MiddleClassCentrist Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 According to Hudak his platform was “more of a critique of the way things are, than a vision for the way things could be” The Globe Hudak has already shown some contrition for the party's defeat in the Oct. 6 vote, saying he appeared to be auditioning for the job of Opposition leader and that's what he got. CBC Almost as if he read my posts on MLW. ---- At very least, the party understands that it can't keep changing leaders and expect to win. Hudak will be a known that has (hopefully) learned from his mistakes and there should (hopefully) be new Liberal blood by next election making it a more competitive election. Well, competitive in a better sense of the meaning maybe. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Topaz Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 Is that all the PC's can offer as a leader?? Quote
Guest Peeves Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 Is that all the PC's can offer as a leader?? To this point in time yes he's the choice. It's time the party got their ducks in order as to what it will take to beat the Liberals. Personally I don't much care for Hoodat. We gave the election away...again. Quote
TheNewTeddy Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 I find it amusing that after Ontario rejected the too-rightwing PC platform, Hudak intends to fix this, by being more rightwing Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Wild Bill Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 I find it amusing that after Ontario rejected the too-rightwing PC platform, Hudak intends to fix this, by being more rightwing When did Ontario reject the "too rightwing PC platform"? After Harris, I wasn't aware that they ever again presented one! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
olpfan1 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) The Ontario PCs probably didn't think they have someone that could be an improvement over Hudak. Which, if you're a PC, should be scary. Edited February 12, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
TheNewTeddy Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 When did Ontario reject the "too rightwing PC platform"? After Harris, I wasn't aware that they ever again presented one! May I use this quote in my sig? This is a perfect template for the kind of thinking that plagues the Ontario PC Party. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
MiddleClassCentrist Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Posted February 12, 2012 When did Ontario reject the "too rightwing PC platform"? After Harris, I wasn't aware that they ever again presented one! Hudak was somehow going to bring the deficit in line without making significant cuts. That's far right wing. Right? heheh. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Wild Bill Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 Hudak was somehow going to bring the deficit in line without making significant cuts. That's far right wing. Right? heheh. Really? If you say so. Dunno if anyone else would say so but whatever blows your kilt up! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Wild Bill Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 May I use this quote in my sig? This is a perfect template for the kind of thinking that plagues the Ontario PC Party. After more than 40 years of watching Canadian politics I would say that Harris was the first and only rightwing PC leader in Ontario. I realize that there are many partisans in other parties who will keep trying to use Harris' name as some kind of boogey man to try to keep another such PC leader from coming along. After all, Harris won two HUGE back to back majorities! Neither of the other parties has ever done even remotely as well! After Harris, the "red" wing of the PC party took back control and offered Ernie Eves. Not surprisingly, he bombed at the ballot box! So for some to claim that Ontario rejected the Harris style of government is a bogus statement. Ontarioans were never given that choice! I will agree that its perfectly possible that they would, if given that choice again. Or they might once again embrace it! Anyone who claims they can speak with certitude on an untested premise is running on partisan faith and not reason. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Guest Peeves Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 After more than 40 years of watching Canadian politics I would say that Harris was the first and only rightwing PC leader in Ontario. I realize that there are many partisans in other parties who will keep trying to use Harris' name as some kind of boogey man to try to keep another such PC leader from coming along. After all, Harris won two HUGE back to back majorities! Neither of the other parties has ever done even remotely as well! After Harris, the "red" wing of the PC party took back control and offered Ernie Eves. Not surprisingly, he bombed at the ballot box! So for some to claim that Ontario rejected the Harris style of government is a bogus statement. Ontarioans were never given that choice! I will agree that its perfectly possible that they would, if given that choice again. Or they might once again embrace it! Anyone who claims they can speak with certitude on an untested premise is running on partisan faith and not reason. Harris said what he'd do and did what he said. That confused the hell out of the socialists, and the taxpayers understood and supported him. I would again. Dalton lies. Quote
Boges Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 McDalton got a second shot so I think Hudak probably should. John Tory would have gotten another chance if he picked ridings he could win a seat in. And yes his platform wasn't Right-wing enough. The Drummond Report is going to make Hudak's platform look leftist in comparison. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted February 14, 2012 Report Posted February 14, 2012 McDalton got a second shot so I think Hudak probably should. John Tory would have gotten another chance if he picked ridings he could win a seat in. And yes his platform wasn't Right-wing enough. The Drummond Report is going to make Hudak's platform look leftist in comparison. The Drummond report. A political budget hedge so undaunted Dalton can impose belt tightening and pass the blame to Drummond. "It was was Drummond's idea." "That was what Drummond suggested." "We're following Drummond's advice." Ad nauseam. Quote
Boges Posted February 14, 2012 Report Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) The Drummond report. A political budget hedge so undaunted Dalton can impose belt tightening and pass the blame to Drummond. "It was was Drummond's idea." "That was what Drummond suggested." "We're following Drummond's advice." Ad nauseam. Well he's already backed off axing Full-Day Daycar. . . ERRRRRRR Kindergarten. Today a leak from the Drummond report say that he'll recommend canceling the Post-Secondary tuition rebate McDalton ran on. He also is going to recommend banning students from doing a 5th year of high-school just to improve grades AKA as the "Victory Lap" Lots of education recommendations should be in there. I actually wonder if he'll do any of it. Edited February 14, 2012 by Boges Quote
TheNewTeddy Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 After more than 40 years of watching Canadian politics I would say that Harris was the first and only rightwing PC leader in Ontario. I realize that there are many partisans in other parties who will keep trying to use Harris' name as some kind of boogey man to try to keep another such PC leader from coming along. After all, Harris won two HUGE back to back majorities! Neither of the other parties has ever done even remotely as well! After Harris, the "red" wing of the PC party took back control and offered Ernie Eves. Not surprisingly, he bombed at the ballot box! So for some to claim that Ontario rejected the Harris style of government is a bogus statement. Ontarioans were never given that choice! I will agree that its perfectly possible that they would, if given that choice again. Or they might once again embrace it! Anyone who claims they can speak with certitude on an untested premise is running on partisan faith and not reason. I am a partisan, I was a member of the Ontario PC Party when John Tory was leader. As a pro PC Partisan, I am waiting for another moderate leader so I can rejoin the party. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Wild Bill Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I am a partisan, I was a member of the Ontario PC Party when John Tory was leader. As a pro PC Partisan, I am waiting for another moderate leader so I can rejoin the party. Then why don't you just vote liberal? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
TheNewTeddy Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 The Ontario Liberals are at the bottom of my voting totem pole. Last election I was going to vote Green, but ended up voting NDP. I'd never vote for the federal NDP however, they are at the bottom of my federal totem pole. I'm a member of the federal Liberals, but in the last election, I voted Green. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Wild Bill Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 The Ontario Liberals are at the bottom of my voting totem pole. Last election I was going to vote Green, but ended up voting NDP. I'd never vote for the federal NDP however, they are at the bottom of my federal totem pole. I'm a member of the federal Liberals, but in the last election, I voted Green. Well, as an old guy who has been observing these parties since he was a kid, I see precious little difference in real world approach and philosophy between the provincial Liberals and the Red Tory wing of the Ontario PC Party. Hudak and his handlers seem to be trying to have it BOTH ways! They wish to appear like Harris to those who voted for Harris and want to be "not at all like Harris but still different from those Liberals!" to all the other voters! This is precisely the sort of thing that Harris ran AGAINST! Politicians are held in such contempt because they are like pop music, all sizzle and no steak, all symbolism and no substance. They will be whatever will win some votes, changing like a chameleon even when walking from one side of a small room to the other. Harris took a stand! He was what he was and made no apologies for it! Voters responded overwhelmingly. Ever since, no other Ontario politician has even come close! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
TheNewTeddy Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I agree that the OLP and Red OPC are identical, but at least one has integrity. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
MiddleClassCentrist Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Posted February 18, 2012 So for some to claim that Ontario rejected the Harris style of government is a bogus statement. Ontarioans were never given that choice! I will agree that its perfectly possible that they would, if given that choice again. Or they might once again embrace it! Anyone who claims they can speak with certitude on an untested premise is running on partisan faith and not reason. I find it kind of amusing that people think they weren't right wing enough... When you are the only right wing party... you aren't going to lose right wing votes to centrists and leftists. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
MiddleClassCentrist Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Posted February 18, 2012 I agree that the OLP and Red OPC are identical, but at least one has integrity. If People believed that this PC party was going to be a RED PC party, maybe they would have won. It's the fear that they are too far right wing crazy that keeps people away. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
TheNewTeddy Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 If People believed that this PC party was going to be a RED PC party, maybe they would have won. It's the fear that they are too far right wing crazy that keeps people away. This. Leslie Frost was the best Premier we ever had. Today, the politicos will tell you that you can have either or, subways or highways, etc. Frost not only built the subway, but he built the 401, and brought in human rights on the side. Frost did things in the 50's we can't do today. We need another Leslie Frost. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Wild Bill Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I find it kind of amusing that people think they weren't right wing enough... When you are the only right wing party... you aren't going to lose right wing votes to centrists and leftists. Well, I guess it depends upon what you call right wing, or left wing. Over the years the centre seems to have drifted, at least for some. That being said, you're right that if there is only one "right wing" party you aren't going to lose votes from that demographic. Still, that is only true as long as that kind of situation lasts. Back in Mulroney's day, the PCs of that time had exactly the same attitude. They even had a term for it - "disenfranchised conservative", meaning a conservative voter that didn't really like their party but had no other alternative for his vote. That kind of attitude had worked for generations in politics but times had changed. It wasn't that long after all the social changes of the 60's and early 70's. People were demanding more participation in the political process and were no longer as willing to just put their faith in a party and let it do whatever it wanted to do. As I said, the system had been working until enough people got frustrated to the point of forming their own alternative party. At that point, they garnered support faster than a club posting a "Free Beer!" sign! Reform took literally millions of voters away from the PCs, including almost all of their campaign riding "grunt" workers, who had always did all the work of raising money, manning phones and banging up election signs but were summarily blown away whenever they wanted to be included on any policy or leadership decisions. If you force people to support you by limiting their choices sooner or later they will figure out what you've done. At that point, they may not be able to do anything about it but they will slowly get more and more resentful. If someone comes along with another choice they will steal that support away from you in the twinkling of an eye! It happened before. It can happen again. Harper seems to have forgotten that. Hudak had best remember the example! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
TheNewTeddy Posted February 22, 2012 Report Posted February 22, 2012 I'd not be opposed to a provincial Reform Alliance, or, another federal one. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
treehugger Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 McDalton got a second shot so I think Hudak probably should. John Tory would have gotten another chance if he picked ridings he could win a seat in. And yes his platform wasn't Right-wing enough. The Drummond Report is going to make Hudak's platform look leftist in comparison. John Tory: The only thing Conservative about him is last name! Quote
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