Gay Pride OR Anti Israeli rally?

[Canuckistani]

I think using the term Israeli Apartheid (referring to Palestine) is valid political comment. I also personally have said that Isreal seems to be following a policy of Lebensraum. Both of those are easily labelled as antisemitic, but I disagree. The Israelis aren't Nazis, but they are emulating a specific policy of Nazism, and for the same reason - our Volk deserves it. What's happening in the West Bank isn't the same as South African apartheid, but again, there are similarities.

All this is different than if the protesters were chanting "kill the Jews" or such.

But, I think Gay Pride is shooting itself in the foot by allowing these people to march. Didn't know Gay Pride was about politics. They should just make it about gay acceptance. They should also keep out the exhibitionists who just want to shock people - that's no way to get acceptance. There's lots of gays that are against that bullshit too, and realize it just makes them seem like drama queens. (The dykes too)

[Jack Weber]

I think using the term Israeli Apartheid (referring to Palestine) is valid political comment. I also personally have said that Isreal seems to be following a policy of Lebensraum. Both of those are easily labelled as antisemitic, but I disagree. The Israelis aren't Nazis, but they are emulating a specific policy of Nazism, and for the same reason - our Volk deserves it. What's happening in the West Bank isn't the same as South African apartheid, but again, there are similarities.

All this is different than if the protesters were chanting "kill the Jews" or such.

But, I think Gay Pride is shooting itself in the foot by allowing these people to march. Didn't know Gay Pride was about politics. They should just make it about gay acceptance. They should also keep out the exhibitionists who just want to shock people - that's no way to get acceptance. There's lots of gays that are against that bullshit too, and realize it just makes them seem like drama queens. (The dykes too)

1.Then perhaps the phraseology is incorrect??

Apartheid was a race based government sanctioned form of bigotry that had more inclination to Jim Crowism in the US than NAZI Germany...Distasteful,for sure,but there is a distinction...

And as for the 2nd paragraph...

2.You are 100% correct...

[Wild Bill]

But, I think Gay Pride is shooting itself in the foot by allowing these people to march. Didn't know Gay Pride was about politics. They should just make it about gay acceptance. They should also keep out the exhibitionists who just want to shock people - that's no way to get acceptance. There's lots of gays that are against that bullshit too, and realize it just makes them seem like drama queens. (The dykes too)

This is a good point. Gay Pride should not allow itself to become associated with any particular political viewpoint.

If nothing else, it dilutes their message. Worse yet, through coverage in the mainstream media people might start to assume that all gays are of a certain political stripe. From there it is but a small step to make the assumption that if you want to support gays you have to support those same politics!

We have seen the plight of American blacks who dare to be Republican. So we really want that sort of thing here in Canada? Where people assume what party you vote for by the colour of your face? Where if you are gay yet vote Tory you would be ostracized by the gay community?

Bigotry comes in many forms.

[Mr.Canada]

I'm sure the people who made this decision would be interested in seeing your video footage,

We work with one of the leading Jewish groups in the city and have been providing video footage of Pride events for a few years now. Do you think all this questioning of the motives of Pride by the government officials, the public at large and news agencies is pure coincidence? Please don't be so naive, we've been pushing for quite some time now. Years in fact and they're finally starting to see we have a point.

[TheNewTeddy]

I don't even see your point.

[Moonlight Graham]

Stop fronting for your Gays Gone Wild in Public porn series!!!

[Moonlight Graham]

I'll never forget the blatant hand jobs and pinching of one slender mans penis by another bigger hairier man.

You saw them do hand jobs in public??? As in, penis out for the world to see? That's definitely going to far. Did you show that to state officials? What did they do about it?

[Melanie_]

We work with one of the leading Jewish groups in the city and have been providing video footage of Pride events for a few years now. Do you think all this questioning of the motives of Pride by the government officials, the public at large and news agencies is pure coincidence? Please don't be so naive, we've been pushing for quite some time now. Years in fact and they're finally starting to see we have a point.

Please explain what you see as the motives of Pride.

[Melanie_]

Please explain what you see as the motives of Pride.

Never mind, I found this...

Homosexuals are sexual deviants who made the choice to stick their penises into another mans anus. Where the poop comes out. These people are mentally ill and need to be cured. If children stick things into their anuses we would take them to the psychologist, for adults who do that in Canada we throw them a government funded parade.

[Wild Bill]

Never mind, I found this...

Yep, if someone says something you don't want to agree with just put ridiculous words in his mouth and treat him as if he actually said them!

[GostHacked]

This crap again? Did we not have a huge thread on this thing last year??

[Black Dog]

ut, I think Gay Pride is shooting itself in the foot by allowing these people to march. Didn't know Gay Pride was about politics. They should just make it about gay acceptance. They should also keep out the exhibitionists who just want to shock people - that's no way to get acceptance. There's lots of gays that are against that bullshit too, and realize it just makes them seem like drama queens. (The dykes too)

Gay Pride isn't about acceptance. If it was, it'd be called "Gay Acceptance." Politics and exhibitionism are a fairly important element of the event.

[Melanie_]

Yep, if someone says something you don't want to agree with just put ridiculous words in his mouth and treat him as if he actually said them!

They were his words, just in another thread. But I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt… perhaps his perspective has changed since he wrote those words. Mr. Canada, could you please let us know which of these statements you stand behind? (bolding mine)

Homosexuals are sexual deviants who made the choice to stick their penises into another mans anus. Where the poop comes out. These people are mentally ill and need to be cured.

Or, from the beginning of this thread...

I am all for gay pride as long as it is done in a tasteful manner with participants adhering to all of our laws. Gays should indeed to treated the same as straight people.

And I’m still curious to know what you see as the motives of the Pride movement.

[Mr.Canada]

They were his words, just in another thread. But I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt… perhaps his perspective has changed since he wrote those words. Mr. Canada, could you please let us know which of these statements you stand behind? (bolding mine)

Or, from the beginning of this thread...

And I’m still curious to know what you see as the motives of the Pride movement.

Well this is off topic but I will indulge you as to my own thoughts. I have nothing to back this up it's just my own observations and opinion, nothing more or less.

Do I still believe that homosexuality is deviant behavior?

I think that my stance has softened somewhat due to having actually having a friend that has come out as gay. I've known him all my life. I would say that some sexual acts could be considered deviant but the same could be said for some straight sex acts as well. I think it's important to treat things individually instead of blanketing a whole group because of the actions of some or a few.

Do I still believe that homosexuals are mentally ill that require curing?

No. I'm sure mental illness is just as much a problem in the gay community as it is in the straight community.

Gays should be treated the same as straight people?

This one is easy. Yes of course they should be. If we, as a society really want everyone to be equal then the answer will be yes otherwise what we want is for the gay community to be treated as special which isn't equal at all but something above.

I reread that whole thread and I sound like a maniac. My views are not as hardcore right wing as they once were. I'm beginning to appreciate some moderation in life. Not everything needs to be black or white, there's room for some gray as well.

[TheNewTeddy]

More and more right-wingers are coming to that view, Mr.Canada, and for the same reasons that you have. The right and left is always changing, changing along with it does not make you any less right-wing (should you wish to still remain right-wing)

[Wild Bill]

They were his words, just in another thread. But I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt… perhaps his perspective has changed since he wrote those words. Mr. Canada, could you please let us know which of these statements you stand behind? (bolding mine)

Oh, forgive me Melanie! I thought it was about the Gay Pride parade being hijacked by some as a vehicle to attack Israel.

I should have realized it was actually all about Mr. Canada!

I can be a bit slow sometimes.

This is yet another example of why I find the left far more inclined to ad hominem attacks than the right. I happen to deplore Mr. Canada's views on homosexuality also but I find these debating tactics even more disappointing..

Edited July 4, 2012 by Wild Bill

[GostHacked]

Well this is off topic but I will indulge you as to my own thoughts. I have nothing to back this up it's just my own observations and opinion, nothing more or less.

Do I still believe that homosexuality is deviant behavior?

I think that my stance has softened somewhat due to having actually having a friend that has come out as gay. I've known him all my life. I would say that some sexual acts could be considered deviant but the same could be said for some straight sex acts as well. I think it's important to treat things individually instead of blanketing a whole group because of the actions of some or a few.

Do I still believe that homosexuals are mentally ill that require curing?

No. I'm sure mental illness is just as much a problem in the gay community as it is in the straight community.

Gays should be treated the same as straight people?

This one is easy. Yes of course they should be. If we, as a society really want everyone to be equal then the answer will be yes otherwise what we want is for the gay community to be treated as special which isn't equal at all but something above.

I reread that whole thread and I sound like a maniac. My views are not as hardcore right wing as they once were. I'm beginning to appreciate some moderation in life. Not everything needs to be black or white, there's room for some gray as well.

Well Mr. Canada, this is an interesting turn of events for you. It's almost like a slap in the face, a rude awakening. It's humbling to say the least. When you look back at your previous self you sometimes don't recognize or relate to who you were. Now that you have helped yourself with that first step, you will get into another whole understanding of what humanity is all about.

But then we move from gays to being anti-Israeli. Why?

[Melanie_]

Kudos, Mr. Canada. I think we all have read some of our own posts later, and thought, “what the hell was I thinking?”, but not many of us are able to admit it gracefully. I appreciate that you did so here.

Wild Bill, I have caused some thread drift here, you’re right. Back to the issue of whether or not the parade was anti-Semitic… can you show examples of anti-Semitism in this year’s parade? As I said, this wasn’t reported on here, and I can’t seem to find any reports online that say there were racist slurs or anti-Semitic chants from the Pride parade participants, as Mr. Canada claims. All the links I can find talk about the expectation of anti-Semitism, not about actual instances of it. There certainly is wide opposition to the QuAIA, but from what I can see that group’s concerns are based on political rather than racial or religious grounds. It isn’t anti-Semitic to disagree with the political decisions of the state of Israel.

A separate issue is whether or not the parade is the right forum for unrelated political protests; should there be limits on what causes the participants are there for? That is a question for the parade organizers, and I’m sure they struggle with this all the time. I agree with what you wrote earlier, there is the possibility that having so many groups, for so many different causes, dilutes the overall message of the parade.

[Mr.Canada]

Kudos, Mr. Canada. I think we all have read some of our own posts later, and thought, “what the hell was I thinking?”, but not many of us are able to admit it gracefully. I appreciate that you did so here.

Wild Bill, I have caused some thread drift here, you’re right. Back to the issue of whether or not the parade was anti-Semitic… can you show examples of anti-Semitism in this year’s parade? As I said, this wasn’t reported on here, and I can’t seem to find any reports online that say there were racist slurs or anti-Semitic chants from the Pride parade participants, as Mr. Canada claims. All the links I can find talk about the expectation of anti-Semitism, not about actual instances of it. There certainly is wide opposition to the QuAIA, but from what I can see that group’s concerns are based on political rather than racial or religious grounds. It isn’t anti-Semitic to disagree with the political decisions of the state of Israel.

A separate issue is whether or not the parade is the right forum for unrelated political protests; should there be limits on what causes the participants are there for? That is a question for the parade organizers, and I’m sure they struggle with this all the time. I agree with what you wrote earlier, there is the possibility that having so many groups, for so many different causes, dilutes the overall message of the parade.

The Pride event itself is not anti semitic no I don't think it is however some of the people who are involved with Pride are flirting with it quite a bit.

There is a downright hatred of Israel with the left wing but they will tell you it's not the case of course that they are only in disagreement with the regime or policies ir what have you.

After WWII Israel was set up as a safe haven for Jews worldwide. This will never change, this is what they have a problem with. Israel protecting its people, of whom the majority are Jews, with force. If Israel didn't use force it would cease to exist. Plain and simple. The best defense is a good offense.

Israel is surrounded by neighbors who would like to push Israel int othe sea and are daily making efforts to see that that happens. Even with the check points etc bombings are a part of life in Israel can you imagine how bad it would be if none were in place?