Wild Bill Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 Here's the link: http://news.sympatico.cbc.ca/world/war_on_drugs_not_working_harper_says/43eefecd "Prime Minister Stephen Harper took Canadian journalists at the Summit of the Americas by surprise when he conceded the war on drugs is a failure. But, he added, that didn't mean he supports legalization." I always believed that Harper was for the most part a logical fellow but I never expected this. He still doesn't support legalization but admitting the war is a failure is a giant first step! Now I know that there will be posters on this board who will say that Harper wants drugs to stay illegal because he's a Tory and they enjoy destroying people's lives but we all know the issue is more complicated than that. Whatever is going on, it sure looks like ol' Vic Toews is no longer calling the shots, which many of us predicted what was going to happen when Vic introduced his Spanish Inquisition crime Bill. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
cybercoma Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 Actions speak louder than words. He thinks the war on drugs is a failure and with mandatory minimums for drug-related offences, he has shown that he believes the penalties need to be more severe. Quote
Wild Bill Posted April 16, 2012 Author Report Posted April 16, 2012 Actions speak louder than words. He thinks the war on drugs is a failure and with mandatory minimums for drug-related offences, he has shown that he believes the penalties need to be more severe. That was my point, CC! The Bill was not Harper's personal creation. It came from Vic Toew's Ministry. As PM Harper is ultimately responsible but it is naive in the extreme to think that he crafts every Bill himself! No, this is a distinct break from Vic's position with that Bill. It shows that things may be changing on this issue within the PMO. I'm not expecting to see Mark Emery appointed to the Senate any time soon but still, something is going on. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
cybercoma Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 It's not a break from Vic's position. The war on drugs isn't working (that's what Harper said), so the laws need to be stricter (that's what Harper did). Quote
Vendetta Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 It's not a break from Vic's position. The war on drugs isn't working (that's what Harper said), so the laws need to be stricter (that's what Harper did). Exactly- Harper only thinks its a failure because Canadians will not stand for public executions of pot smokers. Harper is not realistic at all, he thinks ramping up the police state is the only way to succeed. It goes back to his religious convictions as missionary alliance church that pot smoking leads to demonic possession. They must have come up with that while he and stock were "speaking in tongues" about it. Quote
The_Squid Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 Until there are some serious policy changes about dealing with drugs, we can only go by what this government has done (the gov't, not Vic Toews) Harsher sentencing.... The opposition all they way to the SCC of harm reduction facilities. These are classic "war on drugs" failures that are perpetuated by the Harper Government. Quote
dre Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) It seems like the reason he thinks its a failure, is because the war on drugs has not been fought aggressively enough, and not enough money has been spent on it, and not enough drug users are in prison? Ramping up the drug war is a policy unsupportable by anyone with even basic cognitive faculties. Edited April 16, 2012 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Wild Bill Posted April 16, 2012 Author Report Posted April 16, 2012 Exactly- Harper only thinks its a failure because Canadians will not stand for public executions of pot smokers. Harper is not realistic at all, he thinks ramping up the police state is the only way to succeed. It goes back to his religious convictions as missionary alliance church that pot smoking leads to demonic possession. They must have come up with that while he and stock were "speaking in tongues" about it. Neither you or CC bothered to read the link, did you? It's kinda obvious! I guess it's easier to castigate your hated Harper for what you think he said rather than deal with what was actually spoken. Forgive me if I don't participate with you. I like to live in the real world. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Topaz Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 Why do you think the "war on drugs" aren't working? I going to tell you a story I read some years ago when Bush SR was in office. it was during the time when he was VP and they came out with the drug czar and the war on drugs. Remember the Navy Seals going into Panama to get Noriega. Well, apparently the story behind the story was that Bush Sr., and Jeb, being the Governor of Florida were doing drug business with Noriega, where the drugs would come through Panama and into Florida The problem with this came when Noriega decided to keep more of the profits to himself, they peeve off the Bush's and so in went the Seals and to jail for Noriega. I don't think any journalist has had any time with this guy for good reason. So, will the war on drugs ever be stopped no, because the rich are making too much money on them and those people more than likely work in government. Now, is this story true, it may be or not but its not the average guy bringing it in. Quote
The_Squid Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 Neither you or CC bothered to read the link, did you? It's kinda obvious! I guess it's easier to castigate your hated Harper for what you think he said rather than deal with what was actually spoken. Forgive me if I don't participate with you. I like to live in the real world. We all know talk is cheap, especially when it comes to a politician. The rubber meets the road through policies and legislation. What policies or legislation has the Harper Government enacted to end the "war on drugs"? Quote
Battletoads Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 He likely means that the war hasn't been aggressive enough. I look forward to harper declaring 'total war' on drugs. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
dre Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 He likely means that the war hasn't been aggressive enough. I look forward to harper declaring 'total war' on drugs. I guarantee the result of such a war will be more drugs, more addiction, and more drug related crime. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
eyeball Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) He likely means that the war hasn't been aggressive enough. I look forward to harper declaring 'total war' on drugs. I look forward to anti-gun control Conservatives Libertarians reminding people of the wisdom of arming themselves against the tyranny of the state. Edited April 16, 2012 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
cybercoma Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 Neither you or CC bothered to read the link, did you? It's kinda obvious! I guess it's easier to castigate your hated Harper for what you think he said rather than deal with what was actually spoken. Forgive me if I don't participate with you. I like to live in the real world. What exactly do you want me to read? I saw his comments and I read about it from several different news sources. He said that the war on drugs is not working, but he offered no prescription for it. I can only go by what he has done here at home as a prescription. He increased prison sentences and he tried to shut-down Insite/Onsite. It's not my problem you can't manage to put the two together to see that he believes the war on drugs needs to be more aggressive. There's absolutely no other way to take his comments. Quote
Wild Bill Posted April 16, 2012 Author Report Posted April 16, 2012 We all know talk is cheap, especially when it comes to a politician. The rubber meets the road through policies and legislation. What policies or legislation has the Harper Government enacted to end the "war on drugs"? None! I never said he did any! In my OP I simply said that Harper was quoted as recognizing that the 'war on drugs' has been a failure. Nothing else! My point is that a Canadian PM has finally seen the obvious. He himself said that he doesn't know what should be done, since he thinks that drugs are harmful. Me, I say, so what? I've got that Classic Liberal hormone in me that says "What the hell business is it of YOURS if I choose to do drugs?" I do not and never have agreed that the State has the right to dictate lifestyle choices. Adults should be able to do whatever drugs they want, adopt whatever sexual lifestyle they wish and basically make their own choices. If they screw up, they should also be responsible for their own mistakes. The role of government should be limited to one of education and punishment for harming others or their property. After that, they should keep an effective army to prevent any wolves from getting in to our Shire or harming our national interests. I don't know if Harper's government will actually do something positive in this area. I do know that as long as governments were in denial about a futile war there was no chance of anything ever happening! It's only been over 30 some odd years since the LeDain Commission. We Canadians are not a hasty folk! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Battletoads Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 I guarantee the result of such a war will be more drugs, more addiction, and more drug related crime. Of that there is no doubt. Unfortunately the ideologues of the conservative party rarely, if ever, have let data or facts stand in their way. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
madmax Posted April 16, 2012 Report Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) I'm not expecting to see Mark Emery appointed to the Senate any time soon but still, something is going on. ROTFLOL Edited April 16, 2012 by madmax Quote
Bryan Posted April 17, 2012 Report Posted April 17, 2012 Harper has articulated the complex nature of his position on drugs several times in the past. He's never taken the stance that all drug users should be locked-up, or anything remotely like that. He's always said that in theory he supports a certain degree of decriminalization, that adults should have autonomy over what they put into their bodies. The problem is, he also wants to make sure that drugs are not being given to sold to children. You're kind of stuck if you want to take both of those positions seriously. I've always thought the correct approach would be to make using drugs completely legal, carrying around small personal use amounts a very minor offense, but manufacturing and or selling them a very serious offense. You smoke weed? No problem. You got caught growing a few plants for your own use? A small fine, no criminal charges. You sold a bag to a kid? 10 years. Quote
eyeball Posted April 17, 2012 Report Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) I've always thought the correct approach would be to make using drugs completely legal, carrying around small personal use amounts a very minor offense, but manufacturing and or selling them a very serious offense. That's just plain nuts in the face of alcohol and tobacco corporations that are bestowed with Coats of Arms heralding the official respectability of producing drugs for human consumption. BTW are you the type of person who would try to lecture your kids on the evils of drug use with a cigarette in one hand and a double scotch in the other? Edited April 17, 2012 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
PIK Posted April 17, 2012 Report Posted April 17, 2012 That's just plain nuts in the face of alcohol and tobacco corporations that are bestowed with Coats of Arms heralding the official respectability of producing drugs for human consumption. BTW are you the type of person who would try to lecture your kids on the evils of drug use with a cigarette in one hand and a double scotch in the other? And we will never stop murdering, so we might as well legalize that while we are at it. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
eyeball Posted April 17, 2012 Report Posted April 17, 2012 And we will never stop murdering, so we might as well legalize that while we are at it. That's the nuttiest reaction to Harper's realism I've heard yet. So is it safe to say the shine has completely worn off your boy wonder and he's crossed over to the ranks of the hopeless hug a thug soft on crime lefties? NOW what are you going to do, shit or go blind? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
madmax Posted April 17, 2012 Report Posted April 17, 2012 Harper has articulated the complex nature of his position on drugs several times in the past. He's never taken the stance that all drug users should be locked-up, or anything remotely like that. He's always said that in theory he supports a certain degree of decriminalization, that adults should have autonomy over what they put into their bodies. The problem is, he also wants to make sure that drugs are not being given to sold to children. You're kind of stuck if you want to take both of those positions seriously. Can you source the bolded quote? Quote
WWWTT Posted April 17, 2012 Report Posted April 17, 2012 I think Harper is starting to catch foot in mouth disease or something. Aswell "The war on drugs" is an odd statement.Drugs are inanimate objects created by humans. Maybe he means the war on drug dealers?Or drug manufacturers?Or drug users?Or maybe the idea or culture that believes in such? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Bryan Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 BTW are you the type of person who would try to lecture your kids on the evils of drug use with a cigarette in one hand and a double scotch in the other? No, but apparently you're the type of person who like to argue against strawmen instead of what someone actually said. Quote
eyeball Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 No, but apparently you're the type of person who like to argue against strawmen instead of what someone actually said. Okay lets do that. You want to make it completely legal to use drugs while also making it an offence to possess them. I assume you're not just proposing a fine but also the confiscation of something that's otherwise completely legal. I repeat, you just don't make any damn sense at all. Why I should feel constrained from changing the subject while you mangle it beyond all reason? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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