olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Smelling smoke doesn't mean you're getting second hand smoke. People who are concerned about their hygiene don't like smelling like an ash tray Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) This could be an argument for smokers who want to smoke outside http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2010/11/22/pei-smoking-children-asthma-584.html Asthma rates are down for young children in Canada, and researchers are crediting reduced exposure to smoking at home as one of the reasons. A Statistics Canada study released last week showed over the last eight years the number of kids exposed to smoke at home dropped from 24 per cent to just six per cent. That number is down both because fewer parents are smoking, and because parents like Jason Dennis of Prince Edward Island are taking their smoke breaks outside. Edited March 9, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/07/29/f-smoking-statistics.html The percentage of the Canadian population that smokes cigarettes has been dropping steadily since anti-smoking efforts began in earnest in the 1970s. In 1965, 49 per cent of Canadians over the age of 15 smoked. Sixty-one per cent of males smoked while 38 per cent of females indulged in the habit. The latest Statistics Canada figures show smoking rates are fairly stable. In 2010, 20.8 per cent of Canadians aged 12 and over — about six million people — were smokers. Five years ago, there were 5.9 million smokers or 22 per cent of the population. In 2003, 23 per cent of Canadians aged 12 or older, smoked. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Watch for me to become a shrill anti-smoker within the next few hours... I quit smoking 3 days ago ! A born again….the worse, most vile kind of anti smoker. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 How about if I own a club or restaurant and I post a large sign at the door stating that this is a smoking establishment? People who don't like it would be free to go somewhere else! Nope! A non-smoker trumps EVERYTHING! I saw this in the 90's as the new laws banned smoking in clubs. When the smoke cleared out, you could see all the empty tables! It seemed the non-smokers didn't go to clubs much anyway! However, in case they ever did they wanted them to be smoke-free! They got their way but they didn't pick up the slack. Many clubs went under during that time. Naturally, civic politicians didn't like to talk about it because the official line was that smoking bans would only help and not hurt business. Boarding up the windows tending to refute that. They did toss clubs a bone by allowing them to stay open an extra hour, until 2:00 am. Of course, that only meant the club was still empty for an extra hour, increasing the overhead! After about 10 years or so the situation gradually corrected itself but clubs are not what they were and a lot of owners lost a LOT of money! I know from personal experience there was a time in the early 70's when cover bands would tour all over the province doing 3 and 6 nighters at clubs, getting paid enough to make a living. People could afford to go out drinking and dancing 6 nights a week if they chose. Those days are long gone. A single local Friday or Saturday night gig is the norm, for MUCH less money! Remember that when someone tries to tell you that we are just as rich today, after adjusting for inflation! Bill it’s been this way in BC for years too……..Ultimately the greatest deterrence for quitting smoking, is a non-smoking wife (in Healthcare to boot!), that’s forced all lepers to smoke under the porch, constantly dodging the rain drops between the planking of the patio……..We call this area "Flavour Country" Quote
GostHacked Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 I thought you lived in Canada ? This is the nanny state, so live with it. Should it be a nanny state ? No, I don't support the nanny state. Personal responsibility is what I advocate. It's annoying, I'll grant you that, but if I have to pay for your stupidity then your stupidity needs penalties and disincentives. That's the thing, you should not have to pay for anyone elses screw ups. But in this nanny state you seem to support, does exaclty that. Cynical... they don't always get away with it and what kind of logic is that anyway ? If bad behavior goes unpunished then we shouldn't have any laws whatsoever... that's the end state of your logic there. We are letting the government do too much of our thinking for us. It's more to show the absolute obsurdity that is taking place here. If you want the nanny state to protect you against smokers, then you are willing to have this nanny state tell you to wear a nice foam helmet when you leave the house. The owner should have the right to have his place smoking or non smoking. And you have the right to visit or not visit that establishment. And if you are in public, smoke away. Can't be as bad as all that exhaust from cars you are sucking in every day. Even if you don't smoke. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 We are letting the government do too much of our thinking for us. It's more to show the absolute obsurdity that is taking place here. If you want the nanny state to protect you against smokers, More about them protecting smokers from themselves... then you are willing to have this nanny state tell you to wear a nice foam helmet when you leave the house. Well, there's a whole cost/benefit thing but maybe... why not ? The owner should have the right to have his place smoking or non smoking. And you have the right to visit or not visit that establishment. The owner should be prevented from allowing unsafe activities in his or her establishment. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) More about them protecting smokers from themselves... Next they should protect us from sugar!!! Fat people need protecting too. Well, there's a whole cost/benefit thing but maybe... why not ? Well that's a whole other debate on the state of our health care system and how much we collectively put into it compared to what we get out of it. The owner should be prevented from allowing unsafe activities in his or her establishment. Might as well take the fork away from you as well, you might be likely to stab someone with it at the most, injure yourself at the least. Obsurd, right? My pal cut his finger on a glass when doing dishes, broke in his hands. Should I prevent him from doing dishes again? I am sure he won't mind. Edited March 9, 2012 by GostHacked Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Next they should protect us from sugar!!! Fat people need protecting too. Are people dying from sugar ? Well that's a whole other debate on the state of our health care system and how much we collectively put into it compared to what we get out of it. What would we "get" out of foam helmets versus the costs ? Might as well take the fork away from you as well, you might be likely to stab someone with it at the most, injure yourself at the least. Obsurd, right? My pal cut his finger on a glass when doing dishes, broke in his hands. Should I prevent him from doing dishes again? I am sure he won't mind. Sure, let's play that game - I can do it too: the owner should give flamethrowers and hang poisonous snakes from the ceiling because he can... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
dre Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Are people dying from sugar ? Yes... and lots of them. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Michael Hardner Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 Yes... and lots of them. Is that a problem ? That people are dying this way ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Wild Bill Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 And think of all the business we're going to lose when the chemo centres start shutting down... Well Michael, some of us mourn the loss of so much live music of jazz blues and rock & roll. Meanwhile, as long as Walter Ostanek is still playing those polkas I'm sure you will be content! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
eyeball Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Well Michael, some of us mourn the loss of so much live music of jazz blues and rock & roll. Some of us also mourn the loss of our hearing. I'm pretty sure my deteriorating sense of hearing is associated with the decibel level of live music in a few otherwise smoke-filled bars I frequented when I was younger. I guess I could blame the Nanny state for not forcing you damned amplifier techs to place warning labels at the entrance or at least hand out ear muffs but...live and learn the hard way I guess - something I hope I was able to teach my son the sound technician. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
fellowtraveller Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Watch for me to become a shrill anti-smoker within the next few hours... I quit smoking 3 days ago ! Congrats on that, it is not an easy thing to do. It doesnt help, but at 3 days you are actually already over a big physical hump in controlling the addiction. Quote The government should do something.
olpfan1 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Yes... and lots of them. How is that affecting people who are around them? will they get cancer? Quote
capricorn Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Asthma rates are down for young children in Canada, and researchers are crediting reduced exposure to smoking at home as one of the reasons. Many things commonly found in homes can contribute to asthma. Hell, even cockroaches. Droppings or body parts of cockroaches and other pests can trigger asthma. Certain proteins are found in cockroach feces and saliva and can cause allergic reactions or trigger asthma symptoms in some individuals.Cockroaches are commonly found in crowded cities and the southern regions of the United States. Cockroach allergens likely play a significant role in asthma in many urban areas. http://www.epa.gov/asthma/pests.html Maybe there are fewer cockroaches and pests in today's homes. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Wild Bill Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Some of us also mourn the loss of our hearing. I'm pretty sure my deteriorating sense of hearing is associated with the decibel level of live music in a few otherwise smoke-filled bars I frequented when I was younger. I guess I could blame the Nanny state for not forcing you damned amplifier techs to place warning labels at the entrance or at least hand out ear muffs but...live and learn the hard way I guess - something I hope I was able to teach my son the sound technician. If the high sound level bothered you why didn't you leave? Also, you realize that if the volume was dropped to please you the other patrons would not have been happy! That was the scene and anyone who didn't realize high sound levels could be damaging was really not thinking very well. The same with cigarettes! I vividly remember when I was a young lad in the 60's that everyone knew it was an unhealthy habit. When you're young you think you're invulnerable! However, education is one thing but making everyone's decisions for them is quite another. IMHO, a cure much worse than the disease. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
eyeball Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 If the high sound level bothered you why didn't you leave? Also, you realize that if the volume was dropped to please you the other patrons would not have been happy! That was the scene and anyone who didn't realize high sound levels could be damaging was really not thinking very well. The same with cigarettes! I vividly remember when I was a young lad in the 60's that everyone knew it was an unhealthy habit. When you're young you think you're invulnerable! However, education is one thing but making everyone's decisions for them is quite another. IMHO, a cure much worse than the disease. I had no idea high decibels were doing me long term damage at the time. Did you? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Bonam Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 I had no idea high decibels were doing me long term damage at the time. Always seemed pretty obvious to me. When the music is blasting so hard your ears hurt, it can't be good for em. Quote
eyeball Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 Always seemed pretty obvious to me. When the music is blasting so hard your ears hurt, it can't be good for em. Yes but you're obviously a highly gifted young genius with the apparent ability to know everything there is to know about everything. That passes with age by the way, just so you know. I don't recall being supplied with hearing protection in our shop classes in school during the age of rock and roll either so I can allow for the fact that most people just didn't appreciate the damage noise could do back then. I guess the drugs they encouraged us to drink before the band came on masked the pain. I do wonder how long it took however for the music industry to acknowledge the damage they were doing to people. To it's credit I have heard of some bands who do in fact supply foam earplugs for people. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Wild Bill Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 I had no idea high decibels were doing me long term damage at the time. Did you? Absolutely! Then again, I was the kid who actually read books on his own, not just those for school! The fact remains, rock audiences like it loud. If you play it soft, they will leave. Some folks liked Foghat. A few liked Barry Manilow. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Boges Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Posted March 10, 2012 Absolutely! Then again, I was the kid who actually read books on his own, not just those for school! The fact remains, rock audiences like it loud. If you play it soft, they will leave. Some folks liked Foghat. A few liked Barry Manilow. Do you know what's more annoying than someone smoking near me? Going to a bar with a group of friends then some band starts to set up and you can't talk to your friends in 20+ minute intervals without yelling at the top of your lungs. Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 10, 2012 Report Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Do you know what's more annoying than someone smoking near me? Going to a bar with a group of friends then some band starts to set up and you can't talk to your friends in 20+ minute intervals without yelling at the top of your lungs. The situation is self-correcting, Boges. The pay is so poor that fewer bands play in bars! If the present trend continues there will be none. That being said, I can understand if it bothered you. The bar owner of course has to make a choice - can he make enough money on patrons like yourself? Do more patrons want a band or are they like you? Myself, except for the odd time to see one of my favourite customers I rarely go to clubs for music anymore. The scene is so cheap and tawdry from that of my youth that I just can't enjoy myself. You get what you pay for and $200 for a gig split between the entire band means no money for stage clothes, proper sound and lighting or even rehearsals! The small size of most of today's clubs means that they couldn't possibly sell enough beer to such a small number of customers to pay for a decent band. I prefer to just stay home with my vinyl! Edited March 10, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
eyeball Posted March 11, 2012 Report Posted March 11, 2012 Absolutely! Then again, I was the kid who actually read books on his own, not just those for school! And you just knowingly went ahead and help deafen God only knows how many people anyway. Nice. Even your sensitive nose can't tell you why some people might get the notion that the state should intervene in the case of people making a living while knowingly hurting others? By the way I'm completely with you in the matter of the state getting off the backs of people who do things that are harmful to themselves, but that's obviously completely different. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
GostHacked Posted March 11, 2012 Report Posted March 11, 2012 I had no idea high decibels were doing me long term damage at the time. Did you? It's a known fact that long exposure to high decible levels of noise will hurt and degrade your hearing over time. People think this is new? Why do you think people wear ear protection in certain jobs? Quote
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