NDP Horvath's “tax the rich” proposal.

[BornAlbertan]

While I appreciated Andrea Horvath's successful efforts to stop the freeze on disability payments, I'm not impressed that she threw welfare recipients under the bus.

A person can live on ODSP.

A person can't live on welfare. It's impossible, and that contributes to petty crime.

It also penalizes our most vulnerable children

Sad thing is a person shouldn't be "living" on welfare. Unless you have a physical or mental impairment, it should be used to better yourself or your situation and get off it. If they can't (or more particularly won't)....well....speaks volumes of their value as a citizen.

Edited April 24, 2012 by BornAlbertan

[mentalfloss]

Great it goes into the general fund giving Dauntless McGuinty more cash to give out to green energy wasted projects.

Actually, he's using it all to help pay down the deficit much to the chagrin of the NDP.

[Michael Hardner]

While I appreciated Andrea Horvath's successful efforts to stop the freeze on disability payments, I'm not impressed that she threw welfare recipients under the bus.

A person can live on ODSP.

A person can't live on welfare. It's impossible, and that contributes to petty crime.

It also penalizes our most vulnerable children

To clarify - do you mean she did this by not insisting that McGuinty withdraw the proposal to freeze welfare rates ?

[madmax]

Actually, he's using it all to help pay down the deficit much to the chagrin of the NDP.

He has to use it to pay down the deficit because any monies McGuinty puts into privately run services turns into a billion dollar boondoggle.

Whether its Ehealth or Orgne this government dug themselves in a deep deep whole with nothing to show for it.

Its just a matter of time before they get tossed out for good.

[Boges]

He has to use it to pay down the deficit because any monies McGuinty puts into privately run services turns into a billion dollar boondoggle.

Whether its Ehealth or Orgne this government dug themselves in a deep deep whole with nothing to show for it.

Its just a matter of time before they get tossed out for good.

Yeah I think 7 months into their "mandate" might be too early to go back to the polls but in the coming year there isn't much that'll make Dalton look more appealing to the public.

In a year when the 2013 budget is up for debate the NDP will ask for more and if Dalton keep bending to them he'll lose support from the right of his party.

Bending to the NDP didn't work for Paul Martin for very long, won't help McDalton either.

[Guest Peeves]

One would do well to take note.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/04/23/fp-letter-to-the-editor-ontarios-super-surtaxes/

Letter to the Editor: Ontario’s super surtaxes

Special to Financial Post Apr 23, 2012 – 8:37 PM ET

Members of the media who apparently do not understand Ontario’s income tax system should more accurately portray the present rates of taxation in Ontario. They should also portray more accurately the implications of NDP Leader Andrea Horwath’s ill-advised plan “to boost provincial income tax from 11.16% to 13.16% on all income over $500,000.”

The plan, now endorsed by Premier Dalton McGuinty and to be incorporated into his Liberal government’s budget, has been widely misportrayed. Accordingly, I want to set the record straight on this abusive and punitive measure.

Everyone who has reported on this ridiculous idea has, to my knowledge, failed to recognize, quantify and illustrate the fact that Ontario already has two levels of surtaxes on provincial tax payable. Anyone in Ontario with taxable income over $68,325 pays a surtax on the provincial tax otherwise payable; and with taxable income of only $79,850, a taxpayer pays a second level of surtax! Accordingly, while the top marginal rate in Ontario is nominally 11.16%, the reality is that the true marginal rate over $79,850 is not 11.16%, but, rather, 17.41%! I’m sure you would agree that identifying the true current marginal rate of taxation to be 17.41% is a very important distinction.

Advertisement

Now let’s go one step farther and talk about Ms. Horwath’s proposal to add another tax bracket — 13.16% — for those earning over $500,000. She — and the media sheep that she counts on to do her dirty work — fails to note that the 13.16% would actually be 20.53%! Her suggested added tax bracket of two percentage points would actually be 3.12 percentage points when one recognizes the surtax regime. Again, that’s an extremely important distinction and one that the media ought to be publicizing in their role of not just regurgitating a politician’s news release … but doing some modest analysis and rational thinking along the way.

The NDP plan, now part of the Liberal plan — and the media’s failure to correct the NDP numbers — just makes me angry!

Gord Drimmie, Toronto

[cybercoma]

Sad thing is a person shouldn't be "living" on welfare. Unless you have a physical or mental impairment, it should be used to better yourself or your situation and get off it. If they can't (or more particularly won't)....well....speaks volumes of their value as a citizen.

And the vast majority of research shows that welfare recipients are more than willing to work, but often don't have the means.

[cybercoma]

One would do well to take note.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/04/23/fp-letter-to-the-editor-ontarios-super-surtaxes/

Poor guy. I don't know how he'll ever survive paying a 20% tax rate on half a million dollars. Hopefully he finds a way to choose between keeping the lights on and putting food on the table.

[Guest Peeves]

Poor guy. I don't know how he'll ever survive paying a 20% tax rate on half a million dollars. Hopefully he finds a way to choose between keeping the lights on and putting food on the table.

Indeed. On the other hand there are many custodians of my earnings that I would trust to manage them than the current Liberal liar.." No tax increases" McGuinty.

I can think of a few other places that spending the increased tax would better our economy than with the Liberal government.

[Guest Peeves]

And the vast majority of research shows that welfare recipients are more than willing to work, but often don't have the means.

That's probably true. I won't attempt to dispute you claim.

However in my life's experience I have found that if a system can be abused it will be by fraud and deceit. Whether that is by doctors, lawyers, politicians, Refugees, immigrants or the hoi polloi.

I have (personally) seen abuse and cheats in Workers Comp, U.I. welfare,Social Assistance,Insurance fraud, and by employers- and by employees and it doesn't stop there.

Those that would deny there's fraud rampant in any or all possible programs and venues

that costs the tax payer a bundle, are simply in denial.

There are examples where more than the current generation are and have been on welfare.

[Guest Peeves]

Premier McGuinty made a "no tax increase" pledge in the 2003 election

True.

So, does that make him a liar? or just a politician willing to trade his political soul to a socialist that thinks government largesse is made with funds that appear out of the blue.

[jacee]

Sad thing is a person shouldn't be "living" on welfare. Unless you have a physical or mental impairment, it should be used to better yourself or your situation and get off it. If they can't (or more particularly won't)....well....speaks volumes of their value as a citizen.

Those with "physical or mental impairment" are on disability

In Ontario over 80% of those currently attempting to 'live' on welfare are single Moms with young children, whom they can't feed and house properly at current welfare rates. They stay on welfare an average of 3 years, until the kids are in school and Mom is trained and working.

With young families, the system is working in Ontario. People are getting off welfare. However, at the current (and frozen) rates, young children are going hungry. Single men and women who become unemployed and their unemployment runs out, especially older ones who are virtually unemployable these days, live in severe poverty on welfare. They're the victims of 'austerity' in business and industry, and NOBODY's hiring them.

They're the ones who are stuck on welfare, and they can't even afford a decent place to live. Even most rooms (most pretty scary) are beyond their means, and apartments are a pipe dream.

They're basically the throwaways from the corporacapitalist society ... and then young punks come along and diss them for not working ...

[Guest Peeves]

Those with "physical or mental impairment" are on disability

In Ontario over 80% of those currently attempting to 'live' on welfare are single Moms with young children, whom they can't feed and house properly at current welfare rates. They stay on welfare an average of 3 years, until the kids are in school and Mom is trained and working.

With young families, the system is working in Ontario. People are getting off welfare. However, at the current (and frozen) rates, young children are going hungry. Single men and women who become unemployed and their unemployment runs out, especially older ones who are virtually unemployable these days, live in severe poverty on welfare. They're the victims of 'austerity' in business and industry, and NOBODY's hiring them.

They're the ones who are stuck on welfare, and they can't even afford a decent place to live. Even most rooms (most pretty scary) are beyond their means, and apartments are a pipe dream.

They're basically the throwaways from the corporacapitalist society ... and then young punks come along and diss them for not working ...

So why are we importing workers?

[madmax]

So why are we importing workers?

Cheap disposable Labour Force.

Few Rights.

Higher Abuse of Wage Theft.

http://www.workersactioncentre.org/stopwagetheft.html

----------------------------------------------------------

Many of us are not earning enough to live on. We face unfair conditions at work every day. Too many employers don’t pay us what we should be paid by law. Why is this allowed to happen? We deserve decent wages and fairness at work!

Our wages are stolen when:

•We are not paid for all the hours that we work, or we are not paid at all

•We are not paid minimum wage, overtime pay or for other legal rights

•We are wrongly treated as independent contractors or self employed

•We are charged a fee to get a job

When employers steal our wages and break the law – this is wage theft!

Wage theft is unfair, affects our families and communities and keeps us in poverty!

HOW WE CAN STOP WAGE THEFT

We can stop wage theft when we work together. We have done it before! Many US states have passed Wage Theft laws. It can be done!!

TO STOP WAGE THEFT THE GOVERNMENT MUST:

•Make all employers follow the law in all workplaces

•Update labour laws to protect all workers

•Increase the minimum wage to bring workers out of poverty

•Ensure equal status and protection for all workers regardless of immigration status

[jacee]

So why are we importing workers?

Because they're younger and able to tolerate the working conditions. Edited April 24, 2012 by jacee

[cybercoma]

That's probably true. I won't attempt to dispute you claim.

However in my life's experience I have found that if a system can be abused it will be by fraud and deceit. Whether that is by doctors, lawyers, politicians, Refugees, immigrants or the hoi polloi.

I have (personally) seen abuse and cheats in Workers Comp, U.I. welfare,Social Assistance,Insurance fraud, and by employers- and by employees and it doesn't stop there.

Those that would deny there's fraud rampant in any or all possible programs and venues

that costs the tax payer a bundle, are simply in denial.

There are examples where more than the current generation are and have been on welfare.

You know there's a funny story that relates to your post. The Harris Government in Ontario was in such a fervour about 'welfare cheats' that they set up a toll-free number for people to call and report their neighbours that they suspected of fraud.

Do you know what happened?

The vast majority of the calls turned up no fraud and a significant number of them were against people that weren't even collecting welfare.

Do you understand how this relates to your post?

[jacee]

Poor guy. I don't know how he'll ever survive paying a 20% tax rate on half a million dollars. Hopefully he finds a way to choose between keeping the lights on and putting food on the table.

It always amazes me that whenever the topic turns to the fact that the rich should pay a fairer share, some people (the rich?) start whining about the welfare fraud that they 'just know' is going on.

I'd like a chance to audit the whiners' taxes because I 'just know' that people who think everybody cheats are certain to be cheating themselves.

I do find it quite bizarre how the rich/the whiners are so envious of of people on welfare. Do they really think they're living the high life on $600/mo (single, no dependents)? It's called extreme poverty, and it's not a picnic.

I have sympathy for the rich people whose lives are so bleak they spend time envying people on welfare.

I say they should pay up those taxes, and get a nice hobby to give them something constructive to occupy their thoughts with positivity.

People on welfare could give the rich whiners some tips about dealing with. depression.

[mentalfloss]

Strawman much?

No one has ever said that the super-rich will "punish" anyone for taxing them. The economic theory which has worked out in reality is that the super-rich are the ones investing their money into business, which, when it expands, tends to create more and higher paying jobs, which helps everyone.

Even that is questionable when you consider poverty rates in states with the highest income disparity.

Edited April 25, 2012 by mentalfloss

[jacee]

Strawman much?

No one has ever said that the super-rich will "punish" anyone for taxing them. The economic theory which has worked out in reality is that the super-rich are the ones investing their money into business, which, when it expands, tends to create more and higher paying jobs, which helps everyone.

So, when youre done making stuff up, let me know.

Well aren't you a ray of sunshine! Welcome ... ?

Ya ... "tends to..." ... right. Show me the evidence!

______________________________

The transition from a woman's reproductive to postreproductive years is a natural part of life. Yet like some other natural states, such as adolescence, it can also entail discomfort. Not only do our bodies tell us that something different is happening, but we also don't know how long the process will last or what's in store on the other side.

Read more about menopause in women.

???

Hope it works out for you ...

[Guest Peeves]

You know there's a funny story that relates to your post. The Harris Government in Ontario was in such a fervour about 'welfare cheats' that they set up a toll-free number for people to call and report their neighbours that they suspected of fraud.

Do you know what happened?

The vast majority of the calls turned up no fraud and a significant number of them were against people that weren't even collecting welfare.

Do you understand how this relates to your post?

I understand what I see reported and what I have personally experienced. I also understand from years of replies as yours, that many won't accept facts. I have some years in dealing with fraud, using P.I. and medical reviews of claims, but of course my position being contrary to most socialist position will never be acceptable..and I don't give a shit that it won't...used to, no longer.

I've certainly found that it serves no purpose to debate those unwilling to face the reality.

[Topaz]

The rich never like seeing their money go to the government, well neither do the poor or middle incomers, now the rich will experience that. As far as welfare, from what I'm told welfare in Ontario is called ONtario Works, which really only pays a single person enough for shelter but not food and they have to go out a prove they are looking for job by placing resumes and I think they are allowed to make $200 monthly. So welfare isn't the program it was once in Ontario. My understanding is the number of people on it is high because those who loss their jobs, some of them have gone through their EI, RRSP's, life Insurance and now turned to welfare to survive. Those over the age of 55, that have been retrained, still find jobs, mostly the reason of age and future health issues and the business may have to deal with disability to that person.

[cybercoma]

I understand what I see reported and what I have personally experienced. I also understand from years of replies as yours, that many won't accept facts. I have some years in dealing with fraud, using P.I. and medical reviews of claims, but of course my position being contrary to most socialist position will never be acceptable..and I don't give a shit that it won't...used to, no longer.

I've certainly found that it serves no purpose to debate those unwilling to face the reality.

You're actually unwilling to look beyond your own anecdotal experiences that have been shown to be questionable from actual research that has been done into welfare fraud. But you won't see that because you seem to think that your opinions and your own personal experiences are facts that can be translated more broadly to society. It's called myopia.

[madmax]

I have some years in dealing with fraud, using P.I. and medical reviews of claims,

And your point is... I have personal experience with Fraud INSIDE the Insurance industry ripping off consumers with ILLEGAL POLICIES. For every scam an Insurance company investigates...there is someone on the inside just as corrupt.

I have seen massive fraud and corruption in numerous companies and numerous executives. Often this leads to the collapse of a viable operation, (unless its a bank) which is another kettle of fish...

Fraud is not something reserved for the poor or those in need.

Fraud such as ORNG, EHEALTH, or a little Dash of Maddof can cause massive losses to services and sometimes the collapse of a financial sector.

Theres nickle and dime penny ante fraud and then there is the larger frauds ... like Conrad Black types...

Guess which one gets more investigation the former or the latter?

And which one could actually reimburse the public more in results...

[bleeding heart]

I understand what I see reported and what I have personally experienced. I also understand from years of replies as yours, that many won't accept facts. I have some years in dealing with fraud, using P.I. and medical reviews of claims, but of course my position being contrary to most socialist position will never be acceptable..and I don't give a shit that it won't...used to, no longer.

I've certainly found that it serves no purpose to debate those unwilling to face the reality.

The reality as based on your unproveable (at least unproven) personal anecdotes, that "socialists" stubbornly refuse to accept at face value?

[Fletch 27]

Im FINE with taxing the higher eareners, Im one of them!!! BUT!! I am NOT ok with Dalton WASTING my money and funneling towards wastefull programs like all-day-day care simply to funnel more teachers into his "pool of voters". He is WASTING money like a drunken sailer. If there was little or no waste, sure, add to my taxes... NOT NOW! Trim the waste before wasting my additional 2%! Dalton commneting that the money will go towards the defecit is 100% lies.. It will simply assist in funneling ADDITIONAL resources to the teachers unions and Public servants.. Of COARSE he buckled to Horvath,, It was a GODSEND that she positioned this "Tax"

Edited April 26, 2012 by Fletch 27