Youth threatened by growing disparity.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well North American youth is the topic here, we may deviate a little in terms of economics but there is a lot that is similar.

Really...so now you are adding Mexico to the mix? Go ahead and make a case for Canadian "youth disparity", but it ain't about all of North America. American data and bylines apply to the US, not Canada or Mexico.

Canadian youth have long faced economic disparity because of regional economics, regardless of what happens in the US (or Mexico).

Canada

Youth unemployment rate, aged 15-24, both sexes

Year	Value
====    =====
1990	12.3
1991	15.8
1992	17.2
1993	17.2
1994	15.9
1995	14.8
1996	15.4
1997	16.2
1998	15.2
1999	14.1
2000	12.7
2001	12.9
2002	13.6
2003	13.6
2004	13.4
2005	12.4
2006	11.6
2007	11.2
2008	11.6
2009	15.3

Edited March 24, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Rocky Road]

Greece's youth unemployment rate is 50+%

and there are many European countries that aren't far off that.

[bush_cheney2004]

Greece's youth unemployment rate is 50+%

and there are many European countries that aren't far off that.

Right you are, so why all this silly talk about the great "youth disparity" when compared to other nations. Why focus on just the United States, which actually has slightly higher "youth unemployment" than Canada?

[Battletoads]

I did 5 years of undergrad and 4 years of grad school to get my PhD. The undergrad I paid for and accumulated student loans, but grad school in technical fields is usually paid for (by being a research or teaching assistant in the department that you are studying at), so once you're in grad school you can keep living that way for as long as necessary (if you don't have kids to support, etc).

Obviously the demand for the exact specific field I'm in is limited, but that was just an example. There are hundreds of thousands of unfilled engineering jobs, however. And not nearly enough people studying the right things to adequately fill them.

High school is nothing more than glorified day care. You can learn more in an afternoon of browsing wikipedia than in 5 years of high school.

What was your major in undergrad? If you don't mind me asking.

[Rocky Road]

The Boomer Generation had it all.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/boomers-generation-had-everything-it-wanted-and-it-still-does/article2387987/

[Rocky Road]

'US next Greece if debt is not dealt with'

[bush_cheney2004]

'US next Greece if debt is not dealt with'

Greece is next Canada if it doesn't curtail spending.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Any studies breaking down youth unemployment by university degree? It's tough for graduates out there, but I would wager that a lot of the unemployed graduates are in arts. That's the problem when your education system overemphasizes the arts and soft skills.

We encourage children to easily borrow tens of thousands of dollars for a degree when they have no idea what type of career they want to have (or the odds of obtaining it) when they graduate.

I agree.

We need to push studies toward USEFUL knowledge and USEFUL skills that create innovation in USEFUL sectors. The arts and other soft skills are important but, maybe we shouldn't encourage them as much as we do... They may be virtuous but, not really helping Ontario.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Right you are, so why all this silly talk about the great "youth disparity" when compared to other nations. Why focus on just the United States, which actually has slightly higher "youth unemployment" than Canada?

Because it is our neighbour

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Random additions:

High school should socialize you and train you to be a citizen.

All the top earners in my industry are sales people, many of whom came from arts degrees. Communication is important in sales, you see.

However, their degree does not actually contribute to their career. They could have likely taken any degree and ended up successful. Those people exist and end up in sales because sales requires the lowest set of qualifications to get in (lowest common denominator).

People for hobby degrees use it as an argument for them but, the reality is that very few people can climb that high and it is not the norm for arts, history, etc. It is however, the only way for skilled people who take useless degrees to climb. Most of them will actively admit that their degree was useless. At least... in my experience in my industry

Edited April 3, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Rocky Road]

I agree.

We need to push studies toward USEFUL knowledge and USEFUL skills that create innovation in USEFUL sectors. The arts and other soft skills are important but, maybe we shouldn't encourage them as much as we do... They may be virtuous but, not really helping Ontario.

http://www.crisisofcivilization.com - Local economies and scaled down living.

[Michael Hardner]

People for hobby degrees use it as an argument for them but, the reality is that very few people can climb that high and it is not the norm for arts, history, etc. It is however, the only way for skilled people who take useless degrees to climb. Most of them will actively admit that their degree was useless. At least... in my experience in my industry

Degrees are generally useless in that very few work in the fields they studied in. How many mining engineers, civil engineers, mechanical engineers are working in those fields versus software engineering for example ?

Why is a general arts degree deemed useless, but a general science or applied science degree useful ? Why single out the arts ?

It's just a base prejudice as far as I can see. Communication skills are of elementary importance, which includes writing, presenting - skills which are developed through generalized degrees. Also time management and organizational skills come out of such areas of study.

The idea that universities should be replaced by technical training schools is short sighted, in my opinion. How many of our great leaders and captains/captainnes of industry studied history, read Machiavelli or Schopenhauer or Ayn Rand ?

[bush_cheney2004]

....Why is a general arts degree deemed useless, but a general science or applied science degree useful ? Why single out the arts ?

Because one deals with subjective evaluation while the other uses empirical data. There is a reason why the arts are called "bull majors".

[bleeding heart]

And a reason that Economics, the "dismal science" [sic] is part of the arts programs.

[Michael Hardner]

Because one deals with subjective evaluation while the other uses empirical data. There is a reason why the arts are called "bull majors".

What about law ? Next thing you'll be telling me is that we have no use for lawyers.

[Bonam]

What was your major in undergrad? If you don't mind me asking.

http://www.engphys.ubc.ca/

[Bonam]

Degrees are generally useless in that very few work in the fields they studied in. How many mining engineers, civil engineers, mechanical engineers are working in those fields versus software engineering for example ?

Why is a general arts degree deemed useless, but a general science or applied science degree useful ? Why single out the arts ?

It's just a base prejudice as far as I can see. Communication skills are of elementary importance, which includes writing, presenting - skills which are developed through generalized degrees. Also time management and organizational skills come out of such areas of study.

The idea that universities should be replaced by technical training schools is short sighted, in my opinion. How many of our great leaders and captains/captainnes of industry studied history, read Machiavelli or Schopenhauer or Ayn Rand ?

A degree gives you a set of general skills. Communication is certainly one, and it is important. But you might be surprised just how poor the communication skills of someone coming out of an English major might be as soon as they are reading something besides English literature.

For example, I TA'd a course on very very basic Earth and Space science. That course was popular among all departments at the university, and many arts students used it to fulfill their science requirement. The course did have some math, but none of it went beyond arithmetic (add, subtract, multiply, divide, that's it). Just so you could plug some numbers into equations and get some information out. And every student there could do this arithmetic. But now pose a question to them in a word problem that involved them having to understand the sentences, extract the specific information that was being given and the answer that was being asked for, and it was completely beyond most student's ability to comprehend.

And that is precisely the skill that you need in almost every kind of job, whether its anything but the most monotonous physical labour, service, retail, or professional jobs: problem solving. How long do you have to cut this piece of wood so you can nail it to the other two? Problem solving. How to make coffees fastest given the layout of the equipment and supplies that you have so you can get through the most customers? Problem solving. How to make an idiot on the other side of the phone understand that they need to press the reset button on their computer? How to manage your team of employees of varying personalities? How to design a supersonic fighter jet? At the heart of it all is the same skillset: problem solving.

Many arts degrees completely ignore this most fundamental skill that is integral to almost any kind of job. Meanwhile, most technical degrees are predominated by nothing but problem solving.

[Rocky Road]

http://player.vimeo.com/video/39156085

Athens Teachers Union striking.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Rocky Road