Israel threatening to do what I suuggested 5 years ago.

[DogOnPorch]

Meh...you still did not explain why your 'tribe' zinged Jordan's first king. Why was that again?

[TheNewTeddy]

Jordan is .... something else. The issue is complicated. How do I mean?

The former King of Jordan was very unpopular among Arabs, both people (outside Jordan) and the elite. It was he who, given his shunning by Arabs, signed the first Arab-Israeli deal. He has passed on.

The current King of Jordan was on Star Trek. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080526225050/memoryalpha/en/images/5/53/King_abdullah.jpg

Jordan is also, due to refugees moving in, 50%+1 Palestinian.

Jordan really can not be simply compared, or simply referred to, or... "simply" anything. Jordan and it's relationship with just about anybody else is "complicated" and Jordan can best be described as "complex"

[DogOnPorch]

Indeed. That is the correct answer. Peace with Israel. But, he did not 'simply' pass on as you mention.

As for the 'Palestinian Arabs' and the Jordanians living in harmony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

[BC_chick]

Meh...you still did not explain why your 'tribe' zinged Jordan's first king. Why was that again?

Every time you are called on your horseshit you change the subject. This is the question you posed:

DogOnPorch, on 03 June 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

The first place? Jordan held the so-called West Bank and didn't give up claim until 1988...oddly enough. Oddly enough as well, there were no rabid foaming at the mouth calls for an al-Husseini Clan...errr...pardon...Palestinian homeland during that stretch from 1948-67. Why was that dre? Hmmmmm??

This is the post you (dre) so cleverly call a pile of horse shit or whatever. Care to point out the false bits for me? Care to answer?

I did not deny that Jordanians and Palestinians are different Arab sects (your first diversion). I did not imply that lived holding hands and singing kumbaya (your second).

I said there was no outrage about a Palestinian homeland during that time because the living conditions for Jordanians and Palestnians was nothing like the living conditions of Israelis and Palestnians during Israeli occupation. Jordians weren't getting blown up by Palestnians and Palestinians weren't living as second-rate citizens.

Open up a whole other discussion about Arafat, Mufti, pink unicorns, whatever. You made a horseshit comparison when you implied it's anti-semitism that has the world all up in arms over Israel and the West Bank and you were called on it.

Pretend you don't understand, change the subject, respond once again with something irrelevant.

I've answered your question for the last time.

[DogOnPorch]

So Black September is a nasty lie?

[Guest Peeves]

Oh? This map is very similar to maps that both sides have proposed to one another.

Just saying, that wouldn't solve the problem of borders. First to solve a problem you must define the problem.

The problem is the Charters of Hamas and the PLO. and realistically Islam,

the Islamic belief that no infidel will occupy Islamic lands. EVER!

You face a problem that these peoples are stuck in the 7th century. They will never concede any border with a democratic Jewish state. Any Muslim that would will be assassinated.

The border, any border isn't the problem, the draconian fascist political religion is the problem.

Perhaps scan some of the Hamas Charter points, namely Articles 22, 28, and 35 perhaps for the mind set of those you might think would accept a border.

I await your conclusion.

http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html

[DogOnPorch]

You face a problem that these peoples are stuck in the 7th century. They will never concede any border with a democratic Jewish state. Any Muslim that would will be assassinated.

...and have been assassinated.

[Guest Peeves]

...and have been assassinated.

Hell, Hamas murdered their brother Fatah members and ran them out of Gaza. Maybe they can claim 'the right of return" ?

[DogOnPorch]

Hell, Hamas murdered their brother Fatah members and ran them out of Gaza. Maybe they can claim 'the right of return" ?

True enough. BC_Chick would like to forget that...plus Sadat...Abullah I (et al). Plus, please never mention the Grand Mufti as it upsets her to be connected with Nazi SS men who participated in the Holocaust. I hate tears...

[Guest Peeves]

True enough. BC_Chick would like to forget that...plus Sadat...Abullah I (et al). Plus, please never mention the Grand Mufti as it upsets her to be connected with Nazi SS men who participated in the Holocaust. I hate tears...

If one reads the manifesto of Hizbollah, and the Charters of the other militant groups. Hamas, PLO etc,it becomes much clearer what the objectives are. Also the Muslim Brotherhood becomes more a factor given the Egyptian election and threat to the peace treaty.

Certainly anyone (Muslim) pursuing peace with Israel should be concerned for the repercussions given the obvious fact that there would instantly be a fatwa on their lives and probably their families as well.

Obviously too long to reproduce here, but it is rather interesting to read. Here's one excerpt...

Our Objectives

Let us put it truthfully: the sons of Hizhallah know who are their major enemies in the Middle East - the Phalanges, Israel, France and the US. The sons of our umma are now in a state of growing confrontation with them, and will remain so until the realization of the following three objectives:

(a) to expel the Americans. the French and their allies definitely from Lebanon, putting an end to any colonialist entity on our land;

(B.) to submit the Phalanges to a just power and bring them all to justice for the crimes they have perpetrated against Muslims and Christians;

© to permit all the sons of our people to determine their future and to choose in all the liberty the form of government they desire. We call upon all of them to pick the option of Islamic government which, alone, is capable of guaranteeing justice and liberty for all. Only an Islamic regime can stop any further tentative attempts of imperialistic infiltration into our country.

These are Lebanon's objectives; those are its enemies. As for our friends, they are all the world's oppressed peoples. Our friends are also those who combat our enemies and who defend us from their evil. Towards these friends, individuals as well as organizations, we turn and say:

...and yet another;

The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel (See ICT Note)

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.....con'td

Emphasis mine.

http://forabetterlebanon.blogspot.ca/2008/02/hizbollahs-manifesto-english-version.html

Edited June 29, 2012 by Peeves

[TheNewTeddy]

FYI

https://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?authuser=0&vps=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=214668381355121949879.0004c3db6a963a4cc8613

This is a google maps (made by me of course) showing the 1948 partition boundaries (or as close as I could get)