So does this make your blood boil?

[eyeball]

With all of the terrible things going on in the world, seriously, how high would you rate this? I don't think it's that people are apathetic, but in light of all the truly sad things going on, they just don't rate this incident that high.

Not very high in terms of sheer cruelty I guess. As for the reaction to it I would say it's on par with the way people of faith close around their church when one of their priests are caught diddling a weaker little kid. I suppose, semper fidelis apparently shares a similar meaning in the case of soldiers and priests.

You, on the other hand, display more concern over it than you do murders by terrorists, terrible things that the Taliban are doing on a daily basis. To people who are alive.

No, I've definitely been more interested in the reaction to this.

The difference between you and me is that I see the Taliban as a horrific by-product brought about by the decades of interference in Afghanistan by the super-powers and their allies - they are an effect not a cause. You often see similarly horrific results in families and communities who have amongst them people that were sexually and violently abused. The whole family and community suffers.

You seem to be making the mistake of thinking that everyone must have the same level of concern as you do for the same things that you do - or they are apathetic, they are not "concerned people."

That is far from true.

No I'm simply stating my observations. For all I know I'm completely off base and wrong-headed for not trying to develop the pagan ethos it obviously takes to truly eliminate an enemy. I actually think the apathy is pretty thin skinned hence my sense that you don't have to scratch very deep to see it's harder edges.

As I already pointed out, this matter is being dealt with. It was wrong, but it's not something to make most people's blood boil.

Notice how you see that when other big Shining Beacons like a church for example does something out of character and at odds with it's outward appearances too?

[DogOnPorch]

Alexander the Great was a superpower?

[bush_cheney2004]

....You often see similarly horrific results in families and communities who have amongst them people that were sexually and violently abused. The whole family and community suffers.

Interesting change in viewpoint, as you initially wanted to bash Sandusky's head into the ceramic tile wall in a Penn State locker room. Your first response was likely your truest feeling on the matter. So like the Taliban, is he just the poor victim of external evils swirling about us in the ether?

[bush_cheney2004]

Alexander the Great was a superpower?

Yes...in the movies!

[DogOnPorch]

Yes...in the movies!

Back in those days, the Taliban were just wearing more colourful garb.

[DogOnPorch]

Everything one needs to understand the current conflict in the region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashman_(novel)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashman_in_the_Great_Game

[dre]

With all of the terrible things going on in the world, seriously, how high would you rate this? I don't think it's that people are apathetic, but in light of all the truly sad things going on, they just don't rate this incident that high.

Sure... it doesnt rate very high on the list of human atrocities going on.

But still, it seems pretty important to me. Part of what youre fighting over there is a PR war and if you give the enemy lots of good ammunition.

Still... its a great thing that in the age of cellphone cameras more of this stuff is getting out. People shouldnt be spared ANY of the gory details. They should release all the torture photos that they still have classified too. Its valuable education for voters.

[cybercoma]

Yep. Peeing on a corpse, beheading innocent people. "Just like them."

Desecrating a corpse is against the criminal code in Canada. Maybe it's ok in Michigan where you live, I don't know. It's certainly not as bad as beheading an innocent person, but it definitely doesn't put you on that moral high-ground you seem to think you occupy.

[Guest American Woman]

If the thread is about a misdeed on our side then why bring them into it, except to compare?

Because they are involved too?

[Guest American Woman]

Desecrating a corpse is against the criminal code in Canada. Maybe it's ok in Michigan where you live, I don't know.

Really? You "don't know?" So what part of my previous posts didn't you understand?

As I already pointed out, this matter is being dealt with. It was wrong...

...the US had condemned the acts - clearly said it was against our principles and policies, clearly said that if it was true, the investigation would result in punishment for those involved.

I'll try to make it clearer for you.

It's. not. ok. in. Michigan. where. I. live.

That's why I said "it's wrong" and pointed out that "the U.S. has condemned the acts" and "clearly said that it's against our principles and policies" and if true "would result in punishment for those involved."

Hope that helps you "know" whether or not it's "ok."

It's certainly not as bad as beheading an innocent person, but it definitely doesn't put you on that moral high-ground you seem to think you occupy.

Unbelievable.

Actually, yes, it does. Even more so because our country actually punishes the guilty.

[cybercoma]

our country actually punishes the guilty.

Only when there's an economic benefit to it. Don't act like you're the high and mighty world police, punishing the violent and oppressive regimes around the world, saving humanity. You allow some of the worst human rights violations continue unimpeded because it's not in your financial interest to stop what's going on in the Congo, Saudi Arabia, or North Korea, just to name a few examples.

Meanwhile, you go to a country and fight those that support a terrorist cell that attacked you, only to have a bunch of soldiers piss on their corpses. That ought to stop terrorism. I'm sure it will in your mind, since military and state actions don't actually have ramifications in your world.

[Guest American Woman]

Only when there's an economic benefit to it. Don't act like you're the high and mighty world police, punishing the violent and oppressive regimes around the world, saving humanity.

I said we punish our own when they break the law.*

You allow some of the worst human rights violations continue unimpeded because it's not in your financial interest to stop what's going on in the Congo, Saudi Arabia, or North Korea, just to name a few examples.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with punishing our own citizens, which is the issue. Your tangent here is out of left field.

Meanwhile, you go to a country and fight those that support a terrorist cell that attacked you, only to have a bunch of soldiers piss on their corpses.

Wow. Our soldiers aren't perfect. Four marines pissed on some corpses, they've been condemned for it by our government, and you still act as if this is some sort of government policy.

That ought to stop terrorism. I'm sure it will in your mind, since military and state actions don't actually have ramifications in your world.

I'm going to ignore the ignorant personal reference and simply give you a newsflash: What the Taliban does has ramifications for them, too.

*I hope you now "know" that this is not "ok in Michigan where live."

Edited January 14, 2012 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

If these soldiers had a good commander and good leadership, this kind of thing would never happen.

[Guest American Woman]

If these soldiers had a good commander and good leadership, this kind of thing would never happen.

Yep. It's always someone else's fault .......... which means that ultimately it's actually BLOWBACK for the Taliban's actions, eh?

Edited January 14, 2012 by American Woman

[eyeball]

Yep. It's always someone else's fault .......... which means that ultimately it's actually BLOWBACK for the Taliban's actions, eh?

No, it means we're trying to win the war for hearts and minds with people including our leaders, who lack the moral and ethical grounding that job in particular requires.

So, that would be our fault.

[GostHacked]

Yep. It's always someone else's fault .......... which means that ultimately it's actually BLOWBACK for the Taliban's actions, eh?

You are a prime example of 'Winning hearts and minds' !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_G3VhoiGUg&feature=g-all-lik&context=G235a9a3FAAAAAAAAVAA

Maybe the video is not the best response .. but there is some relevance to this thread with it.

So who do you make accountable for these guys actions? I blame them and their commander. Hypothetically, if one if my soldiers under my command did that, you bet I would berate the shit out of that soldier. If you want to be noble, fucking act like it. Remember these guys are over there to suposedly protect you. These guys are also over there representing YOU , America.

Edited January 14, 2012 by GostHacked

[Guest American Woman]

You are a prime example of 'Winning hearts and minds' !!!

Thank you.

So who do you make accountable for these guys actions?

Ummmm. The guys! There's a concept, eh?? Holding those who did it accountable for their actions.

Hypothetically, if one if my soldiers under my command did that, you bet I would berate the shit out of that soldier.

They have been berated!! Have you seriously missed that? Good God in Heaven. And just because you would berate them doesn't make you accountable for their actions.

If you want to be noble, fucking act like it. Remember these guys are over there to suposedly protect you. These guys are also over there representing YOU , America.

"fucking act like it?" Here's a tip - your profanity does nothing to further your point.

Those soldiers are not there on a PR mission. They are there to fight. Furthermore, their actions, not being condoned by the U.S., do NOT represent the U.S. nor do they represent ME. Furthermore, they have been condemned for it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

They have been berated!! Have you seriously missed that? Good God in Heaven. And just because you would berate them doesn't make you accountable for their actions.

Again effective leadership would prevent this from happening. My uncle who has 40+ years in the military said the same thing last night over dinner. If you ask other career military people, they would tell you the same thing. Yes the troops did a bad thing, yes they are getting punished. However, it simply could have been prevented by effective and solid command leadership.

Those soldiers are not there on a PR mission. They are there to fight.

They are there for both. It is both a war and a PR campaign. You fight a war to keep you safe. The war was also rebranded to promote democracy abroad. So these guys in Afghanistan are there representing you and America. You may not see it like that but the people who's hearts and minds that America is supposed to be winning won't be to happy with this kind of behaviour. This actually puts other troops in more danger. But I am sure you will simply dismiss that as well. 'Whuuut blowback duurrrrrrrr'?

Furthermore, their actions, not being condoned by the U.S., do NOT represent the U.S. nor do they represent ME. Furthermore, they have been condemned for it.

No matter their actions, if they are wearing the uniform of a US soldier, they do in fact represent you (America on the whole) when fighting these wars. It's the same when Canadian troops do deplorable things as well. The troops are representing us when engaging the enemy. They may not represent me individually, but they do represent Canada as a whole.

Edited January 14, 2012 by GostHacked

[cybercoma]

Yep. It's always someone else's fault .......... which means that ultimately it's actually BLOWBACK for the Taliban's actions, eh?

That's funny because your own government said that their investigation will look into the "culture" that allowed this sort of thing to happen.

And yes. There is "BLOWBACK for the Taliban's actions, eh!" They get shot and pissed on by undisciplined animals in the United States Marine Corps.

[cybercoma]

And lets not forget just a few months ago another one of the US's "honourable" military servicemen was charged for killing innocent Afghanis for sport and making it look like an act of war.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/28/us/afghan-sport-killings-court-martial/index.html

And Abu Ghraib was before this.

Yet, the US government continues to apologize and "investigate" the problems. Only to do absolutely nothing about it.

The American military is an utter disgrace to humanity.

Edited January 14, 2012 by cybercoma

[prairiechickin]

The American military is an utter disgrace to humanity.

This seems a bit harsh. Did a marine recently break your heart or something?

Edited January 14, 2012 by prairiechickin

[huh]

The American military is an utter disgrace to humanity.

This thread is about a disrespectful act carried out by a few, perhaps we should talk about terrorism, honor killing, stoning, acid attacks, sodomizing young boys, beheading, and who knows what else, but no, lets focus on a few corpses getting pissed on, as disrespectful as that is.

Just like your gun control arguments, you make no sense, hey lets talk about the man of middle eastern defense who had an abusive middle eastern father, the man who killed 14 women and spawned this whole gun control argument, but no, lets ignore the reality of what that person was, lets focus on the gun he used.

Lets not talk about the terrible practices performed by members of the Taliban, lets condemn the whole army for something a few idiots did to a corpse, perfectly reasonable, in your mind.

Edited January 16, 2012 by huh

[huh]

dupe

Edited January 16, 2012 by huh

[bush_cheney2004]

...The American military is an utter disgrace to humanity.

What nonsense...humanity is an utter disgrace to humanity.

[dre]

This thread is about a disrespectful act carried out by a few, perhaps we should talk about terrorism, honor killing, stoning, acid attacks, sodomizing young boys, beheading, and who knows what else, but no, lets focus on a few corpses getting pissed on, as disrespectful as that is.

Just like your gun control arguments, you make no sense, hey lets talk about the man of middle eastern defense who had an abusive middle eastern father, the man who killed 14 women and spawned this whole gun control argument, but no, lets ignore the reality of what that person was, lets focus on the gun he used.

Lets not talk about the terrible practices performed by members of the Taliban, lets condemn the whole army for something a few idiots did to a corpse, perfectly reasonable, in your mind.

perhaps we should talk about terrorism, honor killing, stoning, acid attacks, sodomizing young boys, beheading

Holy shit! Busy weekend huh?