Should Canada Accept Gay Refugees?

[August1991]

Canada awarded a South Korean man refugee status after he objected to the mandatory military service in his home country for being a pacifist and a homosexual, a local human rights group said Thursday.

The Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada (IRB) granted the status in July 2009 to Kim Kyung-hwan, 31, saying the gay conscript is highly likely to face abuse and mistreatment back home, according to the Center for Military Human Rights in Korea, which brought the story to light two years after the fact.

Link

A pilot project to help refugees fleeing persecution because of their sexual orientation was announced by Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism Minister Jason Kenney today.

“We are very pleased to be working with the Rainbow Refugee Committee to help refugees who are in need of protection, particularly those who are persecuted because of their sexual orientation,” said Minister Kenney. “By partnering with this organization and allowing Canadians to play a part in refugee protection, the private sponsorship program showcases grassroots support for this country’s international commitment to humanitarian action.”

CIC

This policy poses interesting questions.

We Canadians accept about 300,000 immigrants each year. While the CIC officially states that about 15,000 people arrive as refugees, the CIC does not add that many others arrive as dependants of "refugees". Moreover, many foreigners arrive in Canada as visitors but then manage to stay here permanently based on "humanitarian grounds". Or the foreigners arrive as temporary workers (eg. nannies) and then they obtain permanent residency - later, sponsoring husbands and children.

Of the 300,000 annual immigrants, we select perhaps 30,000. The other 270,000 are dependants, refugees, visitors who overstay and temporary workers.

So, what about gays?

Well, they generally don't have dependants. No kids (excepting the rich ones like Elton John). No parents, grandparents, extended family likely to come to Canada. When gays (typically men) arrive in Canada from Africa, Arabia, Asia, China, India, even South America (basically the backward, undeveloped, poor world), they are fleeing their families. A gay refugee/immigrant to Canada is unlikely to sponsor his grandfather, his father or even his mother.

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I have mixed feelings about this because I wonder whether Canada should become a safe harbour for people who happen to be gay. Do we want to be a country of left-handed people in a world where left-handed people are persecuted?

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[Moonlight Graham]

I think we should, no doubt. If someone is in danger of being killed, even by the state, in another country then we should accept them.

[PlayItLoud]

Canada should accept no refugees

[cybercoma]

Canada offers refugee protection to people in Canada who fear persecution or whose removal from Canada would subject them to a danger of torture, a risk to their life or a risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/index.asp

Do they fit those criteria? Then yes. Why would it matter at all whether they're attracted to people of the same sex or opposite sex? I don't understand.

[August1991]

I think we should, no doubt. If someone is in danger of being killed, even by the state, in another country then we should accept them.

There are about 6 billion people in the world, or about 3 billion men. If 1% of these men are gay, that's about 30 million. If half of these men live in backward/ignorant countries (eg. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria) where gays are persecuted, should we accept all the gays in these backward/ignorant countries?

Should Canada accept 15 million gay men as refugees? Should 21st century Canada become 1980 San Francisco?

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[cybercoma]

should we accept them all?

No. Of course not. We don't accept every last person on the planet that's persecuted now.

Should Canada become a gay country?

Canada already is a gay country.

[August1991]

No. Of course not. We don't accept every last person on the planet that's persecuted now.

No, we accept people differently nowadays.

Canada already is a gay country.

Precisely my point.

We will soon be a country of left-handed people in a world that persecutes left-handers.

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[cybercoma]

But we will soon.

I can't argue with your opinion, especially when it's based on crystal-ball forecasting.

[cybercoma]

Quick edit.

[eyeball]

We will soon be a country of left-handed people in a world that persecutes left-handers.

We can adjust for that here at least by letting less religious conservatives in.

It's bad enough that our own homegrown whack-jobs used to tie my wife's left-hand behind her back and hit it with a stick if she used it.

Edited January 3, 2012 by eyeball

[Guest Manny]

Precisely my point.

We will soon be a country of left-handed people in a world that persecutes left-handers.

It depends what you mean by persecuted but the United States accepts them, as does Europe, and some parts of South America, Australia and some areas of Asia. So to say the world persecutes them isn't quite accurate.

It would be interesting to see a demographic of gay population, per capita in different countries in the world. Hard to get data thats accurate in some places, I'd imagine. As Ahmadinejad said, "In Iran we do not have such problems."

[dre]

There are about 6 billion people in the world, or about 3 billion men. If 1% of these men are gay, that's about 30 million. If half of these men live in backward/ignorant countries (eg. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria) where gays are persecuted, should we accept all the gays in these backward/ignorant countries?

Should Canada accept 15 million gay men as refugees? Should 21st century Canada become 1980 San Francisco?

What? Why on earth would Canada accept all the gay refugees We should accept a few of them, and we certainly shouldnt deny claims for that reason.

[PlayItLoud]

Can someone explain to me why we're accepting refugees at all?

[eyeball]

Can someone explain to me why we're accepting refugees at all?

I doubt it.

[August1991]

eyeball, cybercoma,

So what if Canada becomes a country of gays? Years ago, America became a country of Protestants, a refuge, and it defended itself against an Old World of superstition.

This New World will do the same, I hope.

I wonder rather (and fear) whether Americans, gays, westerners, Canadians - and if I think about it, the few remaining Polish Jews - are willing to defend themselves.

All things considered, I think that we in the Enlightened West have something to defend, and reason to defend ourselves.

I hope that we have the courage to defend our beliefs. At present, we seem foolish.

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991

[PlayItLoud]

I doubt it.

So the entire refugee system is just a feel-good program that only exists to make the government look and feel good and maintain a this "Canadians are nice" image? Great to know how well my tax dollars are used.

[cybercoma]

It depends what you mean by persecuted but the United States accepts them, as does Europe, and some parts of South America, Australia and some areas of Asia. So to say the world persecutes them isn't quite accurate.

It would be interesting to see a demographic of gay population, per capita in different countries in the world. Hard to get data thats accurate in some places, I'd imagine. As Ahmadinejad said, "In Iran we do not have such problems."

It's hard to get that data here. People don't like answering how much money they make on questionnaires, let alone their sexual orientation.

[eyeball]

eyeball, cybercoma,

So what if Canada becomes a country of gays?

Mr Canada will have a stroke...

All things considered, I think that we in the Enlightened West have something to defend, and reason to defend ourselves. We face ignorant hordes - Islamic hordes and others.

We just face ignorance. Your's is exactly the type of question that makes this atheist ask WWJD? It's a real no-brainer.

Edited January 3, 2012 by eyeball

[cybercoma]

eyeball, cybercoma,

So what if Canada becomes a country of gays? Years ago, America became a country of Protestants, a refuge, and it defended itself against an Old World of superstition.

This New World will do the same, I hope.

I wonder rather (and fear) whether Americans, gays, westerners, Canadians - and if I think about it, the few remaining Polish Jews - are willing to defend themselves.

All things considered, I think that we in the Enlightened West have something to defend, and reason to defend ourselves.

I hope that we have the courage to defend our beliefs. At present, we seem foolish.

You're creating a false hypothetical. We are not going to become a country entirely of gays. It's an absurd claim. There's 34 Million Canadians. Do you think in the next 10 or even 20 years, we'll accept some 40 Million gays, thus outnumbering straight people? And even if we did, so what? Who cares if someone is gay? What does it have to do with anything? I don't like your implication that it's some sort of negative thing.

[dre]

Can someone explain to me why we're accepting refugees at all?

Yup. We dont f__k enough without birth control to maintain a growth economy.

[PlayItLoud]

Yup. We dont f__k enough without birth control to maintain a growth economy.

We can't look for normal immigrants that'll come here without expecting a handout?

[dre]

We can't look for normal immigrants that'll come here without expecting a handout?

We do.

[eyeball]

Yup. We dont f__k enough without birth control to maintain a growth economy.

I know you mean well but this is probably a poor observation to be using if you're okay with gay refugees.

[PlayItLoud]

I know you mean well but this is probably a poor observation to be using if you're okay with gay refugees.

I love that

[August1991]

You're creating a false hypothetical. We are not going to become a country entirely of gays. It's an absurd claim. There's 34 Million Canadians. Do you think in the next 10 or even 20 years, we'll accept some 40 Million gays, thus outnumbering straight people? And even if we did, so what? Who cares if someone is gay? What does it have to do with anything? I don't like your implication that it's some sort of negative thing.

Cybercoma, I think you miss my point, and the point of the OP.

Heck, not to be partisan, maybe you should think more about the Kenney quote in the OP.

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Should we Canadians accept more refugees? Why invite more trouble?

Edited January 3, 2012 by August1991