Oil sales, human rights on Stephen Harper’s agenda in China

[mentalfloss]

And pandas..

Oil sales, human rights on Stephen Harper’s agenda in China

The prime minister is courting China as a customer for Canadian natural resources — insisting it’s in Canada’s national interest to send oil and gas to Asia — and looking to sew stronger economic ties with the world’s fastest-growing economy.

To do so, he has brought a handful of senior cabinet ministers and a few dozen Canadian business leaders with him on the trip, including executives from the petroleum, aerospace, forestry, agriculture and uranium sectors. Chinese-Canadian community leaders and the president of the University of Western Ontario are also in the country to attract China’s best and brightest to Canada.

At the same time, the Conservative government says it’s “disappointed in the extreme” with China for vetoing, along with Russia, a United Nations resolution effectively calling on Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to quit in hopes of ending the bloodshed in that country.

Harper is also looking for commitments to improve human rights in the world’s most populous country and will have a chance to deliver the message directly to China’s current and incoming leadership during a series of bilateral tete-a-tetes over the next four days.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/07/oil-sales-human-rights-on-stephen-harpers-agenda-in-china/

[eyeball]

We don't need no steenkin blood pandas.

[mentalfloss]

We don't need no steenkin blood pandas.

C'mon now.. this is 2012, not 2006.

[scribblet]

We've had them before, the Toronto zoo was very pleased and will be again. Scotland has two of them now.

[fellowtraveller]

Harper is doing the same old song and dance everybody does with China. A polite exchange of differing views on human rights, then down to business, which is.... business.

The Chinese will tolerate a bit of grandstanding from foreign leaders on this, they know it plays well at home, but only a bit. They expect foreign leaders to deliver their pitch at their earliest convenience. Canada is trying to horn in on Australias turf as resource supplier to China.

[Topaz]

Harper was big on Human Rights on China when he first got to the PMO but now as it has been said, he's doing anything to sell Alberta's oil and what Canada will get back are the toxics that are taken out and shipped back to Canada in products like we do now or worse. If Harper could work as hard of getting jobs outside of the gas and oil industry, Canadians would be a lot happier.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Harper was big on Human Rights on China when he first got to the PMO but now as it has been said, he's doing anything to sell Alberta's oil and what Canada will get back are the toxics that are taken out and shipped back to Canada in products like we do now or worse. If Harper could work as hard of getting jobs outside of the gas and oil industry, Canadians would be a lot happier.

I suspect you are referring to the now newly killed off manufacturing sector in Ontario...

[AusKanada]

I think having deals with China, including for our energy sector, are forward-thinking. We do have to consider that many government-owned Chinese corporations have billions in stock and investment in the Alberta Tar Sands (which again is not inherently bad). What is however that these corporations that own stock in Syncrude for example have made clauses that say Syncrude CAN NOT refine that oil in Canada... they want it refined in China so they can have more high paying jobs there. I don't think Canada should relegate itself to a colonial offshoot of the U.S. or China. To be fair though, it would take billions to invest in refineries here and it'd take years to get them ready so it's not so cut and dry either.

Manufacturing has been dead in Canada and the U.S. ever since corporations could freely move their capital to the Third World. They have been on life-support for decades.

[Shady]

Manufacturing has been dead in Canada and the U.S. ever since corporations could freely move their capital to the Third World.

Since their capital is private property, they've always been able to freely move their capital, to wherever they want to put it. Just as you are able to do with yours.

[mentalfloss]

Since their capital is private property, they've always been able to freely move their capital, to wherever they want to put it. Just as you are able to do with yours.

It goes without saying there should be tighter restrictions on business owners and corporations.

[CPCFTW]

It goes without saying there should be tighter restrictions on business owners and corporations.

No it doesn't.

First of all, anyone with a mutual fund or pension plan is likely a "business owner". Secondly, corporations create jobs and produce goods with their capital, what do you do with your "capital" besides consume Chinese made products?

[bjre]

Economy is economy, human rights is human rights.

Besides, I don't think Canada's human right situation is better than China. Here are two of previous posts:

Are you free in Canada?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=15225&view=findpost&p=475395

So you still think you have human right and freedom?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=16681&view=findpost&p=555437

[guyser]

First of all, anyone with a mutual fund or pension plan is likely a "business owner".

You have got to be kidding!

Secondly, corporations create jobs and produce goods with their capital, what do you do with your "capital" besides consume Chinese made products?

So when that Corp in Alberta closed shop ,failed to pay workers bills and left a polluted site, headed for the airports and esconced all the executives back in Asis, where they are not able to be extradited nor sued, you are A-Ok with that?

[guyser]

Besides, I don't think Canada's human right situation is better than China. Here are two of previous posts:

The bold part is your problem.

If perchance you investigated the two countries you would know, not think, that Canada's record for Human Rights far surpasses China's. Kind of like comparing Porsche to Lada .

[Shady]

It goes without saying there should be tighter restrictions on business owners and corporations.

What somebody decides to do with their capital and private property is none of your business.

[CPCFTW]

You have got to be kidding!

So when that Corp in Alberta closed shop ,failed to pay workers bills and left a polluted site, headed for the airports and esconced all the executives back in Asis, where they are not able to be extradited nor sued, you are A-Ok with that?

Huh? Can you be a little more specific?

Regardless, a few anecdotes doesn't change the fact that we should be encouraging, not discouraging, businesses and corporations to create jobs.

Individuals always pollute and "rape" the environment, why the double standard for corporations? Just because corporations aggregate the pollution demands of society into specific locations? Corporations aren't the problem, 7 billion "apex predators" is the "problem".

[guyser]

Regardless, a few anecdotes doesn't change the fact that we should be encouraging, not discouraging, businesses and corporations to create jobs.

No one said we shouldnt be encouraging. Where does that come from?

Individuals always pollute and "rape" the environment, why the double standard for corporations? Just because corporations aggregate the pollution demands of society into specific locations? Corporations aren't the problem, 7 billion "apex predators" is the "problem".

No double standard at all.

'People' are identifiable, corps aren't .

And when the mess is left behind, it is the people who have to pay to clean it up.

I say this about CDN Corps too , for instance mining outside of this country, we have a horrible track record of doing just that. "We got what we want, lets get outta here !"

Edited February 7, 2012 by guyser

[Shady]

'People' are identifiable, corps aren't .

Well, the people that work for and in charge of corporations are certainly identifiable.

And when the mess is left behind, it is the people who have to pay to clean it up.

I'm all for cleaning up messes, but that's not what we were talking about.

[guyser]

Well, the people that work for and in charge of corporations are certainly identifiable.

The People who 'work for' are non-liable.

The 'in charge' can run off to a non-extraditable spot. Thats what i am talking about. And if not, it takes years and years of lititgation that shouldnt be there

I'm all for cleaning up messes, but that's not what we were talking about.

CPC was talking about it. He is all for unfettered free market.

[bjre]

The bold part is your problem.

If perchance you investigated the two countries you would know, not think, that Canada's record for Human Rights far surpasses China's. Kind of like comparing Porsche to Lada .

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/bc-aboriginals-ask-china-to-raise-human-rights-issues-with-harper-on-pms-visit/article2328592/

Aboriginals from British Columbia have asked China's president to quiz Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Canada's human rights record during his visit to the Asian country.

The Yinka Dene Alliance, a group of five First Nations that represent several thousand people in north-central B.C., has sent open letters to Chinese President Hu Jintao and to the Chinese media.

“We are writing to you to request that you raise our human rights concerns with Canada's prime minister, Stephen Harper,” says the letter to Mr. Hu.

“From previous reports we know that Prime Minister Harper always challenges your country on the human rights record.”

Sing Tao, Hong Kong's second-largest newspaper with offices across Canada, confirmed it will be covering the story through its Vancouver bureau. The letter to Mr. Hu has been sent to his office as well as to the Chinese embassy in Ottawa.

[guyser]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/bc-aboriginals-ask-china-to-raise-human-rights-issues-with-harper-on-pms-visit/article2328592/

So? That tells one nothing at all.

Tell ya what, when the PM and his cronies have people disappear forever, then you can come back here and gloat.

Until then you would be wise to learn how horrible China's human rights record is and stop this silly idea of yours as respects human rights here and the CAS .

[bjre]

So? That tells one nothing at all.

Tell ya what, when the PM and his cronies have people disappear forever, then you can come back here and gloat.

Until then you would be wise to learn how horrible China's human rights record is and stop this silly idea of yours as respects human rights here and the CAS .

http://andrewfrank.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Yinka-Dene-Letter-to-President-Hu-Jintao.pdf

Since colonization Canada has forced us to live under an Indian Act, a piece of federal legislation

that restricts our rights and freedoms. During colonization our territories were taken away, along

with our voting rights and ability to hire legal counsel for to negotiate the return of our lands. In

recent years, with the patriation of Canada’s Constitution (1982) including the creation of Section

Aboriginal communities in Canada live at the margins of society – in abject poverty with appalling

conditions. Recently the community of Attawapiskat was highlighted in the news for the extreme

conditions with lack of housing, running water and sewage. Attawapiskat is one of more than 100

First Nations communities in Canada that face this reality. These conditions violate the adequate

standard of living guaranteed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the rights to

adequate housing, education, and other rights guaranteed in the International Covenant on

Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

We have other examples that we feel should be highlighted in your meeting with Canada’s Prime

Minister. These are only a few examples in the recent history of human rights abuses against

Aboriginal people committed by Canada – in violation of Canadian law and of International law:

* Missing and murdered Aboriginal women. More than 580 aboriginal women and girls in Canada

are missing or murdered and there is little to no support by the governments to undertake a

national inquiry.

* Prisons. Canada’s prisons are overflowing with our people. Nationally our people amount to

about 4% of the population of Canada and the jails in our area comprise 80% of the prison

population. Canada’s response is to build more prisons instead of working with our people to find

solutions.

* Mr. Dudley George, Ipperwash, Ontario. During a 1995 dispute in Ipperwash Provincial Park,

Ontario an Ontario Provincial Police officer killed Dudley George, an unarmed First Nations person.

Often the police have taken hostile approaches to situations that are impacted by unresolved land

and treaty rights. A judicial inquiry found evidence of government wrongdoing in this case.

* Mr. Frank Paul. In 1998 police in Vancouver callously dragged this homeless First Nations

member from the confines of a police wagon and dumped him in the alley outside to freeze to

death. A judicial inquiry found evidence of government wrongdoing in this case.

* Mr. Clayton Willey. In 2003 police tortured this Aboriginal man in a Prince George jail cell. He was

tasered numerous times while his hands and feet were bound. He died of a heart attack while in

police custody.

* Saskatchewan freezing deaths. In the past there have been numerous deaths that we feel were

caused by the Saskatoon Police Service. Accusations have been made that police officers would

arrest aboriginal men and drive them to the outside of the city in the middle of winter and abandon

them. Some men of died from hypothermia due to these practices. A judicial inquiry has found

evidence of government wrongdoing in connection with these deaths.

[guyser]

http://andrewfrank.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Yinka-Dene-Letter-to-President-Hu-Jintao.pdf

Here , in plain language.....you are an idiot if you think Canada is worse than China in Human Rights.

Simple enough?

Does Canada have shame on its hands? Of course ! No one will deny that.

But we are talking about current, ongoing, abuses and murder of citizens by the gov't , and whether you want to believe it or not, it does not occur here in Canada.

Edited February 8, 2012 by guyser

[bjre]

Here , in plain language.....you are an idiot if you think Canada is worse than China in Human Rights.

You have continuously loosing your arguments, until now, you have to use idiot.

Is United Nation also an idiot?

'Lost Canadians' leads UN to cast Canada's laws in same light as Vietnam, Zimbabwe

Katie Derosa, THE CANADIAN PRESS

.....

Canada is "now listed in the lowest of the low in countries that have made people stateless," he said.

"It's so appalling that Canada would make a list of the worst of the world," he said. "These are not the countries you want to compare your human rights records to."

....

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1078933

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3b672e98-c5d0-4cde-b523-1fb5de40ef99

Simple enough?

Does Canada have shame on its hands? Of course ! No one will deny that.

But we are talking about current, ongoing, abuses and murder of citizens by the gov't , and whether you want to believe it or not, it does not occur here in Canada.

Has all the CAS been closed?

Canada’s leaders claim that Canada will always bo the truth north, strong and free.

However, many every day, hard working Canadians say otherwise.

Canada’s leaders claim that Canaadians have a great country that all Canadians believe in.

However, many everyday, hard working Canadians say otherwise.

Canada’s leaders claim to be doing all that they can to protect the earnings, savings and the opportunities of all Canadians.

However, many everyday, hard working Canadians say otherwise.

Here is the video:

I am ashamed to be a Canadian.

So much so, I don’t want anything to do with this country.

I am leaving this week, and hopefully, I won’t ever be back.

I think the system here, it’s an embarrassing.

I used to be really proud to be a Canadian (with crying voice), since I was raised to believe about justices, and human rights, and community…… but I’ve found out that it is so not true. … you have no rights, and your rights you try to exercise, they squash you right from the start, … and you pretty much know that the decisions that have been made are because the fact that you try to exercise your right, Canada is supposed to be known worldwide for all the work we do for human rights, yet we don’t have any here. I am truly ashamed to be a Canadian, … I was born and raised in Canada, I have what I thought Canadian values, I am leaving this country now, and I feel that I have to, just in order to retain my basic human rights…

http://www.fixcas.com/scholar/fatal.htm

In an article by Vivian Song published in the April 2, 2006 Toronto Sun, she says Ontario Deputy Chief Coroner Dr Jim Cairns presides over the deaths of about 70 children a year involved with CAS. This is the highest reported death rate, but the article does not define what is meant by "involved". On January 25, 2007 reporter Haley Mick in the Globe and Mail quoted Mr Cairns saying approximately 80 children die each year with open CAS files. The number includes deaths in foster care plus in-home deaths of children under watch. A document titled Report of the Paediatric Death Review Committee and Deaths Under Five Committee from the Office of the Chief Coroner, Province of Ontario (2007) contains the statements on page 22:

83 children died with an open file or having had an open file to a CAS within the previous 12 months

19/83 children were in the care of CAS (10 were Crown Wards; 2 were on an Extended Care and Maintenance program)

http://www.fixcas.com/news/2006/suffer.htm

But what happens once these children are taken away from their families and placed into the child welfare system?

Between April 1, 2004, and March 31, 2005, the 53 Children's Aid Societies in Ontario provided substitute care to 30,423 children.

They responded to 44,375 inquiries under investigation and protection services and completed 82,137 investigations, including dozens of child deaths and hundreds of allegations of abuse and mistreatment.

In documents obtained from the ministry of children and youth services under the Freedom of Information Act, the CAS of Toronto -- which works with 33,351 children -- reported the deaths of 12 clients and received 176 allegations of abuse in 2004.

One boy died of strangulation after he was found hanging in his closet. Another died when he fell from his balcony, and a girl died from a skull fracture and brain injury. Her mother faces charges.

Meanwhile, the number of cases alleging abuse increased from 147 in 2003 to 176 in 2004. Of these, 68 were allegations of mistreatment, including inappropriate discipline of children by foster parents or residential staff.

But perhaps more than any other CAS, the Catholic CAS made the most repeat appearances in the media.

In addition to the Baldwin case, the agency is feeling the heat for placing children in the care of Paul Blackwell, a foster parent who last month admitted to sexually abusing two Crown wards.

Between 2000 and 2004, the number of serious occurrences reported within the CCAS almost doubled, from 220 to 406. The agency serves 18,588 children.

In 2004, the CCAS reported the deaths of nine clients while under their care and 39 allegations of abuse.

A few of the deaths were anticipated because of existing medical conditions but one instance was a mother-and-son murder suicide.

For Cairns, who boasts a prolific career with 31 years of experience working with the dead, the unidentified children who make up these statistics in the report all have faces and names.

[WWWTT]

So? That tells one nothing at all.

Tell ya what, when the PM and his cronies have people disappear forever, then you can come back here and gloat.

Until then you would be wise to learn how horrible China's human rights record is and stop this silly idea of yours as respects human rights here and the CAS .

Oh you sound like you know China very well.

How many times have you bein there?And where in China have you visited and for how long?

How many Chinese people do you know?Do they have names?

WWWTT