TheNewCanadianDominion Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 one thing most of us have either forgotten or chose to ignore, is that us as citizens are more powerful then our government, the government is not supposed to rule us, they are supposed to be our voice to the rest of the world. so i make this next message short and sweet. The people must unite. We only have one life, why not strive towards advancing the human race rather than just sit by and accept the so called "fact" that we have no control. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 It is not a fact that we have no control, it is the opposite. Citizens of all ethnic backgrounds, occupations, wealths, religions need to engage with each other, to read, to discuss and to think. That is the only way we will succeed. Open Government is a movement that is trying to make that happen. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Moonbox Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 The people must unite. We only have one life, why not strive towards advancing the human race rather than just sit by and accept the so called "fact" that we have no control. Welcome to the forums, even if your point is kind of goofy. Fact is that people have different ideas about what's right to do. Add to that the fact that the majority of Canadians would rather watch Dancing with the Stars than to spend 20 minutes a day trying to stay informed... Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Guest Manny Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 CPC have a majority government, democratically elected by voters. That's like uniting... Quote
jacee Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 CPC have a majority government, democratically elected by voters. That's like uniting... The people don't agree ... 30% support and falling! And wait till the police start laying charges for election fraud! But I don't see Open Government as a partisan issue, though it is a political issue. It's not about Harper or the Conservatives, but about the secrecy that all governments try to maintain in order to preserve their power. Quote
g_bambino Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 [T]he government is not supposed to rule us, they are supposed to be our voice to the rest of the world... Actually, the government is supposed to govern. The people must unite. In what way? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 The people don't agree ... 30% support and falling! I think this was meant to be a strawman, or maybe even 'bait'. Manny's point is apt: how do we bring people together in a country where people feel that their views are so diverse. Note that I said that people feel that way, not that their views actually are diverse. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) I think this was meant to be a strawman, or maybe even 'bait'. Manny's point is apt: how do we bring people together in a country where people feel that their views are so diverse. Feel what? Most people I know feel screwed and overwhelmed by a secret opaque system that is rigged against them. Eventually that's what's going to unite them. Edited May 17, 2012 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
wyly Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 CPC have a majority government, democratically elected by voters. That's like uniting... a FPTP a flawed electoral system where less than 39% of the electorate can gain a majority does not unite... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 I think this was meant to be a strawman, or maybe even 'bait'. Manny's point is apt: how do we bring people together in a country where people feel that their views are so diverse. How? by letting every vote count, PR...you can live a lifetime in alberta and if you lean to the left never have someone represent your opinion in government...opinions are diverse in alberta as well but the electoral system stifles those who disagree, a million + albertans have never had a electoral voice and unless the electoral system changes they never will... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Tilter Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 The people don't agree ... 30% support and falling! And wait till the police start laying charges for election fraud! But I don't see Open Government as a partisan issue, though it is a political issue. It's not about Harper or the Conservatives, but about the secrecy that all governments try to maintain in order to preserve their power. Did your parents ever stop you from an act of stupidity? Did your conscience ever stop you from a wrongful act? Did your banker ever stop you from overspending or spending on something that was not in your best interest? Were these restraints popular with you? After a short period in power the NDP had, in prosperous times, stuck Ontario in a boghole of debt & foolish overspending. Harris VERY unpopular ((UNTIL ELECTION DAY)got Ontario back to prosperity. McPremier must be a buddy of Rae's--- followed the same stupid path until the province is again in dire straits financially and McPremier is about as popular as a skunk at a picnic. Conservative governments are unpopular till election day--- then the populace, if not too stupid (see Ontario voters) will go back to the Conservatives to get them out of the financial sinkhole into which the leftists have dumped the country or province they have so unwisely mishandled. See how popular the NDPs & Libs (if still around) are. Quote
TheNewCanadianDominion Posted May 17, 2012 Author Report Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) the way i see it, we all only have one life, why the hell should we live it with so many restrictions and secrets. i dont want to take over the world and i realize that my efforts will probably go unnoticed, but i promised myself i would spend my life trying to make a real change, basically, i think it would be cool from a universal point of view if we went extinct due to something other than ourselves. this next part really has no bearing on the situation but it's one example of how we are being controlled. My name is Avery Selinger, ever since i first seen the x files i started getting into both outerspace and government work, i was only 5. because of this i have always dreamed of going to space, but alas... i don't have clearance. to be honest with you, if i could go up to space right now, at the cost of my own life, i would gladly accept the price because my ultimate goal is to get off this rock. anyone can make a boat and go wandering into the ocean, but only the government can explore space. oh and edit, i realize this was probably so hard to read lol. please forgive me, my brain is not working proper right now. Edited May 17, 2012 by TheNewCanadianDominion Quote
jacee Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 Actually, the government is supposed to govern. They're supposed to govern in a manner that maintains the confidence of the people, not by imposing expensive and ill-thought-out repressive laws on us. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 Feel what? Most people I know feel screwed and overwhelmed by a secret opaque system that is rigged against them. Eventually that's what's going to unite them. It seems to me that they're very ungrateful. There is more opportunity, more support, more freedom than any time in history and they're still complaining ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 How? by letting every vote count, PR... PR has been explored to death on this forum. As I have said in the past, it's a solution without a problem and a complete overhaul at that. The same people who complain about lack of leftist voices in government would gladly take part in an overhaul that would allow centre-left coalitions to rule forever, until such a time as a far-right reaction would take root. There's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, then there's shooting the baby first, then throwing him out.... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 ever since i first seen the x files i started getting into both outerspace and government work Well, it does take all kinds to make a country I guess, so welcome. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
jacee Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 Did your parents ever stop you from an act of stupidity? We are not children and the government is not our 'parents'. We're adults, taxpayers. We elect them to take care of our collective business on our behalf and according to our wishes. We pay their salaries. They work for us. And it's our right and our responsibility to know what they're doing and why. They are accountable only to us. Quote
eyeball Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 It seems to me that they're very ungrateful. There is more opportunity, more support, more freedom than any time in history and they're still complaining ? It seems we must live on different planets. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
TheNewCanadianDominion Posted May 17, 2012 Author Report Posted May 17, 2012 Well, it does take all kinds to make a country I guess, so welcome. in a universal perspective, humans are going to go extinct but that could be either soon, or not at all. im hopeing for the ladder, but the only way that will happen is if we stop killing eachother simply becuase we have a different point of view. there is a reason humans have evolved into different races, that is because every race will play a role when we have a reached a state of higher evolution. Quote
Wild Bill Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 The people don't agree ... 30% support and falling! What are you suggesting? That after an election parties change their seats as government or opposition according to every change in the polls? Wouldn't all the MPs get tired of changing chairs every few days? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
jacee Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 It seems to me that they're very ungrateful. There is more opportunity, more support, more freedom than any time in history and they're still complaining ? That's very patronizing, Michael. We'll decide when we have enough freedom. And it's fast being eroded under the present regime. Quote
jacee Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) What are you suggesting? That after an election parties change their seats as government or opposition according to every change in the polls? Wouldn't all the MPs get tired of changing chairs every few days? I'm suggesting that governments remember that they are elected to govern all Canadians, not just to pander to their core voters. I'm suggesting that governments are accountable to the people and have no right to be secretive about their actions, the cost of government programs, etc. It's our information. We paid for it and we own it. Edited May 17, 2012 by jacee Quote
fellowtraveller Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 a FPTP a flawed electoral system where less than 39% of the electorate can gain a majority does not unite... Yeah, Greece is doing really well and dealing effectively with serious problems by employing proportional representation. Quote The government should do something.
g_bambino Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 a FPTP a flawed electoral system where less than 39% of the electorate can gain a majority does not unite... No electoral system can unite. Quote
g_bambino Posted May 17, 2012 Report Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) They're supposed to govern in a manner that maintains the confidence of the people, not by imposing expensive and ill-thought-out repressive laws on us. Huh? The People is not politically unitary; no government can never have the confidence of The People; only a plurality as represented by their elected representatives in the legislature. These representatives are every four years held responsible to the electorate for any laws that were passed. I'm suggesting that governments remember that they are elected to govern all Canadians, not just to pander to their core voters. That's all an elected government is ever going to do other than try to attract more support to the governing party. That's democracy. [ed.: sp, c/e, +] Edited May 17, 2012 by g_bambino Quote
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