F-35 Purchase

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah...I hinted at that. Should have been more clear. Standardization is the way for Canada for the most part. The only possible other scenario I can see is a long range interceptor, a dedicated* light attack aircraft...and I mean cheap n' light...plus a modern turbo ASW/Patrol/cruise missile slinger machine. Our Orion/Auroras perhaps could be converted to hold 12 cruise missiles in a rotary type arrangement.

*ie organic to the ground unit and not part of the RCAF. A modern Skyraider or Trojan.

[Guest Derek L]

Yeah...I hinted at that. Should have been more clear. Standardization is the way for Canada for the most part. The only possible other scenario I can see is a long range interceptor, a dedicated* light attack aircraft...and I mean cheap n' light...plus a modern turbo ASW/Patrol/cruise missile slinger machine. Our Orion/Auroras perhaps could be converted to hold 12 cruise missiles in a rotary type arrangement.

*ie organic to the ground unit and not part of the RCAF. A modern Skyraider or Trojan.

But what would Canada need a dedicated interceptor for? Same can be said about COIN aircraft……….A modern fighter can do with modern weapons, anything a dedicated slow moving target aircraft can do, but the inverse is not the case………If we want more dedicated indirect fire support for the army, buy more of these:

I agree about a modern MPA, but the P-8 is where it’s at………..no real point investing more money then needed to keep the Auroras going until they’re replaced.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Derek L

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps...it's a 737 on steroids if you ask me. But if it could toss a few cruise missiles, perhaps we could actually project strategic level force without putting Canadians in harms way.

[DogOnPorch]

If we're only using jets to protect Canada at that point, a non-stealth interceptor might indeed do.

[Guest Derek L]

Perhaps...it's a 737 on steroids if you ask me. But if it could toss a few cruise missiles, perhaps we could actually project strategic level force without putting Canadians in harms way.

The P-8 will carry SLAM-ER......

[Guest Derek L]

If we're only using jets to protect Canada at that point, a non-stealth interceptor might indeed do.

I don't follow, the F-35A will be used by the RCAF and USAF for NORAD flights...........

[DogOnPorch]

If we want more dedicated indirect fire support for the army, buy more of these:

Nice vid.

Still...arty can't get to some nooks n' crannies. The Taliban would have hated these as much as any GA machine. Old or not.

[DogOnPorch]

I don't follow, the F-35A will be used by the RCAF and USAF for NORAD flights...........

You don't need to sell me on it. I think it's pretty cool and is the only LOGICAL choice. I'm just spitballin' for the most part. However, a light attack aircraft of some sort might not be a bad idea as they don't need special strips or a lot of fixing.

[Guest Derek L]

Nice vid.

Still...arty can't get to some nooks n' crannies. The Taliban would have hated these as much as any GA machine. Old or not.

With these, we've been getting into the same nooks as the bombs dropped by aircraft:

[DogOnPorch]

Yes, Excalibur is pretty awesome.

[Guest Derek L]

You don't need to sell me on it. I think it's pretty cool and is the only LOGICAL choice. I'm just spitballin' for the most part. However, a light attack aircraft of some sort might not be a bad idea as they don't need special strips or a lot of fixing.

The CH-146’s after dirt-box actions reports tend to illustrate that we’re nearly there.

[login]

You don't need to sell me on it. I think it's pretty cool and is the only LOGICAL choice. I'm just spitballin' for the most part. However, a light attack aircraft of some sort might not be a bad idea as they don't need special strips or a lot of fixing.

Of course they could be upgraded with AI's and auto target designators these days, re predators.

[DogOnPorch]

I a big fan of Canada using helicopters as per 1st Cav. It's why they were developed, frankly. But, they still can't pack the punch of a real GA machine like say the Skyraider of yore. Now that thing was cheap, indestructible and could carry the same load as a B-17 Flying Fort. But, below is the real future of warfare...

[Guest Derek L]

I a big fan of Canada using helicopters as per 1st Cav. It's why they were developed, frankly. But, they still can't pack the punch of a real GA machine like say the Skyraider of yore. Now that thing was cheap, indestructible and could carry the same load as a B-17 Flying Fort. But, below is the real future of warfare...

But as the old cliché goes, many prepare to fight the last war………..A helicopter might pack less “punch” then a dedicated COIN/CAS aircraft in terms lbs, but a helicopter (Or Predator) armed with Hellfire’s can deliver a knock-out with a single shot…………If more is required, modern fighters and artillery (both tube and rocket) can provide it………..

Also, when contrasting an armed helicopter (like a CH-146) with a Skyraider, the helicopter is more flexible on one of the points you made regarding fast air……….It can be maintained in even more austere conditions then a fixed wing aircraft……..Also the CH-146 can perform numerous other roles (Spec-Ops insertion, MEDEVAC etc) that the Skyraider couldn’t, and in some cases, the helicopter can switch roles all the while on the same mission…………

Don’t get me wrong, an A-10 or AC-130 would be a welcome addition to the Canadian Forces, but with fiscal realities as they are for the Forces, that would be an unlikely option (Barring our old Uncle Sam willed them to us)……..As such, we’re left to options that are within our budget, and we can use for multiple roles……..And are made in Quebec or Ontario.

[bush_cheney2004]

AC-130H/U Spectres cost upwards of $200 million each.

[DogOnPorch]

I'm not anti-helicopter by any means. They are battle winners and made jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft almost a thing of the past as long as you aren't SF or something similar. No...no A-10s for Canada. That old bird is a real killer as long as it has air superiority. Shorts ended up building the Super Tucano....perhaps that would make the snowmobile company happy?

[DogOnPorch]

AC-130H/U Spectres cost upwards of $200 million each.

But Puff was remarkably affordable...lol

[Guest Derek L]

I'm not anti-helicopter by any means. They are battle winners and made jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft almost a thing of the past as long as you aren't SF or something similar. No...no A-10s for Canada. That old bird is a real killer as long as it has air superiority. Shorts ended up building the Super Tucano....perhaps that would make the snowmobile company happy?

But a permissive environment is required for not only the A-10, but the Super Tucano and helicopters themselves………….Since that is a known perquisite, we’re back to looking at what platform is within our budget and has the greatest utility for our Armed Forces…………

As to the snowmobile maker……..piss on them, one of my past employers produces in Quebec the civil variant of these:

[DogOnPorch]

The Kiowa is tried n' true.

Canada tends to fight in permissive environments. No Taliban MiGs...yet...lol.

Edited December 3, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[Moonbox]

But a permissive environment is required for not only the A-10, but the Super Tucano and helicopters themselves………….Since that is a known perquisite, we’re back to looking at what platform is within our budget and has the greatest utility for our Armed Forces…………

Helicopters don't need a permissive environment. The 1991 Gulf War US intervention opened with Apachi Gunships flying low across the desert at night to knock out radar installations.

That being said, I get what you're saying.

[Guest Derek L]

Helicopters don't need a permissive environment. The 1991 Gulf War US intervention opened with Apachi Gunships flying low across the desert at night to knock out radar installations.

That being said, I get what you're saying.

They most certainly do in an environment strewn with enemy aircraft, surface to air missiles and anti-aircraft artillery…………..Even when having air superiority, helicopters and other slow movers can have a difficult time operating in an environment with even a semi-capable air defence network………….See Vietnam or some of the after action reports of the US Army’s Apaches operating in built-up areas during the second Iraq war……….There’s all sorts of parts on a helicopter that don’t react well will bullets……..

As to TF Normandy, they were operating on the peripheral of the Iraqi air defence network, engaging the picket radars, not within the beast itself………..Even allied fast movers, namely RAF Tornados, had an extremely difficult time (losing 10% of their deployed force) with local Iraqi air defences surrounding mostly empty Iraqi airbases………And low-level interdiction was the primary intent, and envisioned role of the Tornados if the balloon had of gun up with the Soviets…….

[DogOnPorch]

Here's a rare occurrence. An RPG (not SAM-7 Grail) hit on an Mi-8 Hip. Keeps flying...lol. Strong like bull. Smart like tractor. You just gotta love how the Allahu Akbars change in tone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MylWCVeevck

Edited December 4, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[Guest Derek L]

Here's a rare occurrence. An RPG (not SAM-7 Grail) hit on an Mi-8 Hip. Keeps flying...lol. Strong like bull. Smart like tractor. You just gotta love how the Allahu Akbars change in tone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MylWCVeevck

Best one I’ve ever heard was a on journalist interviewing a member of the Mujahideen about his thoughts on the Soviets………Said his people weren’t scared of the Russians, but sure feared the Hinds….

[DogOnPorch]

Best one I’ve ever heard was a on journalist interviewing a member of the Mujahideen about his thoughts on the Soviets………Said his people weren’t scared of the Russians, but sure feared the Hinds….

In the early days of the Viet-Nam war...1962 or so...when Choctaws and Shawnees were first deployed to ARVN forces...PLA forces having never seen one, were told by their officers to 'lead the helicopter when shooting at it'. Many US advisors reported furious treeline fire impacting all forward of their landed helicopters as they sat unloading troops.

[Guest Derek L]

In the early days of the Viet-Nam war...1962 or so...when Choctaws and Shawnees were first deployed to ARVN forces...PLA forces having never seen one, were told by their officers to 'lead the helicopter when shooting at it'. Many US advisors reported furious treeline fire impacting all forward of their landed helicopters as they sat unloading troops.

Well, over 3000 Hueys were lost alone in the war, so their aim must have been off.........