U.S. wins hearts and minds -

[Rocky Road]

Well said...

Agreed!

Anyone with any semblance of sanity is gagging at the world we live in and the hegemony that keeps business as usual.

[GostHacked]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/05/07/us-secretly-releasing-taliban-fighters-report-says/

KABUL – The US has been secretly releasing captured Taliban fighters from a detention center in Afghanistan in a bid to strengthen its hand in peace talks with the insurgent group, the Washington Post reported Monday.

The "strategic release" program of high-level detainees is designed to give the US a bargaining chip in some areas of Afghanistan where international forces struggle to exercise control, the report said.

Under the risky program, the hardened fighters must promise to give up violence and are threatened with further punishment, but there is nothing to stop them resuming attacks against Afghan and American troops.

"Everyone agrees they are guilty of what they have done and should remain in detention. Everyone agrees that these are bad guys. But the benefits outweigh the risks," a US official told the Post.

Should an agreement come before releasing HIGH-LEVEL DETAINEES?? I sense an uptick in Taliban perpetuated violence in Afghanistan .... not sure why.... just a 'feeling' I guess.

[bud]

american woman:

this is from the other thread. something that you, not surprisingly, did not respond to. it's become a pattern with you.

link

As others are hoping that it wasn't only the one guy?

there is no 'as others are hoping..' in the equation.

it would obviously be easier for the PR department if they could show the latest incident is the work of 1 crazy person as opposed to the work of a group of soldiers. that's the point i tried to make.

bad news travels faster than good news. in afghanistan, there is far more bad news which is a result of the occupation. a total of 5 afghan weddings have been bombed by u.s. planes. (the number of wedding bombings is according to the afghanis. some of the bombings were denied by the u.s., which were later found to have taken place)

Oh, we could never forget that. You and others of your mindset would never let us.

That you bring up "burning Korans" while discussing a tragedy of this magnitude confirms in my mind that it's more about the criticism than it is this tragedy.

as i mentioned, it's about the disrespect the occupier shows towards those who are being occupied. koran burning, pissing on the dead afghans, keeping afghan body parts as souvenir and of course the thousands of civilians who have been killed by americans and other NATO members is what the afghans see and remember. building a school for girls in kabul is not going to cancel all the negatives.

Interestingly enough, the Taliban is killing innocent people in Afghanistan in response.

As far as I have seen, the Taliban (as well as other factions within Afghanistan) doesn't have any great humanitarian feelings towards the very people who were killed. They have no problem killing innocent Afghan civilians themselves. Three quarters of civilians deaths, according to you, have been at their hands. So what makes them more lovable?

it doesn't make them lovable. i'm sure they're as much disliked (if not more by some) and i'm sure some blame taliban's actions on america's occupation. one thing you need to realize is that there is a big difference between the taliban and the americans. that is, the taliban is not a foreign occupier.

your mentality of either them or us is the problem. why do the afghans have to pick between the americans and the taliban? let the afghans figure this out on their own. the occupation has not worked. after 10 years, what is there besides control over kabul? the number of civilian casualties per year continuse to increase since the occupation started. this is called a failure. time for the occupiers to cut their losses and get out as soon as possible. it's also time for the those who defend the occupations to accept that occupation doesn't work.

so what do afghans think? here is what some of them think:

Popular fury over the killing spree, which brought demands that the United States withdraw earlier than scheduled, could be exploited by the Taliban to gain new recruits.

"We have benefited little from the foreign troops here but lost everything - our lives, dignity and our country to them," said Haji Najiq," a Kandahar shop owner.

"The explanation or apologies will not bring back the dead. It is better for them to leave us alone and let us live in peace."

what about when the u.s. leaves and the taliban regains more control?

"The Americans said they will leave in 2014. They should leave now so we can live in peace," said Mohammad Fahim, 19, a university student. "Even if the Taliban return to power our elders can work things out with them. The Americans are disrespectful."

the hatred for the occupier runs deep.

"The Americans are not here to assist us they are here to kill us," said Najibullah, 33, a house painter in Kabul.

"I hate the Americans and I hate anyone who loves them, so I hope there is no long-term partnership between our countries."

[dre]

Theres no good choices for Afghans unfortunately. Just three shitty ones.

[Guest Manny]

I sense an uptick in Taliban perpetuated violence in Afghanistan .... not sure why.... just a 'feeling' I guess.

I sense that the US is becoming very, very willing to make conciliatory gestures to the Taliban, to strike a deal. Not exactly the behaviour of a conqueror. More like, can we go home now please?

[bush_cheney2004]

I sense that the US is becoming very, very willing to make conciliatory gestures to the Taliban, to strike a deal. Not exactly the behaviour of a conqueror. More like, can we go home now please?

You mean like the late Taliban Jack in Canada?

[Moonlight Graham]

Except that they shouldn't be there, they should be in the countries that the 9/11 terrorists actually came from.

So what do you propose NATO/US do militarily in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere? Al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan, so that's where they went.

[Moonlight Graham]

It's just as I said in the sarcastic "U.S. continues to win hearts and minds" thread - when a U.S. soldier does bad, the whole world reacts - and too many condemn the whole; but when a U.S. soldier does good, there's barely a reaction.

First off, brave guy, a hero for sure.

This just isn't a "whole world" issue though. The controversy of horrible US soldier actions make much bigger headlines in the US media also, compared to heroic stories. I bet a lot to do with it is that news media so often reports the negative stories because they are more controversial and elicit reaction/debate. The news is usually bad news, you don't often hear about the heroic/good stories even when removed from the context of the military. You do have a point, but it's also the nature beast in many ways.

How unfair to those devoting their lives to making Afghanistan and Iraq a better place.

That's just what the recruitment brochure says.

[GostHacked]

So what do you propose NATO/US do militarily in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere? Al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan, so that's where they went.

Most of the hijackers were Saudis, led by a former Saudi. And most likely with a lot of Saudi money. I don't think they would have been able to get away with a camp in Saudi Arabia, and instead chose remote areas in a remote country (not sure how remote it really is .. but...

[Guest American Woman]

Most of the hijackers were Saudis, led by a former Saudi. And most likely with a lot of Saudi money. I don't think they would have been able to get away with a camp in Saudi Arabia, and instead chose remote areas in a remote country (not sure how remote it really is .. but...

I don't think they would have been able to get away with a camp in Saudi Arabia

No, they wouldn't have, but they did get away with it in Afghanistan, which is why we went there.

[eyeball]

So what do you propose NATO/US do militarily in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere? Al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan, so that's where they went.

I guess I should have said, by rights they should be in the countries that the 9/11 terrorists actually came from.

If my proposals had actually been followed decades ago, which is when I started making them, we would have stopped dealing with Saudi Arabia and any other rogue country that commits geopolitical vandalism.

Of course I would fully expect other countries to treat us the same way, by the very same rights, until we cleaned up our own act on the global stage.

[bush_cheney2004]

I guess I should have said, by rights they should be in the countries that the 9/11 terrorists actually came from.

Not necessarily....terrorist organizations will be prosecuted with lethal force wherever they exist, not just where they originally came from.

If my proposals had actually been followed decades ago, which is when I started making them, we would have stopped dealing with Saudi Arabia and any other rogue country that commits geopolitical vandalism.

Sorry...must have missed those. Was it by marine radio or ship-to-shore?

Of course I would fully expect other countries to treat us the same way, by the very same rights, until we cleaned up our own act on the global stage.

Of course....no more kidnapping democratically elected Haitian presidents at gunpoint.

Edited May 8, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

Most of the hijackers were Saudis, led by a former Saudi. And most likely with a lot of Saudi money. I don't think they would have been able to get away with a camp in Saudi Arabia, and instead chose remote areas in a remote country (not sure how remote it really is .. but...

Bin Laden was exiled from Saudi Arabia in 1994 & stripped of citizenship. They were enemies.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

If my proposals had actually been followed decades ago, which is when I started making them, we would have stopped dealing with Saudi Arabia and any other rogue country that commits geopolitical vandalism.

What is "geopolitical vandalism"?

I think US/western relations with Saudi Arabia are an incredible phenomenon given they're a powerful authoritarian, Islamic regime. I think we're lucky relations are so good in many ways. Saudi internal politics & human rights don't mesh with ours and are quite frankly disgusting, but I don't see how that would change if we isolated them like Iran or South Korea. Saudi Arabia could be like Iran for the west but potentially an even greater problem.

Isolating S.A. and refusing to deal with them would do little, modern history has shown that. Where has that worked? Iran, Cuba, S.Korea, Iraq, USSR etc.? It just further antagonizes the relationship and makes them more of a problem and more "rogue". Cooperation and integration seems to work much better, and it's easier to influence changes in a country IMO if you have a good relationship since they're more willing to listen and have more to lose if relations go south. Global security would hit the dirt if the US decided to condemn and isolate countries like Saudi Arabia and China instead of cooperating via common interests with them.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[eyeball]

What is "geopolitical vandalism"?

Disturbing the shit - violating what should be a Prime Directive amongst nations, that of minding their own business.

I think US/western relations with Saudi Arabia are an incredible phenomenon given they're a powerful authoritarian, Islamic regime. I think we're lucky relations are so good in many ways. Saudi internal politics & human rights don't mesh with ours and are quite frankly disgusting, but I don't see how that would change if we isolated them like Iran or South Korea. Saudi Arabia could be like Iran for the west but potentially an even greater problem.

Isolating S.A. and refusing to deal with them would do little, modern history has shown that. Where has that worked? Iran, Cuba, S.Korea, Iraq, USSR etc.? It just further antagonizes the relationship and makes them more of a problem and more "rogue". Cooperation and integration seems to work much better, and it's easier to influence changes in a country IMO if you have a good relationship since they're more willing to listen and have more to lose if relations go south. Global security would hit the dirt if the US decided to condemn and isolate countries like Saudi Arabia and China instead of cooperating via common interests with them.

I hear what you're saying but I also think that the effect of engaging with rogues is a two way street and too many of the people we entrust to actually do the cooperating for our side are behaving a little too much like them for my liking.

I don't think isolationism is the ticket but I certainly do think all trade should be subject to sanctions and tariffs that are directly tied to human rights and especially against countries that aid and support dictatorships or groups of people that routinely violate human rights.

[GostHacked]

Bin Laden was exiled from Saudi Arabia in 1994 & stripped of citizenship. They were enemies.

Fair point.