Harper realistic about drugs?

[Keepitsimple]

"What I think everybody believes," Harper said, "is that the current approach is not working. But it is not clear what we should do."

This would be intriguing from any prime minister. From Stephen Harper, whose government's crime bill ratchets up the penalties for drug possession, it was startling.

Lest anyone think he'd undergone a conversion in Cartagena, Harper quickly added the other side of the story.

Drugs, he said, "are illegal because they quickly and totally - with many of the drugs - destroy people's lives."

Was marijuana the exception he had in mind? We never got to ask. But perhaps that was enough eyebrow-raising for one day.

That's what I've always liked about Harper - he actually answers questions. Like him or not, if you listen, you know where he stands. And for those tokers who like to bash Harper.....how about all those other drugs - if the war on these drugs has failed - how do you actually define "success" - think about it. Go outside the bounds of the age-old legalize pot argument and thinkk about crack, heroin, PHP and the many others that are insidiously appearing.....do you just stand back and watch vulnerable youths lives destroyed? Problems in life are not solved by hand-wringing or hoping or hugging. It takes education, a societal stand, and consequences.....but mostly education - of the harm, the societal consequences - and the legal consequences.

[The_Squid]

do you just stand back and watch vulnerable youths lives destroyed?

No one suggests "do nothing". Take those enforcement/incarceration dollars and put them towards treatment and education. All of a sudden those budgets go from meager to adequate. Do not address the drug problem as a policing problem. Address it as a health problem.

[PIK]

I think Harper is starting to catch foot in mouth disease or something.

Aswell "The war on drugs" is an odd statement.Drugs are inanimate objects created by humans.

Maybe he means the war on drug dealers?Or drug manufacturers?Or drug users?Or maybe the idea or culture that believes in such?

WWWTT

You are quite the dreamer.

[Keepitsimple]

No one suggests "do nothing". Take those enforcement/incarceration dollars and put them towards treatment and education. All of a sudden those budgets go from meager to adequate. Do not address the drug problem as a policing problem. Address it as a health problem.

We've put a lot of money into treatment - anyone with a problem can get treatment - it's one of the first remedies when you're first caught using......but the Charter provides each person with the right to refuse treatment - which many do. More money can be put into education to demonstrate how insidious drugs can be - how they provide a slippery slope to ruined lives. For the record, the delivery of Health and Education services are the domain of the provinces. What we have NOT done - until recently - is deal with the enforcement side of things - it's been a revolving door of slaps on the wrist except for the very worst, violent traffickers. Your suggestion is to take "enforcement" dollars and channel them towards treatment and education. That's being disingenuous - we need to do both.....but here's a question for you.....as opposed to your platitudes - what specific education and treatment would you suggest that is not available today......and what would you do about those people who refuse to accept treatment?

Edited April 18, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[The_Squid]

what specific education and treatment would you suggest that is not available today...

More safe injection sites

More treatment and outreach/social workers (I disagree with your assumption that anyone who wants treatment can get it)

and what would you do about those people who refuse to accept treatment?

Harm reduction strategies are all that you could do. We don't force alcoholics in to treatment, but we don't throw them in jail for alcoholism either.

[Keepitsimple]

More safe injection sites

More treatment and outreach/social workers (I disagree with your assumption that anyone who wants treatment can get it)

Harm reduction strategies are all that you could do. We don't force alcoholics in to treatment, but we don't throw them in jail for alcoholism either.

More platitudes - more hand wringing - and more ruined lives. What exactly do you mean other than a safe place to inject drugs? What about crack and the many other drugs that are not injectable? Although we don't throw people in jail for BEING an alcoholic - we DO throw them in jail if their drinking results in criminal activity or repeated violence and as I said - the first recourse in the courts is to moderate their carceration as long as they complete a treatment program. It's not an easy problem at all with all the pshycological and cultural issues surrounding addictions - but when someone repeatedly causes havoc to society and refuses to change = then I'm sorry - it's off to the Slammer to protect society.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[cybercoma]

someone repeatedly causes havoc to society

This is pure bias.

[Bryan]

Okay lets do that. You want to make it completely legal to use drugs while also making it an offence to possess them. I assume you're not just proposing a fine but also the confiscation of something that's otherwise completely legal.

I repeat, you just don't make any damn sense at all.

Why I should feel constrained from changing the subject while you mangle it beyond all reason?

As usual, you're simply making something up that I didn't say and arguing against that.

[The_Squid]

More platitudes - more hand wringing - and more ruined lives.

As opposed to what works so well now? Putting more people who are professionals working on addiction problems is neither a platitude nor is it hand-wringing. It is effective healthcare.

exactly do you mean other than a safe place to inject drugs? What about crack and the many other drugs that are not injectable?

Yes, good idea.... safe places to smoke crack would be good too. Better than in the park. Plus, they have access to healthcare professionals there as well.

we DO throw them in jail if their drinking results in criminal activity or repeated violence

No one is suggesting legalizing violence or theft. Just drugs.

[eyeball]

You said;

I've always thought the correct approach would be to make...

using drugs completely legal,

carrying around small personal use amounts a very minor offense

So...are minor amounts legal or an offence?

Perhaps it would help to know what you mean by a very minor amount. Knowing if you would confiscate it should also help clear things up.

[jacee]

Emery’s prosecutor wants pot legalized

By Ian Mulgrew, Vancouver Sun April 19, 2012

The former U.S. attorney who prosecuted Marc Emery says he has “no regrets” about jailing the pot activist, yet he has embraced the cause of cannabis legalization In a fairly startling Saul-on-the-road-to- Damascus about-face, John McKay says it’s time to tax and regulate marijuana because it provides too much cash to gangsters and fuels too much violence.

“The criminal marijuana prohibition is a complete failure,” said McKay, who became a high-profile federal prosecutor after his 200 appointment by president George W. Bush.

“The problem posed by the vast criminal marijuana black market is a threat to public safety both in the United States and Canada It’s time to rethink our criminalization and prohibition policy.”

There it is again.

Such aa waste of money and lives, fighting the 'war on marijuana'.

[Tilter]

Suggestion--- Free the drug users, inject the dealers with as much product as they have when arrested--- if they have no problem with the chaos they create in user's lives they should have no problem with injecting an ounce of heroin or meth.

[Tilter]

Emery’s prosecutor wants pot legalized

By Ian Mulgrew, Vancouver Sun April 19, 2012

The former U.S. attorney who prosecuted Marc Emery says he has “no regrets” about jailing the pot activist, yet he has embraced the cause of cannabis legalization In a fairly startling Saul-on-the-road-to- Damascus about-face, John McKay says it’s time to tax and regulate marijuana because it provides too much cash to gangsters and fuels too much violence.

“The criminal marijuana prohibition is a complete failure,” said McKay, who became a high-profile federal prosecutor after his 200 appointment by president George W. Bush.

“The problem posed by the vast criminal marijuana black market is a threat to public safety both in the United States and Canada It’s time to rethink our criminalization and prohibition policy.”

There it is again.

Such aa waste of money and lives, fighting the 'war on marijuana'.

John McKay says it’s time to tax and regulate marijuana because it provides too much cash to gangsters and fuels too much violence.

Yeah--- nothing more violent than a bunch of teenagers (or anyagers for that matter) high (or rather "low" ) on pot. Why--- if not stopped they would eat every container of Nacho chips in the world :lol:

[Vendetta]

More safe injection sites

More treatment and outreach/social workers (I disagree with your assumption that anyone who wants treatment can get it)

Harm reduction strategies are all that you could do. We don't force alcoholics in to treatment, but we don't throw them in jail for alcoholism either.

A fiend of mine died while on a 6 week waiting period for access to treatment that he sought out himself. Treatment for hard drugs is NOT readily available. Treatment for "cannabis addiction" is a ridiculous joke, and would not even exist if people didn't pretend they were addicted to avoid jailtime, or responsibility for unrelated criminal activity. Cannabis is less physically addictive than caffiene.