #30 and the US is #38. We do it for 10% of GDP, the US does worse for 18% of GDP. So arguing for the US system doesn't make much sense. We should look to France and other European nations to see what we could learn from them. But our discussion just always gets dragged into us vs the idiots down south. We've got US insurance companies just slathering at the mouth to move into Canada, right wing nut bars that want to sell our precious healthcare system down the road. And it seems, we get Americans coming onto Canadians Forums to tell us what our problems are. I don't get that. I wonder if Canadians do the same thing on American forums. Wouldn't get that either. We debate American politics because they have such a huge impact on us, but I would never presume to go on an American forum and tell them what's wrong with them. That's for them to figure out. I hope they do.

bush_cheney2004 · July 8, 2012

Well, you're right. According to WHO, we're #30 and the US is #38. We do it for 10% of GDP, the US does worse for 18% of GDP. So arguing for the US system doesn't make much sense.

Sure it does...the US "system" costs more and Americans get more....more capacity...more technology...faster diagnostics...more pharma too. The US system is #1 in several categories....Canada's system in #1 in nothing except longest wait times.

We should look to France and other European nations to see what we could learn from them. But our discussion just always gets dragged into us vs the idiots down south. We've got US insurance companies just slathering at the mouth to move into Canada, right wing nut bars that want to sell our precious healthcare system down the road.

Then stop obsessing on the USA. The Americans are smart enough not to duplicate CommieCare from Canada.

And it seems, we get Americans coming onto Canadians Forums to tell us what our problems are. I don't get that. I wonder if Canadians do the same thing on American forums. Wouldn't get that either.

This "Canadian forum" is hosted near Houston, Texas and runs on an American forum engine. Without American topics, it would be boring as hell, just like Canadian elections. Some Canadians can't even define a national identity or a position without referring to the "U.S." or "American style".

We debate American politics because they have such a huge impact on us, but I would never presume to go on an American forum and tell them what's wrong with them. That's for them to figure out. I hope they do.

Nonsense....some Canadians live their lives with their noses plastered to the proverbial one-way border mirror, always gazing at what the Americans are doing. Most Americans don't know about Canada, don't care about Canada, and don't care that they don't know.

Edited July 8, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

Canuckistani · July 8, 2012

Nonsense....some Canadians live their lives with their noses plastered to the proverbial one-way border mirror, always gazing at what the Americans are doing. Most Americans don't know about Canada, don't care about Canada, and don't care that they don't know.

So you're the American version of these Canadians? Got it. What is it that makes you always gaze at what we're doing and tell us how poorly we're doing it? Not enough to keep you interested at home? As you say, most Americans don't know about Canada - why have you taken on the mission of trying to convert us? I would have thought your messianic impulse is sorely needed at home, what with the cultural war you've got going there, the commie Kenyan president you have subverting your most cherished values etc. Shouldn't you be fighting the good fight at home?

Edited July 8, 2012 by Canuckistani

bush_cheney2004 · July 8, 2012

So you're the American version of these Canadians? Got it. What is it that makes you always gaze at what we're doing and tell us how poorly we're doing it? Not enough to keep you interested at home?

You're new around here...suffice it to say that I want to appear as obsessed about Canada's coniptions about America just to demonstrate how silly it is. If it weren't for the constant drone of Americana around here, I would have flitted away years ago, because Canada is really quite boring in comparison! That's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't know why the U.S. gong show dominates your existence, but it seemingly does.

As you say, most Americans don't know about Canada - why have you taken on the mission of trying to convert us? I would have thought your messianic impulse is sorely needed at home, what with the cultural war you've got going there, the commie Kenyan president you have subverting your most cherished values etc. Shouldn't you be fighting the good fight at home?

No way....it's all good. Like the Canadian man said, "America is a service not available in Canada".

Edited July 8, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

Michael Hardner · July 8, 2012

You're new around here...suffice it to say that I want to appear as obsessed about Canada's coniptions about America just to demonstrate how silly it is.

All things being equal, there should be about 10X the number of items of interest south of the border than north so we seem to be doing OK.

cybercoma · July 8, 2012

The Tea Party was begun as a rebellion against the way the rich corporate interests got huge bailouts of taxpayer money. Since most of those involved weren't particularly bright the movement was quickly co-opted by the wealthy, and now angrily lobbies for whatever will benefit the rich at the expense of themselves (yes, they really ARE that stupid). They're unrepentantly religious and believe in literal interpretations of the original US Constitution, not unlike the Taliban, which are also originalists. In fact, the Tea Party and the Taliban have much in common. Most of the Tea Party have a sort of Daniel Boone mythology where they long for the days when people were alone on the frontier with just their trusty musket to take care of all their needs. They're not unlike the Taliban in that respect, who long to bring society back to the seventh century, when Islam was supreme. They're anti-government and anti-society. Their religious beliefs are as close to mainstream Christianity as the Taliban's are of mainstream Islam, which is to say, they really aren't Christians, they just think they are. They're a herd of brainless, mindless angry sheep easily manipulated by the smirking media experts, and spin doctors hired by the likes of the Koch brothers, and their success is sustained by money from the elites and the general political ignorance and malaise of the American people.

Harsh, but every word of this is absolutely true.

cybercoma · July 8, 2012

Public medical care is certainly sustainable. I don't get you people who think it isn't. It's CHEAPER than privately run medical care! There is, in the end, only one payer, and that is the ordinary citizen. His money goes to fund medical services, regardless of whether it's public or private. The difference in private medical care is you have to fund the care, plus huge profits for all involved, so of course, it costs much more. I get that private industry usually is more efficient than government. But that's not the case here. Every study has shown that there is more administrative cost, more red tape, in private medical care than public medical care. And it's inherently inefficient since in order to compete, every hospital has to have every piece of expensive high-tech gear, even if it's only actually operating 20% of the time. I'm not suggesting ours is anywhere close to perfect, but it's not as wasteful of money and resources as the American private medical care system.

If Medicair in the US is in trouble it's simply because the Republicans have starved the federal treasury of cash while implementing tax code changes which allow the wealthy corporations to drastically reduce their taxes.

People also don't seem to understand that a single-payer system, like we have in Canada, is different from socialized medicine. In Britain they have socialized medicine, where not only is there a single-payer system, but the government runs all of the institutions and employs all of the doctors. That's not the case in Canada. We have a single payer for healthcare, but the delivery of healthcare in Canada is mostly private. Doctors are self-employed and many of the hospitals are run by the third sector, while prescriptions, dentistry, and vision are all paid out of pocket. This nonsense about Canada's "socialist healthcare system" is the result of baffling ignorance about our system(s).

cybercoma · July 8, 2012

Of course, to us liberals, this is typically hilarious

I don't mean to be a downer, but I don't find it hilarious at all. I find it troubling and it actually upsets me that lives are going to be ruined thanks to complete idiocy.

bush_cheney2004 · July 8, 2012

All things being equal, there should be about 10X the number of items of interest south of the border than north so we seem to be doing OK.

But that's the thing...all things are not equal, and you already know that.

cybercoma · July 8, 2012

Yes, the radical lefty Argus gets all his news and opinions from the CBC!

cybercoma · July 8, 2012

You want to mock Ayn Rand, while the father of your ideology is Karl Marx, and its real-life implementers are Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Guevara, Mao, Hitler, and Kim Il-Sung. Your slander doesn't work so well when the tables are turned.

You clearly don't know the first thing about Marx or what he wrote. Seriously, Hitler implemented Marxism?? You know Hitler was up against the Communists in Germany, right? Not just up against them, he was violently opposed to them.

And all those other top-down "Communist" projects would have been strongly opposed by Marx for being forced upon people and skipping stages. Communism for Marx had to develop from the bottom by the people out of the capitalist crises and through a violent revolution, resulting in the elimination of classes. None of that happened in those regimes. In fact, it's clear that you're not really aware of the differences between Socialism and Communism.

Michael Hardner · July 8, 2012

But that's the thing...all things are not equal, and you already know that.

You're right ! There's a lot less interest here paid to American items of amusement than their could be.

Michael Hardner · July 8, 2012

I don't mean to be a downer, but I don't find it hilarious at all. I find it troubling and it actually upsets me that lives are going to be ruined thanks to complete idiocy.

The best way to address this ridiculous type of politics is to rightly ridicule it.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

You clearly don't know the first thing about Marx or what he wrote. Seriously, Hitler implemented Marxism?? You know Hitler was up against the Communists in Germany, right? Not just up against them, he was violently opposed to them.

And all those other top-down "Communist" projects would have been strongly opposed by Marx for being forced upon people and skipping stages. Communism for Marx had to develop from the bottom by the people out of the capitalist crises and through a violent revolution, resulting in the elimination of classes. None of that happened in those regimes. In fact, it's clear that you're not really aware of the differences between Socialism and Communism.

Ah, the good 'ol "Hitler fought the Soviets!" argumentation as "proof" that Nazism isn't a leftist ideology. Takes me back to elementary school, good times. I already differentiated between Nazism and communism, where the primary difference is that Nazism isn't internationalist and is grounded in racism, whereas communism is internationalist. The ties that bind them are much stronger, however, than what separates them.

"You don't know anything about communism or Karl Marx" isn't really a compelling argument, you know. Your defensiveness over the truth being told about communism reveals that you are sympathetic to communism, which certainly doesn't come as a surprise to anyone.

bush_cheney2004 · July 8, 2012

You're right ! There's a lot less interest here paid to American items of amusement than their could be.

That's the irony...your silly CRTC rules strive to keep the cultural hegemon out of Canada, while you and others seek more and more. I guess it's like any child when you tell them they can't have/do something.

bush_cheney2004 · July 8, 2012

The best way to address this ridiculous type of politics is to rightly ridicule it.

I agree 100%....there is no shortage of things to ridicule 'round here!

kraychik · July 8, 2012

I agree 100%....there is no shortage of things to ridicule 'round here!

Absolutely true. I will collect more and more of these things for my signature as time goes on. In only a few days I've already collected these gems below.

cybercoma · July 8, 2012

Ah, the good 'ol "Hitler fought the Soviets!"

I wasn't talking about the Soviets. I'm talking about the KPD in Germany, which was outlawed by Hitler in 1933 after he took power and whose leaders were purged by Stalin or sent to the GULAG while they were in exile.

argumentation as "proof" that Nazism isn't a leftist ideology.

I never made any left-right claim about the Nazis. What I was pointing out is your assertion that Hitler implemented Marxism is entirely wrong. He murdered Communists and outlawed their party. As you sit here and switch between "Marxist implementer" and "leftist ideology," you continue to show your bias. You acknowledge variation on the left in one breath, then turn around and blur it all together. Either you're well aware of the differences and are lacking intellectual integrity, or you're nothing more than a partisan blowhard that wants to just post blanket criticisms of everything to the left of your far-right position.

Your defensiveness over the truth being told about communism reveals that you are sympathetic to communism, which certainly doesn't come as a surprise to anyone.

I have absolutely no tolerance for Communism. It's a threat to peace and security. I'm a social democrat. Again, while you acknowledge that there is variation on the Left, you seem to be completely lost when it comes to distinguishing between liberals, social democrats, democratic socialists, socialists, and communists.

Moreover, you're suffering from the effect of having an extreme position; therefore, you believe all moderate positions are extreme because they're so far away from your stance. You quite simply cannot see that you are the outlier. For that reason, it's quite clear that any conversation with you will be fruitless. You're going to run around the forum spouting dogma and buzzwords, while broad-brushing everyone that doesn't fit within your narrow political perspective.

You're as much a caricature of the Right as socialist is a caricature of the Left here. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both of you were the same person running with polar-opposite gimmicks.

Edited July 8, 2012 by cybercoma

bleeding heart · July 8, 2012

Either you're well aware of the differences and are lacking intellectual integrity, or you're nothing more than a partisan blowhard that wants to just post blanket criticisms of everything to the left of your far-right position.

It's not plainly an either/or.

I have absolutely no tolerance for Communism. It's a threat to peace and security. I'm a social democrat. Again, while you acknowledge that there is variation on the Left, you seem to be completely lost when it comes to distinguishing between liberals, social democrats, democratic socialists, socialists, and communists.

Absolutely, thank you. The number of leftists who are actually "communists" is trivial, irrelevant. We might as well be blaming "conservatives" for the ridiculous neo-nazis...whom most conservatives rightly despise.

(Oh, wait...these arch-conservatives are leftists, according to our esteemed poster...I forgot!)

You're as much a caricature of the Right as socialist is a caricature of the Left here. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if both of you were the same person running with polar-opposite gimmicks.

The comparison is obvious, isn't it? I made the same connection myself. But I don't at all believe they're the same poster; few people would undertake the discipline to write in such distinctively different styles.

We had some nameless right-winger here once, pretending to be a radical Islamist: he'd write things like, "I have three strong sons, and am teaching them jihad against you infidels!", and so on. But he didn't last, as such arttifice takes actual effort.

DogOnPorch · July 8, 2012

I have to agree with cybercoma (gasp) re: Nazis being 'Right Wing'...no matter the 'Socialism' in Nazi. Their very marching songs, like Horst Wessel, mention fighting the Communists in the streets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst-Wessel-Lied

bleeding heart · July 8, 2012

I have to agree with cybercoma (gasp) re: Nazis being 'Right Wing'...no matter the 'Socialism' in Nazi. Their very marching songs, like Horst Wessel, mention fighting the Communists in the streets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst-Wessel-Lied

Just so. And hell, it's no insult to conservatives; conservatives hate the Nazis, so there's no shame, no guilt by association.

Similarly, Ol' lefty bleeding heart isn't taking the rap for Lenin; I have always said that Lenin was a terrible man. A tyrant, and a killer. But it doesn't follow that he must, then, have been a right-winger!

Such arguments are silly, an attempt to "purify" the very history of one's political leanings. A fool's game, as they all have plenty of skeletons and boogeymen.

DogOnPorch · July 8, 2012

Just so. And hell, it's no insult to conservatives; conservatives hate the Nazis, so there's no shame, no guilt by association.

There is no comparison in Canada. Harper isn't Heydrich no matter what some claim.

Similarly, Ol' lefty bleeding heart isn't taking the rap for Lenin; I have always said that Lenin was a terrible man. A tyrant, and a killer. But it doesn't follow that he must, then, have been a right-winger!

Canadian leftism isn't the NKVD. Again...no comparison.

Such arguments are silly, an attempt to "purify" the very history of one's political leanings. A fool's game, as they all have plenty of skeletons and boogeymen.

History is history. Many wish to make it relative (especially the Arab-Israeli War...lol) like everything else...but it isn't. There's no alternative outcome to Stalingrad.

Edited July 8, 2012 by DogOnPorch

Argus · July 8, 2012

Absolutely true. I will collect more and more of these things for my signature as time goes on. In only a few days I've already collected these gems below.

Well, that's ONE way to ensure there's at least some intelligent content in your posts.