DogOnPorch Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 More people in Prison today in the US then at point in Russian History. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) More people in Prison today in the US then at point in Russian History. The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world with 760 prisoners per 100,000 people. Between 2002-2009 the private prison population grew by 37%, while lobbyists spending grew by over 160%. If the DND here was pressured into the F-35s by "industry," then you have to wonder if those lobbyists above didn't also "pressure" the CPC into the Omnibus Crime Bill. Edited April 5, 2012 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago Yep more people today are in Prison in the US then even during the Gulag years in Russia. Maybe that tells you something or maybe it doesn't but it now says a lot about the land of the free today. It is easy in retrospect to take the piss out of Russia for what they did, it takes a different type of person to see something similar today to our free Conservative neighbor to the South. Guess what? They even have more people behind bars then China a Communist country which is 4 times larger then the US. Edited April 5, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world with 760 prisoners per 100,000 people. Between 2002-2009 the private prison population [url="760 prisoners per 100,000 people"]grew by 37%[/url]. Yep in Private Prisons all those people are pretty much free slave labour. One might wonder why all those people are behind bars, I don't. Edited April 5, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 .....If F-15s are truely all that there is, we'd be better off pimping-out our F-18s a bit longer. But to what end? What else are the Americans building? Yup...Canada already rejected the F-15 once before. The Americans scrap more aircraft each year than Canada will buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 As I've said before, we could always re-arrange our fiscal priorities. Judging by their perpetually poor ratings, we could scrap CBC-TV and save a fortune without ticking off a very large number of voters. Most of those would probably be non-Tory supporters anyway so it would make no difference at election time. You talk like a military defense is a luxury, Dr. Dre. If you ever need one and you don't have it, it was a necessity. As I've said before, we could always re-arrange our fiscal priorities. Judging by their perpetually poor ratings, we could scrap CBC-TV and save a fortune without ticking off a very large number of voters Axing the CBC would not even erase the current deficit. Spending priorities dont change easily because all government spending has a constituency that supports it. But if you can get that done, and we are running surpluses again then we could talk about how to spend them. You talk like a military defense is a luxury, Dr. Dre. If you ever need one and you don't have it, it was a necessity. I dont think the military is a luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Yup...Canada already rejected the F-15 once before. The Americans scrap more aircraft each year than Canada will buy. Wow, that's a really compelling argument. Let's buy more aircraft and support the American war toy industry so we can.. scrap them. Where do I send my money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Food for thought Let me see, instead of spending what now appears to be the high side of 30 billion dollars for F35's, we could spend the same money to buy what the Saudi's just did with the Americans. One hundred and fifty four damned fine aircraft. How many more squadrons for the same money? Go ahead make my day. Toss in some A10's i know where we can get 110 of the little birds, It seems there are a number of Galaxy's for sale as well. If we have to go shopping around then do it whole hog. Lets get the biggest bang for our buck that we can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Wow, that's a really compelling argument. Let's buy more aircraft and support the American war toy industry so we can.. scrap them. Where do I send my money? You can continue sending the money to Boeing or Lockheed Martin, just as you did for those fancy new CC-177s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Fuck that. If the government doesn't know everything that's going on at the DND, they should all be fired for incompetence. They damn well better know everything that's going on or at the very least handle it appropriately when they find out things they didn't know. Hilarious. It seems like all the people who were apoplectic over any perceived issue when the Liberals were in government have found forgiveness. Now, suddenly, incompetence and corruption are entirely understandable. How could anyone not know the numbers that were coming out of DND were entirely laughable??? There was plenty of information coming out of the US that indicated the F35's were having performance issues, were going way over budget and were seriously delayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 You can continue sending the money to Boeing or Lockheed Martin, just as you did for those fancy new CC-177s. I'm sure Harper will continue to do just that. Too bad we can't scrap him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 .... There was plenty of information coming out of the US that indicated the F35's were having performance issues, were going way over budget and were seriously delayed. Correct....and customers with firm orders understood that. Countries that were just kicking the tires on the sales lot don't get a test drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Hilarious. It seems like all the people who were apoplectic over any perceived issue when the Liberals were in government have found forgiveness. Now, suddenly, incompetence and corruption are entirely understandable. How could anyone not know the numbers that were coming out of DND were entirely laughable??? There was plenty of information coming out of the US that indicated the F35's were having performance issues, were going way over budget and were seriously delayed. Everyone knew there were problems with the program, well before the election. The government was found in contempt of parliament and brought down because they worked overtime to hide the costs of the program. Have we all of a sudden forgot that Stephen Harper and all of his cabinet ministers actively avoided divulging information to parliament about this very thing. Either they were mislead by the DND and they're incompetent and irresponsible with the public purse, or they knew exactly what was going on and strategically and purposefully engaged in deceit by keeping the real costs of this program from parliament. The latter being one of the most serious wrongs a government can commit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Yep more people today are in Prison in the US then even during the Gulag years in Russia. Maybe that tells you something or maybe it doesn't but it now says a lot about the land of the free today. It is easy in retrospect to take the piss out of Russia for what they did, it takes a different type of person to see something similar today to our free Conservative neighbor to the South. Guess what? They even have more people behind bars then China a Communist country which is 4 times larger then the US. If you and cybercoma want to believe in a fantasy world where the USA is worse than Stalin's Russia, may I also suggest the Tooth Fairy and the ever popular Easter Bunny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Yup...Canada already rejected the F-15 once before. The Americans scrap more aircraft each year than Canada will buy. Indeedy. A pal of mine does just that at Davis–Monthan. Former OV-10 pilot. But, all this snakin' around with hot machines makes me think Canada would be much better off...and more use to NATO/NORAD/etc...by taking care of some of the more mundane aviation tasks. Transports...ground attack...ASW...et al. Unless Russia re-starts Bear/Bison/Blinder/Backfire/Blackjack/??? type strategic bomber production again for some bizaare reason, that is. Edited April 5, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Correct....and customers with firm orders understood that. Countries that were just kicking the tires on the sales lot don't get a test drive! Don't count your orders until they're delivered. They're ridiculous white elephants and any governments that commit billions to them are out of their gourds. Not to mention, they're a completely asinine choice for defending the vast spaces of Canada. Too few of them, single engines (meaning we will lose more of them), limited range. Hey, want a spare Prime Minister? Cheap. Low mileage too - less than 50,000 lies told (so far). He'd fit right in with all of the right-wing, hairball looney-tunes you have down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Don't count your orders until they're delivered. They're ridiculous white elephants and any governments that commit billions to them are out of their gourds. They are being delivered right now to the US Air Force (LRIP). It matters not what Tier 3 partner Canada decides or never decides to do for the overall program run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 They are being delivered right now to the US Air Force (LRIP). It matters not what Tier 3 partner Canada decides or never decides to do for the overall program run. Wow, I'm impressed. Do any of these 30 "showroom models" have software? Oh, wait, still another 6 million lines of code to be written. I'm sure it will all work perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Wow, I'm impressed. Do any of these 30 "showroom models" have software? Oh, wait, still another 6 million lines of code to be written. I'm sure it will all work perfectly. Perfect is the enemy of Good Enough....and another excuse for Canada to continue flying cracked and corroded airframes. Now that perfection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 If you and cybercoma want to believe in a fantasy world where the USA is worse than Stalin's Russia, may I also suggest the Tooth Fairy and the ever popular Easter Bunny? Where did I say that? Don't attribute arguments to me that I didn't make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Canadian A-10s would have been handy in Afghanistan. But then I've chirped often about Canada's need for a light attack aircraft on par with the old Skyraider for organic support. If F-15s are truely all that there is, we'd be better off pimping-out our F-18s a bit longer. But to what end? What else are the Americans building? Who knows what else they are building down there. I can tell you that I liked both of Boeing's X-32 and the Northrop YF-23. The Rafael, Eurofighter Typhoon, and god only knows how many others have already built or are planning to be built. In my view we need more national defense thinking and less force projection thinking. To that end I would suggest a different approach. Why not build/buy unmanned stealthy drones and provide some form of unmanned combat air patrol. We can get away with a handful of true interceptors if we cover our other bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 or you could go to hell That was uncalled for and clearly against the rules! Another example of leftist love and tolerance, perhaps? Agree with me or go to hell? I rarely do this but I have reported your action. Not that I can't handle such invective but I am just worried this board will end up like certain others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I dont think the military is a luxury. Well, then I guess we disagree on what sort of military is truly useful or just symbolic. That's a fair debate! Me, I'll admit to being a bit cranky about the issue. It's my Utilitarian gene that kicks in. If it doesn't really WORK then to me it's just hot air and crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 More people in Prison today in the US then at point in Russian History. There was a time when the entire country of Russia was a prison, punked! Those days could come again. Ask someone who lives in Georgia. Putin hardly comes across as a Russian Jimmy Carter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 or you could go to hell stopstaaron - stop the insults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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