Justin Trudeau Remarks

Evening Star · February 15, 2012

I actually have only changed my allegiance a couple of times. I simply will support whatever party I think makes the most sense on an important issue.

Your lack of partisan allegiance is one of the things I respect most about your posts.

waldo · February 15, 2012

So perhaps Chretien wouldn't have won those majorities if the Right was separated. He had a distinct advantage.

yes clearly... and now the worm has turned. However, in comparing absolute numbers, Chretien percentages (against the greater number of parties) were larger compared to the Harper number (even against a smaller party number mix). In any case, short of minority governments, whether it ever comes to fruition, considerations toward a merged 'LiberalDemocrat' party, might be the only thing to counter another Harper Conservative majority... short of them self-destructing, which they appear quite capable of doing, given performance to-date.

Smallc · February 15, 2012

Your lack of partisan allegiance is one of the things I respect most about your posts.

I'm actually a Conservative member....but that doesn't ensure that I will support their line...or that I'll stay there if things were to go too far away from what I believe.

waldo · February 15, 2012

I actually have only changed my allegiance a couple of times. I simply will support whatever party I think makes the most sense on an important issue. Right now, and for the conceivable future, that's the Blue one. I can understand, again, how that would confuse you.

yes, I fully recognize your self-acknowledged predilection for pragmatism over principle

Smallc · February 15, 2012

yes, I fully recognize your self-acknowledged predilection for pragmatism over principle

Pragmatism is a principle all it's own. If it works, don't fix it. If it doesn't, don't. My views are completely open to change with new evidence, even if it's very painful at times.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Smallc

Boges · February 15, 2012

Pragmatism is a principle all it's own. If it works, don't fix it. If it doesn't, don't. My views are completely open to change with new evidence, even if it's very painful at times.

Well said, that's how everyone should see the world.

Thinking pragmatism is bad only exposes your own stubbornness to be open to new ideas.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Boges

February 15, 2012

Pragmatism is a principle all it's own. If it works, don't fix it. If it doesn't, don't. My views are completely open to change with new evidence, even if it's very painful at times.

I find it ironic that “progressive” voters would try and alienate any potential Red Tory or Blue Liberal voter and chastise someone for having an “open mind”.......

Just remember smallc, you’re always welcome:

olpfan1 · February 15, 2012

I'm actually a Conservative member....but that doesn't ensure that I will support their line...or that I'll stay there if things were to go too far away from what I believe.

the party you support isnt conservative

tell us 3 things that make harper & company conservative

Smallc · February 15, 2012

Thinking pragmatism is bad only exposes your own stubbornness to be open to new ideas.

I will admit though, to being stubborn with some ideas, such as Canadian unity and universal healthcare...although my views on those have changed over time as well.

Smallc · February 15, 2012

the party you support isnt conservative

tell us 3 things that make harper & company conservative

I don't want them to be complete conservatives. That's the thing. I like when government spends money on projects I consider to be useful. I like when government is open to business investment. I like when government has liberally social views (and this government is on a different page than me in some of those areas, but they are still, at current, the closer to me).

Edited February 15, 2012 by Smallc

olpfan1 · February 15, 2012

I don't want them to be complete conservatives. That's the thing. I like when government spends money on projects I consider to be useful. I like when government is open to business investment. I like when government has liberally social views (and this government is on a different page than me in some of those areas, but they are still, at current, the closer to me).

you like when harper gives big business tax cuts, they make a killing, then close the business and move it out of the country ?

Edited February 15, 2012 by olpfan1

Boges · February 15, 2012

you like when harper gives big business tax cuts,they make a killing Get bought out, then close the business and move it out of the country ?

FTFY

Smallc · February 15, 2012

you like when harper gives big business tax cuts, they make a killing,

Yes, yes I do. It's apparently very attractive for business, and those of us that work for businesses like it (and I don't directly benefit from the cuts, either).

olpfan1 · February 15, 2012

Yes, yes I do. It's apparently very attractive for business, and those of us that work for businesses like it (and I don't directly benefit from the cuts, either).

wel if you ever get asked to take a 40-50% pay cut you might change your mind

Smallc · February 15, 2012

wel if you ever get asked to take a 40-50% pay cut you might change your mind

I'm not sure I see the connection with corporate tax cuts.

CPCFTW · February 15, 2012

Trudeau did win the election.

He was clearly talking about having a party representing Trudeau's supposedly universally Canadian views win an election. :rolleyes:

The reason Trudeau made these comments is probably because the CPC had nearly 50% of the vote outside of Quebec. His Canada is a Canada that the majority of Canadians outside of Quebec do not want, so he wants to force Quebec's political views on the rest of Canada or separate. Pretty pathetic defeatist attitude.

Smallc · February 15, 2012

I don't see how that's relevant to our line of discussion.

Trudeau doesn't represent the will of all Quebecers, and shouldn't be making comments like the one that he did.

The_Squid · February 15, 2012

Trudeau did win the election.

Don't be purposely obtuse.... "Winning" the election means having your party win more seats than the CPC gov't. Sheesh. Do I need to paint you a picture?

When (if) this happens, they can introduce all sorts of legislation to right the CPC wrongs....

Edited February 15, 2012 by The_Squid

Evening Star · February 15, 2012

Tbh, I can imagine a situation where if certain CPC policy tendencies were enabled to go in certain directions because English Canada voted in one or two more CPC governments, I might prefer to live in an sovereign Quebec. However, there has been no sign that they are going to move in strongly socially conservative directions on abortion or same-sex marriage so it seems silly to make those out to be reasons for a current crisis.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Evening Star

CPCFTW · February 15, 2012

d

Edited February 15, 2012 by CPCFTW

Shakeyhands · February 15, 2012

Bob Rae isn't so sure.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-blog/2012/02/theres-something-about-justin.html

Yeah, right Bob.

You disagree that quotes come and go?

February 15, 2012

Tbh, I can imagine a situation where if certain CPC policy tendencies were enabled to go in certain directions because English Canada voted in one or two more CPC governments, I might prefer to live in an sovereign Quebec. However, there has been no sign that they are going to move in strongly socially conservative directions on abortion or same-sex marriage so it seems silly to make those out to be reasons for a current crisis.

A good point……..I’m a member of the CPC (more importantly a donator) and aside from the social Conservative wing, there’s no appetite for bringing up controversial social conservative ideals…….It’s rather simple, we too understand that by implementing said policies, we would alienate our party in the ever important next election……..Too say nothing of the fact that for most, gay marriage and/or abortion isn’t an important issue/concern………

Even the Government today is backing down on the lawful access Bill, saying that they will look at amendments. (Which I think a good thing!)

dre · February 15, 2012

Yes, yes I do. It's apparently very attractive for business, and those of us that work for businesses like it (and I don't directly benefit from the cuts, either).

But if those tax cuts are deficit financed then any "help" businesses get from it is simply an illusion, and all youre doing is guaranteeing tax hikes later on.

dre · February 15, 2012

A good point……..I’m a member of the CPC (more importantly a donator) and aside from the social Conservative wing, there’s no appetite for bringing up controversial social conservative ideals…….It’s rather simple, we too understand that by implementing said policies, we would alienate our party in the ever important next election……..Too say nothing of the fact that for most, gay marriage and/or abortion isn’t an important issue/concern………

Even the Government today is backing down on the lawful access Bill, saying that they will look at amendments. (Which I think a good thing!)

Amendments? But theres no need for the bill at all. Law enforcement can already invade your privacy, they just need to get a court order, which means they have to be able meet a certain threshold in terms of evidence and a reasoned argument.

capricorn · February 15, 2012

You disagree that quotes come and go?

Given Justin's pedigree, you can be sure that what he says in public that is seen as outrageous or notable will be recorded for posterity, just as in PET's case. Here's a sampling just from one 2002 MacLeans interview.

"I get so annoyed at the complacency of Canadians, the idea that we're so virtuous," he declares at one point in the bar. "Look at the facts - we're the largest per capita producers of garbage in the world!"

"Law has come a long way from justice," he says. "It's more about finding loopholes and finagling." Education is now the answer: "Change the fundamental rules of the game by bringing up minds that think differently."

"Canadian values" he says. And what are those exactly? "It's having medicare, having education, being peacekeepers, not having nukes in Canada."

"Quebec will never separate and the reason why is that Quebecers are too politically astute." They see the advantages and reap the benefits of their ambivalence toward the rest of the country. "Quebecers are better voters and better political strategists than any other group in the world," he says. "1995 came as close as it ever will."

"The nation is no longer a legitimate basis for the state and the rights of the individual are never secondary to the rights of the collective."

"I have a calculating side," he says later. "I pretty much don't do anything without being aware of the consequences."

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/articles/macleans/justin-trudeau-profile

Very heady stuff.