.

[capricorn]

Del Mastro probably knows more than hes saying.. his name seems to be popping up everywhere

That might be because Del Mastro is the Prime Minister's Parliamentary Secretary.

[olpfan1]

That might be because Del Mastro is the Prime Minister's Parliamentary Secretary.

Del Mastro said there was no misleading robo calls

or did you miss that?

why is harpers close confidente lying to the public?

[olpfan1]

Also Del Mastro said first said he didnt know of a riding called edmonton east

but then said the only calls there his party sent out were polling station changes

but elections canada didnt change any polling station in edmonton east

he got caught in a lie and now hes the # 1 suspect

[Newfoundlander]

Also Del Mastro said first said he didnt know of a riding called edmonton east

but then said the only calls there his party sent out were polling station changes

but elections canada didnt change any polling station in edmonton east

he got caught in a lie and now hes the # 1 suspect

I didn't see him get caught up in a lie, just in stupidity. He said it was possible polling stations in the riding may have changed because there were so many changes.

[olpfan1]

I didn't see him get caught up in a lie, just in stupidity. He said it was possible polling stations in the riding may have changed because there were so many changes.

No, we're not going to write this off as "stupidity" he alleged there was polling station changes in Edmonton East

but according to Elections Canada there was NO polling station changes in that riding

I don't care who the hell you are he got caught in a lie that much is obvious otherwise you're saying the Prime Ministers Secretary is terrible at his job and should be fired.

Which is it? Is he a liar or should he be fired for being incompetent?

[olpfan1]

If the CPC has nothing to hide and they are innocent in all of this why won't Harper agree to call for a fully transparent public inquiry?

[Guest Derek L]

A good piece from Chantal Hébert and The Star, both one could hardly label as in the pocket of the CPC.

Hébert: Robo-call accusations raise uncomfortable questions

If there is a tactical scheme behind the so-called voter suppression scandal, it is not readily apparent in the list of allegedly abused ridings put forward by the opposition parties.

Only a small fraction of the 50 federal seats where the margin of victory was less than 5 per cent last May — and where presumably every vote counted — are alleged to have been targeted by fraudulent calls.

Liberal ridings such as Brampton-Springdale and Ajax-Pickering that were known to be high on the Conservatives’ to-win list (and that they did win) were apparently not plagued by such calls.

On the other hand, a substantial number of the three dozen ridings on the opposition list were safe Conservative seats.

Take the Ontario riding of Wellington-Halton Hills. On May 2, former Conservative minister Michael Chong kept the seat with a majority of 26,000 and 63 per cent of the vote. He clearly needed no help to get re-elected.

Chong has emerged as one of the least partisan voices in Parliament. He resigned from Stephen Harper’s first cabinet over a matter of principle. It is hard to imagine that he would have countenanced party-sanctioned dirty tricks in his riding.

In Simcoe-Grey, the Conservatives won by more than 20,000 votes and the aggrieved Liberals ran fourth, behind the NDP and former Conservative incumbent Helena Guergis.

In the Toronto riding of Parkdale-High Park, both opposition parties have complained that their supporters were victims of early morning or late night calls from people misrepresenting themselves as volunteers for their campaigns. In Davenport, the NDP reported the same complaint.

The Conservatives did not really have a dog in either fight. They ran a distant third in both ridings.

And then did Justice Minister Rob Nicholson (majority 16,000 +) or Conservative incumbent Rick Dykstra (majority 13,000 +) seriously need a dose of dark arts to hang on their Niagara Falls and St. Catharines ridings?

A Machiavellian mastermind could always have orchestrated fraudulent calls to a host of ridings where such tricks were unlikely to affect the outcome for or against the Conservatives just to throw anyone off the scent of an orchestrated pattern.

She does make some good points......Where is the Mens rea?

The Liberals just learned that the hard way when it was found that one of their staffers was responsible for leaking details of Public Safety Minister Vic Toews’ private life on Twitter.

And

When MP Lise St-Denis left the NDP to sit as a Liberal in January, the New Democrats hired a firm to robo-call her constituents of Saint-Maurice-Champlain.

The NDP was not identified as the sponsor of the calls and recipients were not told that if they pressed 1 to signal their displeasure with St-Denis, they would be re-directed to her riding office — where they swamped the phone lines for a number of days.

Throwing rocks at the Conservatives with one hand will achieve little for the common good if the opposition parties are busy expanding their own glass houses with the other.

Good point.

[olpfan1]

Derek

The Conservatives used Rack9 to do robo-calls in Guelph and they admitted to that though there is no election expense claim from the Conservative riding association that shows them using said service.

Who paid for this service for the CPC?

I think if we answer that question we will find the guilty

[Guest Derek L]

Derek

The Conservatives used Rack9 to do robo-calls in Guelph and they admitted to that though there is no election expense claim from the Conservative riding association that shows them using said service.

Who paid for this service for the CPC?

I think if we answer that question we will find the guilty

Who paid for it? I haven’t a clue……..Perhaps a constituency member with their Visa……Maybe they even got Air Miles

Question (Perhaps it’s been asked already), if this were a Tory plot, why would they have the call center identify themselves as Conservatives? You could make a case for the ridings that they just barely won, but in other heavily targeted ridings that they squeaked by, there’s no reports of Robocalls/interference....

Also, as pointed out in The Star article I just linked, why would the CPC target namely safe CPC ridings and riding they had no chance of winning?

That doesn’t make sense!

[olpfan1]

Who paid for it? I haven’t a clue……..Perhaps a constituency member with their Visa……Maybe they even got Air Miles

Whoever paid for it didn't report it to Elections Canada which is illegal. They are by law forced to present to Elections Canada how much they spent.

Question (Perhaps it’s been asked already), if this were a Tory plot, why would they have the call center identify themselves as Conservatives? You could make a case for the ridings that they just barely won, but in other heavily targeted ridings that they squeaked by, there’s no reports of Robocalls/interference....

I think some of these calls were done by accident out of confusion but its clear some of these calls were malicious, we can agree to that can't we?

Also, as pointed out in The Star article I just linked, why would the CPC target namely safe CPC ridings and riding they had no chance of winning?

I can't answer that.. maybe they didn't, maybe it was another party or maybe the people are just making it up

That doesn’t make sense!

A lot of this doesn't make any sense.. all I know is if Harper has nothing to hide he should call a full transparent public inquiry.. not doing so suggests he has something to hide

Edited February 29, 2012 by olpfan1

[bush_cheney2004]

...A lot of this doesn't make any sense.. all I know is if Harper has nothing to hide he should call a full transparent public inquiry.. not doing so suggests he has something to hide

Can't do that in Canada...don't you remember the Gomery Commission and all those gag orders?

[Guest Derek L]

Whoever paid for it didn't report it to Elections Canada which is illegal. They are by law forced to present to Elections Canada how much they spent.

But that, I believe, was for one lone Tory campaign, not the national campaign……….Have you every lost a receipt? Sure it could be by choice, but if they were planning a systemic campaign of election fraud, why not submit the receipt anyways? There is also the possibility that it was forgotten without malice no?

I think some of these calls were done by accident out of confusion but its clear some of these calls were malicious, we can agree to that can't we?

Sure we can, but what percentage and by whom? Evidence has yet to be presented against the Tories in all these reported cases.

I can't answer that.. maybe they didn't, maybe it was another party or maybe the people are just making it up

Exactly, that would be like robbing a bank and asking the teller to put half the stolen funds into your savings account.

A lot of this doesn't make any sense

Exactly……And like pointed out in the Star article, The Conservatives had nothing to gain by doing this in their safe ridings or ridings they had no chance of winning………There is no rhyme nor reason to undertake such a wide ranging illegal campaign for the vast majority of ridings that were effected.

Something certainly is rotten in the Kingdom of Denmark, but there has yet to be creditable evidence showing the National CPC Campaign committed any crime…….At this point speculation is merely that, and we’ll best be served by waiting until the RCMP and Election’s Canada has completed their investigation.

[olpfan1]

Can't do that in Canada...don't you remember the Gomery Commission and all those gag orders?

I remember Harper turning Chretien & Martin on each other during the whole Sponsorship scandal..Harper clearly is a pretty good political strategist.. which is why I don't necessarily think he gave the orders for such a massive fraud but then again he did eventually get caught in the In & Out scandal after 4 years of denying it so he's not perfect at dirty tricks

Harper is smart but he's cornered now, he saw what happened to the Liberals when they called for The Gomery Commission so if Harper calls a public inquiry into this and the CPC is found to be guilty he will meet the same fate the Liberals did...but if he doesn't call an inquiry he will look like he has something to hide

Either way it's risky

[Guest Derek L]

I remember Harper turning Chretien & Martin on each other during the whole Sponsorship scandal..Harper clearly is a pretty good political strategist.. which is why I don't necessarily think he gave the orders for such a massive fraud but then again he did eventually get caught in the In & Out scandal after 4 years of denying it so he's not perfect at dirty tricks

Harper is smart but he's cornered now, he saw what happened to the Liberals when they called for The Gomery Commission so if Harper calls a public inquiry into this and the CPC is found to be guilty he will meet the same fate the Liberals did...but if he doesn't call an inquiry he will look like he has something to hide

Either way it's risky

There’s no need for a public inquiry, the investigation by EC & the RCMP has barley begun.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Harper is smart but he's cornered now, he saw what happened to the Liberals when they called for The Gomery Commission so if Harper calls a public inquiry into this and the CPC is found to be guilty he will meet the same fate the Liberals did...but if he doesn't call an inquiry he will look like he has something to hide...

Whatever...there won't be any public hearings. Does Canada have something to hide?

[olpfan1]

But that, I believe, was for one lone Tory campaign, not the national campaign……….Have you every lost a receipt? Sure it could be by choice, but if they were planning a systemic campaign of election fraud, why not submit the receipt anyways? There is also the possibility that it was forgotten without malice no?

Forgotten? Please don't piss on me and tell me its raining Derek. These are politicians, they've been campaigning for years. They know the rules and what they are expected to show Elections Canada.

Yes, that was one lone campaign but I read reports of other campaigns not reporting what they've paid. I will see if I can find them for you. Maybe they over spent? But don't tell me they "lost" the receipt or "forgotten". Have some respect for my intelligence please.

[Guest Derek L]

Forgotten? Please don't piss on me and tell me its raining Derek. These are politicians, they've been campaigning for years. They know the rules and what they are expected to show Elections Canada.

Yes, that was one lone campaign but I read reports of other campaigns not reporting what they've paid. I will see if I can find them for you. Maybe they over spent? But don't tell me they "lost" the receipt or "forgotten". Have some respect for my intelligence please.

I’m not saying that’s the defiant case, as I've said, I don't know all the facts, but if one is going to commit systemic fraud, why leave such a minor clerical error to come back and bite you in the ass? Also, there’s the possibility, some of these records were never submitted by the CPC, because the CPC never knew about them……….

[CPCFTW]

A good piece from Chantal Hébert and The Star, both one could hardly label as in the pocket of the CPC.

Hébert: Robo-call accusations raise uncomfortable questions

She does make some good points......Where is the Mens rea?

And

Good point.

I could have told you this from the start (and I have). This "scandal" is too amateur to be a heinous CPC plot. I've said all along this is probably some more shenanigans by the opposition trying to backdoor their way into power. The left just can't accept that being a hippy isn't cool anymore (ie. they won't accept that conservative governments were genuinely elected). Same crap happened with Bush vs Gore (Florida) and Bush vs Kerry ("rigged vote machines"). A bunch of sore losers, the lot of them.

Edited February 29, 2012 by CPCFTW

[olpfan1]

I’m not saying that’s the defiant case, as I've said, I don't know all the facts, but if one is going to commit systemic fraud, why leave such a minor clerical error to come back and bite you in the ass? Also, there’s the possibility, some of these records were never submitted by the CPC, because the CPC never knew about them……….

Clearly this person(s) did their very best at covering their tracks if you consider the disposable cellphone which was probably paid for in cash and the phony name.

The campaign manager would have submitted them. I don't for one second believe that person forgot or lost the papers. They are too important and probably could have requested another copy from racknine.

Edited February 29, 2012 by olpfan1

[eyeball]

Even if the Conservative Party released scripts used for pre-vote calls to constituents, none of the opposition would believe they were truly what was used or only what was used, meaning suspicions of Conservative guilt would contine and the Conservatives might appear too desperate to look innocent. That's why it's better for the Conservatives to demand the opposition substantiate their accusations with proof, rather than the Conservatives making a fairly pointless effort to prove their innocence while the opposition sits back and watches; it is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

I'd like to see what the people who made real calls and loaded the robots recall about what was in the scripts.

Why should we disbelieve what they have to say about the veracity or lack thereof of released scripts?

[Guest Derek L]

I could have told you this from the start (and I have). This "scandal" is too amateur to be a heinous CPC plot. I've said all along this is probably some more shenanigans by the opposition trying to backdoor their way into power. The left just can't accept that being a hippy isn't cool anymore (ie. they won't accept that conservative governments were genuinely elected). Same crap happened with Bush vs Gore (Florida) and Bush vs Kerry ("rigged vote machines"). A bunch of sore losers, the lot of them.

I don’t know about that…….Sure some can say this was the Tories……..Some can say this was the Liberals trying to make the Tories look bad……..And some could say this is the NDP, coupled with a plant in the LPC doing the Vikileaks, to make the Tories and the LPC both look bad and hide their lack lustre performance as the Official Opposition………..Some could say this is some outside extremists group, tied with the rouge Parliamentary Paige, Anonymous, the Black Block and Occupy movement to create political instability within our political system……..Or how about Quebec Separatists trying to discredit Federalists?

That’s the beauty of Conspiracy theories………They don’t need to make any creditable sense or be supported by evidence.

[CPCFTW]

I'd like to see what the people who made real calls and loaded the robots recall about what was in the scripts.

Why should we disbelieve what they have to say about the veracity or lack thereof of released scripts?

Because the CPC, the 1%, and the Illuminati will have bribed and otherwise coerced those people.

[Guest Derek L]

Because the CPC, the 1%, and the Illuminati will have bribed and otherwise coerced those people.

More likely, they’ve been shredded or the secret decoder rings destroyed

[eyeball]

Because the CPC, the 1%, and the Illuminati will have bribed and otherwise coerced those people.

More likely, they’ve been shredded or the secret decoder rings destroyed

They shredded those people? Nice, whatever it takes eh?

[Bryan]

I could have told you this from the start (and I have). This "scandal" is too amateur to be a heinous CPC plot. I've said all along this is probably some more shenanigans by the opposition trying to backdoor their way into power. The left just can't accept that being a hippy isn't cool anymore (ie. they won't accept that conservative governments were genuinely elected). Same crap happened with Bush vs Gore (Florida) and Bush vs Kerry ("rigged vote machines"). A bunch of sore losers, the lot of them.

Another thing that occurred to me is the opposition might be doing this, not because they think the CPC is going to take long term heat for it, but to compel them to release information about the inner workings of their campaigns. If it gets released, they'd finally have some insight as to how the CPC has been able to eat their lunch for 5 consecutive elections. They also know that the CPC is not going to release that info willingly, even if they are completely clean. Too much strategic info that there's no chance in hell they'll let anyone from the NDP or LPC see. Then, the opposition can just scream "cover-up" instead.