Grow the Eff up Quebec!

[jacee]

It's just human nature, GH. Especially among the young. They aren't thinking logically. They simply want what they want! They want free tuition and think all they need to do is practice a sufficiently high level of violence and it will be given to them.

They are not thinking at all about where the money will come from. They don't think about higher taxes, or old folks not getting any increase in their pensions, or even if their province went bankrupt!

It is the thinking of a child. Scream and holler and someone will give you a cookie! Baking those cookies or even growing wheat for flour is someone else's problem, not theirs.

It might be a good time to cull the herd to improve the gene pool.

Ooooo ... the scary threats of murderous violence against protesters ... that's 'mature'

It all comes back to the G20 'austerity agenda' that's being forced down the throats of the people who have had no input, no say, while the corporate multinational industrial-military-monetary for-profit bosses tell our pathetic-excuse-for-democracy governments what to do.

Enough!

So you see Wild Bill, IT IS THE SAME STRUGGLE WORLDWIDE, and it's that common purpose, common resistance, that has. The banking-industrial complex and their puppet governments in Canada and worldwide SHAKING IN THEIR BOOTS.

So be it.

What goes around comes around ...

Edited April 26, 2012 by jacee

[Guest Manny]

The Quebec government gave money to the banks? When did this happen?

As far as their provincial parties go, this is a federalist party. But the larger point is, people keep getting gouged from all sides, see their tax money getting given to the elite and people are getting fed up. No wage increases for years, for many people.

What else do you expect? Peaceful protest gets ignored, marginalized and even ridiculed.

[Guest Manny]

Can they start with you?

No need to do anything but wait. And keep drool bucket handy...

[Boges]

It all comes back to the G20 'austerity agenda' that's being forced down the throats of the people who have had no input, no say, while the corporate multinational industrial-military-monetary for-profit bosses tell our pathetic-excuse-for-democracy governments what to do.

Universities are multinational for profit entities?

I think part of the need to raise tuition is because Universities can't keep their costs under control. How often do where hear about support worker strikes at University campuses.

[GostHacked]

You should move to the US. You would fit in quite well in the south.

You won't have to. Eventually what you see south of the 49th is going to make it's way up here. That much I can guarantee.

Trudeau did enact Martial Law to deal with that crisis.

[Boges]

You won't have to. Eventually what you see south of the 49th is going to make it's way up here. That much I can guarantee.

Trudeau did enact Martial Law to deal with that crisis.

A 12-year-old kid brought a loaded hand gun to school recently in Toronto. So. . . I guess so.

[The_Squid]

They can hike tuition by 75%, without consequence, if at the same time they do the following:

• End all subsidies to oil companies/ financial institutions, etc.;
  
• Close tax loopholes that only the wealthy can take advantage of so that they pair their fair share;
  
• Stop bringing in migrant workers who work for less than minimum wage and take Canadian jobs because employers claim they can't find anyone to work;
  
• Increase the minimum wage to a reasonable level;
  
• Cut corporate welfare
  

"•Among provincial governments, the province which disburses the most amount of public money to corporations is Quebec, with over $5.4 billion in corporate welfare in 2006." http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/display.aspx?id=12209

Do all these things and perhaps then the students will do their part as well. But to put an unfair burden of the debt/defecit on the backs of students while still giving away billions to corporations that don't need it is going to draw a reaction.

[Boges]

I've heard that after these hikes that Quebec will still have the lowest tuition rates in the country.

[The_Squid]

I've heard that after these hikes that Quebec will still have the lowest tuition rates in the country.

Good for them. They've done very well for their students who can become professionals without a mountain of debt. Shame on the rest of Canada for not following suit. It shouldn't be a race to the bottom.

[capricorn]

I've heard that after these hikes that Quebec will still have the lowest tuition rates in the country.

And, students filing income tax get another saving by deducting tuition fees.

[Guest Manny]

In my line of work the people in Quebec make practically half what we make in Ontario. I never could figure out why, since it seems like food and housing is just as expensive. But I don't know if it's indicative of the general level of income across the province, or just this particular case.

[Guest Manny]

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/13-605-x/2003001/chrono/2003prov/4151911-eng.htm

Income comparison

[jacee]

Universities are multinational for profit entities?

I think part of the need to raise tuition is because Universities can't keep their costs under control. How often do where hear about support worker strikes at University campuses.

I think part of the need to reduce tuition is to educate all Canadians.

It's not about the support staff or even the universities and colleges: It's the government that sets tuition, and it's purely political - trying to please their monetary masters, who tend to be a snobbish bunch who don't think poor students should have the 'privilege' of education.

[DFCaper]

I think part of the need to reduce tuition is to educate all Canadians.

It's not about the support staff or even the universities and colleges: It's the government that sets tuition, and it's purely political - trying to please their monetary masters, who tend to be a snobbish bunch who don't think poor students should have the 'privilege' of education.

I agree, I think Quebec should make life easier for the future upper classes by making there education cheaper. To do this, in reality the government will be adding more debt to all future Quebecers... rich and poor...

Also, they should water down Higher education to make sure that everybody can have one... haha. Anybody who wants and can handle a higher education is not prevented by getting one by tuition. The cost of lost wages is far higher. Free education means we will have to give up something else. People never appreciate free stuff more than something they pay for... Lets get Parting up at our schools...

[Boges]

I agree, I think Quebec should make life easier for the future upper classes by making there education cheaper. To do this, in reality the government will be adding more debt to all future Quebecers... rich and poor...

Also, they should water down Higher education to make sure that everybody can have one... haha. Anybody who wants and can handle a higher education is not prevented by getting one by tuition. The cost of lost wages is far higher. Free education means we will have to give up something else. People never appreciate free stuff more than something they pay for... Lets get Parting up at our schools...

Yeah it was said earlier in the thread that these increases won't affect low income students who have to take out loans.

The people that are rioting are privileged youth that just don't want to pay for their education I'd imagine.

If education is free then I predict people will go just cuz. And we see that many students are getting degrees that get them no closer to being gainfully employed than just starting work after high school.

Anyone who has HBO should watch the new series Girls. It illustrates how post-secondary education really doesn't go as far as it has in the past.

[PIK]

When quebec starts making it own money and not living off handouts from the west, then they can do what they want, but till then pay up. And the rioters, are they not just the black block hoodie idiots that are causing most of the trouble.

[Fletch 27]

This is getting insane... Its prooving to be VERY difficult to ween Quebec off of the Liberal teet.. and they havent been in power for eaons!!!!! Free this, Free that, all on the back of the rest of Canada... Close the door, jail a few student protesters under federal law and move on..

[jacee]

I agree, I think Quebec should make life easier for the future upper classes by making there education cheaper. To do this, in reality the government will be adding more debt to all future Quebecers... rich and poor...

Also, they should water down Higher education to make sure that everybody can have one... haha. Anybody who wants and can handle a higher education is not prevented by getting one by tuition. The cost of lost wages is far higher. Free education means we will have to give up something else. People never appreciate free stuff more than something they pay for... Lets get Parting up at our schools...

You fail to consider the contribution - in future taxes - of postsecondary graduates who earn about double the income of secondary grads. It' a good deal, when you look past the end of your nose instead of down it.

'Not prevented by tuition'?

Clearly you are inexperienced with poverty.

And ya, it's worth giving something up for ... corporate subsidies, corporate tax cuts, tax loopholes for the rich ... we can give those up!

Edited April 27, 2012 by jacee

[Boges]

You fail to consider the contribution - in future taxes - of postsecondary graduates who earn about double the income of secondary grads. It' a good deal, when you look past the end of your nose instead of down it.

'Not prevented by tuition'?

Clearly you are inexperienced with poverty.

And ya, it's worth giving something up for ... corporate subsidies, corporate tax cuts ... we can give those up!

What are the potential and/or likely earnings of someone with a Visual Arts Degree, Communications Degree, English Literature Degree, Philosophy Degree or my favourite, The Poly Sci Degree.

BoA's are actually becoming increasingly useless.

If Post-Secondary education was a guarantee of future affluence then the tuition should be considered an investment.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Boges

[jacee]

Close the door, jail a few student protesters under federal law and move on..

Guess you missed it ... The students are on strike until there is an acceptable settlement negotiated. The government is refusing to negotiate. The universities and colleges are very worried about losing an academic year. Harper hasn't figured out a way to 'legislate' students back to class yet. (education is a provincial jurisdiction) Charest is trying to demonize one of the student groups (divide and conquer), but the three groups are sticking together.

You can't jail people just for protesting. (freedom of speech and assembly are rights, not crimes)

I assume police are arresting those vandalizing bank windows, etc, when they can, some of whom are protesting and some may be just taking advantage of the situation.

But that won't stop the protests.

Protests are legal.

Do you have any viable suggestions?

Edited April 27, 2012 by jacee

[jacee]

What are the potential and/or likely earnings of someone with a Visual Arts Degree, Communications Degree, English Literature Degree, Philosophy Degree or my favourite, The Poly Sci Degree.

BoA's are actually becoming increasingly useless.

Interesting hypotheses. Let us know when you find some relevant information/evidence.

If Post-Secondary education was a guarantee of future affluence then the tuition should be considered an investment.

Exactly ... an investment in future taxpaying capacity ... which is why it should be free for all students (not just for those whose parents pay the shot).

It's an investment that can be tracked and results can be quantified and reported back to us ... the return on our investment is accounted for transparently.

Unlike, say, corporate subsidies and tax cuts whereby billions of taxpayer dollars disappear into deep pockets with NOTHING to show for it.

It'd be nice to know that a job or two was created, but with NO REPORTING, I think it's pretty safe to assume that those billions of OUR money are lining rich peoples' pockets.

It's a curiosity to me: Why do rich people think getting an education should be more difficult for poor kids than for their rich kids? I wonder how many rich kids would make it through if they had to work as hard to pay tuition and support themselves as poor students do ... not very many, I'd guess!

Edited April 27, 2012 by jacee

[cybercoma]

The police in Quebec should be ashamed of themselves for failing to protect the legitimate protesters from radical anarchist groups piggy-backing onto these demonstrations. The cops are obligated to ensure that violence and destruction do not ensue, while upholding the peaceful protesters' right to voice their concerns. Some of the student groups have already spoken out about the violence, the others for some stupid reason have taken direct democracy to the Nth degree, saying they need to vote on it. No, idiots. You don't have to vote on it. You need to condemn all violence. The police too need to be condemned for not handling the violent anarchists, instead of using that violence as a pretext to trample rights that we should all respect.

[Boges]

It's a curiosity to me: Why do rich people think getting an education should be more difficult for poor kids than for their rich kids? I wonder how many rich kids would make it through if they had to work as hard to pay tuition and support themselves as poor students do ... not very many, I'd guess!

Well if they made it free then the poor students wouldn't feel the need to work as hard then.

Wasn't it said earlier in the thread that these increases aren't going to apply to students from low-income families.

[cybercoma]

Well if they made it free then the poor students wouldn't feel the need to work as hard then.

Bullshit. Not that I necessarily agree that post-secondary education should be free. Edited April 27, 2012 by cybercoma

[GostHacked]

A 12-year-old kid brought a loaded hand gun to school recently in Toronto. So. . . I guess so.

So now the obvious only solution is to put metal detectors and pat downs for children as they are entering school. It's working so well in the US. We should try that here.

But overall that incident is irrelevant to the thread.