Climate Change causes fall of Ancient Civilization

[Keepitsimple]

Actually, I can't PROVE it's the Sun ... but this is an interesting story....I guess these scientists fall into the denier camp.......how silly can they get - all climate on Earth is driven by the Sun? Drivel, pure drivel.

The mysterious fall of the largest of the world's earliest urban civilizations nearly 4,000 years ago in what is now India, Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh now appears to have a key culprit — ancient climate change, researchers say.

"The insolation — the solar energy received by the Earth from the sun — varies in cycles, which can impact monsoons," Giosan said. "In the last 10,000 years, the Northern Hemisphere had the highest insolation from 7,000 to 5,000 years ago, and since then insolation there decreased. All climate on Earth is driven by the sun, and so the monsoons were affected by the lower insolation, decreasing in force. This meant less rain got into continental regions affected by monsoons over time."

Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/huge-ancient-civilizations-collapse-explained-123449497.html

Edited May 29, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[Canuckistani]

They're not talking about global warming, but insolation changing the monsoons, which affected this civilization.

Insolation is actually decreasing at them moment, as the article says, yet we see warming.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Canuckistani

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Actually, I can't PROVE it's the Sun ... but this is an interesting story....I guess these scientists fall into the denier camp.......how silly can they get - all climate on Earth is driven by the Sun? Drivel, pure drivel.

Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/huge-ancient-civilizations-collapse-explained-123449497.html

Of course all climate is driven by the sun.

But if you cut down trees and change how energy is trapped.

The sun's affect on the planet changes.

Just saying.

[GostHacked]

Of course all climate is driven by the sun.

But if you cut down trees and change how energy is trapped.

The sun's affect on the planet changes.

Just saying.

So maybe stop cutting down trees?

But the sun can affect weather on this planet. With major solar winds it affects the magnetosphere of the planet. When that is in flux the suns rays have more effect on the planet and the weather.

We are a small blue spec in this solar system. That fireball in the sky has a diameter of 100 earths. Solar flares spit out a lot of debris (CMEs) and that can stretch past the orbit of this earth. You've seen what solar storms do to the atmosphere on the poles. One good CME can mess this planet up and wipe us out.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

So maybe stop cutting down trees?

But the sun can affect weather on this planet. With major solar winds it affects the magnetosphere of the planet. When that is in flux the suns rays have more effect on the planet and the weather.

We are a small blue spec in this solar system. That fireball in the sky has a diameter of 100 earths. Solar flares spit out a lot of debris (CMEs) and that can stretch past the orbit of this earth. You've seen what solar storms do to the atmosphere on the poles. One good CME can mess this planet up and wipe us out.

Absolutely, and what we do on this planet affects how it handles the output of the sun.

[waldo]

Actually, I can't PROVE it's the Sun ... but this is an interesting story....I guess these scientists fall into the denier camp.......how silly can they get - all climate on Earth is driven by the Sun? Drivel, pure drivel.

They're not talking about global warming, but insolation changing the monsoons, which affected this civilization.

Insolation is actually decreasing at the moment, as the article says, yet we see warming.

just another Simple "own goal" moment! Perhaps... one day... Simple will learn how to use MLW search to save himself the repeated embarrassment.

… ya, ya – “it’s the Sun, stupid!”

oh my, Simple! Can you believe the nerve of those wascally scientists and their no-nothing intrusions into using satellites to measure solar irradiance. You know… relying on satellites as the best way to detect changes in the actual sun output versus changes in the radiation reaching the earth's surface… eliminating influences of clouds, pollution, smoke, etc., on measurements. The nerve, Simple… the nerve of those guys!

somehow, Simple… somehow… the scientists at the World Radiation Center, the guys who have been constructing a satellite based, ‘Composite Total Solar Irradiance (TSI) Time Series from 1978 to present, somehow… those guys have been unable to show the presence of any increased solar irradiance during the same periods significant earth’s temperature increases. All they show, Simple… is a repeat of similar standard 11 year solar cycle patterns, absent any increases in solar irradiance, absent any increased trend in solar irradiance to match that of earth’s temperature trend increase. What Simple… are the World Radiation Center’s results simply an inconvenient truth… not a part of your longed for/missing open debate? Results graph showing no increase in solar irradiance –

here

:

Simple, what about those scientists at the Max Plank Institute for Solar System Research… somehow… those guys have also been unable to show any increase in solar irradiance to account and associate with the recent earth’s warming. What Simple… are the Max Plank Institute’s results simply an inconvenient truth… not a part of your longed for/missing open debate? Results graph showing no increase in solar irradiance… showing no correlation between solar irradiance and earth’s recent increased warming –

here

:

as for the Solomon article reference to the IPCC reports not giving any consideration to the influence of the Sun – nonsense. Two key sections within the WG1 Physical Sciences report include significant reference to solar variability – many paper citations are offered to account for the overall relative lack of radiative forcing that solar irradiance holds… as depicted within this graphic –

here

:

[TheNewTeddy]

Climate Change causes a whole lot of ****

The problem is that the words "Climate Change" have become interchangeable with "Global Warming", AND, to make it worse, "Global Warming" has become interchangeable with Local Warming.

IE:

It's cool this morning so Climate Change does not exist.

Climate Change is Climate Change. It means change. Global Cooling is Climate Change.

We are already seeing Climate Change. Toronto, for example, is wetter. Our winters are warmer. London, England, meanwhile is dryer, and, has cooler winters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315%E2%80%931317

This is an excellent example of climate change at work.

In short, it started raining... and raining and raining. Not every day, but much more often than usual. Crops went bad, people died. But...

People started to question God (which at the time, was the best buddy of the Pope)

Caused desperate times, which not only increased criminal activity, but made war more "dirty"

Helped weaken the population so that the Black Death could kill many more

This lead to, after some time and development

Protestantism

Guns

Medicine

One could argue, if you believe in Darwinism, all the death caused Europe to become "stronger", though I disagree with this personally.

And all cause it started to rain.

We've built not just our roads and buildings, but our government and society, by-in-large between 1950 and 1990. The climate of that era has already changed and continues to change. We must either adapt, or we will fail, and many many years from people people will look back at our era and say "Man... thank God I didn't have to live though that"

Edited May 30, 2012 by TheNewTeddy

[waldo]

We've built not just our roads and buildings, but our government and society, by-in-large between 1950 and 1990. The climate of that era has already changed and continues to change. We must either adapt, or we will fail, and many many years from people people will look back at our era and say "Man... thank God I didn't have to live though that"

I will take your adapt reference literally... adaptation in the absence of mitigating existing practices... in the absence of applying preventative measures... will be a futile, failed reactionary only undertaking.

[GostHacked]

Absolutely, and what we do on this planet affects how it handles the output of the sun.

Largest CME was back in March 3 2007... but this talks a bit about the one in 1859 and what problems it caused.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/06/110608-solar-flare-sun-science-space/

On the planet's surface, extra currents of solar particles drive extra electric current through power lines and heat them up. A solar storm in 1859, for example, caused telegraph lines to burst into flames. Power companies distribute loads to avoid such a disaster, but energetic solar storms could still blow transformers and lead to power outages, especially during heat waves like the one sweeping the eastern U.S. this week.

"Despite great countermeasures, the power grid is still vulnerable. We could be in for some serious problems," Chamberlin said

We may all be standing around, but what happens when this grid of electronics goes down?