Quebec Pupil Wears Headphones to Avoid Hearing Music

[dre]

Materialist? I suspect that many westerners view Islam as a threat because radical Muslims destroyed large western buildings (WTC) and killed thousands.

The GWOT has already killed more westerners than 911, and cost trillions of dollars to boot. If we are afraid of muslims its because we're confused cowards. Not because they pose any real threat.

[jbg]

Nope. None of those things are next. People are subjected to sound they dont like every day. It causes problems, and the sounds some people make often annoy others, so most municipalities have a bunch of different bylaws that govern how much noise you are allowed to make.

But doesn't the idea of offending Allah scare you?

[jbg]

One would think that Muslims coming to Canada or the US for that matter are probably trying to flee the secular violence in their homelands, not bring it with them. You're also making it seem as though any violent fanatic can get into either country without a problem.

Ask Mark Lapine about that.

[dre]

But doesn't the idea of offending Allah scare you?

I could care less about offending their bullshit god, OR yours. But Im fine with all you guys having your goofy-assed customs and your bizzare fantasies as long as you stay out of my way and dont hurt anyone.

[jbg]

I could care less about offending their bullshit god, OR yours. But Im fine with all you guys having your goofy-assed customs and your bizzare fantasies as long as you stay out of my way and dont hurt anyone.

I think a short read of Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy would do you well. It happens that our idea of social justice, care for the needy, accommodating the handicapped, fair weights and measures and even modern bankruptcy/debtor relief laws are all to be found there. Even many of the provisions.

Don't read it for its religious content. Read it for secular, humanitarian values. It's good. Why they call it the "Good Book".

For example (Excerpts from Deuteronomy 24:13-25:19):

14] You shall not abuse a needy and destitute laborer, whether a fellow Israelite or a stranger in

one of the communities of your land. 15] You must payout the wages due on the same day, before the sun sets, for the worker is needy and urgently depends on it; else a cry to the Eternal will be issued against you and you will incur guilt....

19] When you reap the harvest in your field and overlook a sheaf in the field, do not tum back to get it; it shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow-in order that the Eternal your God may bless you in all your undertakings. 20] When you beat down the fruit of your olive trees, do not go over them again; that shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow. 21] When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, do not pick it over again; that shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow....

13] You shall not have in your pouch alternate weights, larger and smaller. 14] You shall not have in your house alternate measures, a larger and a smaller. 15] You must have completely honest weights and completely honest measures, if you are to endure long on the soil that the Eternal your God is giving you. 16] For everyone who does those things, everyone who deals dishonestly, is abhorrent to the Eternal your God.

Edited December 24, 2011 by jbg

[August1991]

The GWOT has already killed more westerners than 911, and cost trillions of dollars to boot. If we are afraid of muslims its because we're confused cowards. Not because they pose any real threat.

The 3000 or so people killed in September 2001, by chance, were simply there. (Radical) muslims killed them.

Everyone in the World knows that the WTC is no longer there.

Edited December 24, 2011 by August1991

[dre]

The 3000 or so people killed in September 2001 were simply there. (Radical) muslims killed them.

Everyone in the West knows that the WTC is no longer there.

Yup a tiny handful of guys got lucky because they put retards in charge of airline security. We did by far more damange to OURSELVES after that.

[August1991]

Yup a tiny handful of guys got lucky because they put retards in charge of airline security. We did by far more damange to OURSELVES after that.

dre, you apparently enjoy freedom.

"Got lucky"?

dre, you have no idea what the defence of freedom involves.

[dre]

dre, you apparently enjoy freedom.

"Got lucky"?

Yes they got lucky. The buildings should not have fallen down, and if they hadnt there would have been a few hundred casualies instead of a few thousand. That doesnt take anything away from that horrible event, its just a fact. The stars aligned for those assholes, and they were able to pull of something big enough to really make us jerk at the knees and phuck ourselves after.

dre, you have no idea what the defence of freedom involves.

Apparently it has something to do with spending hundreds of billions of dollars blowing up stuff, and then hundreds of billions more building the same stuff again

[dre]

I think a short read of Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy would do you well. It happens that our idea of social justice, care for the needy, accommodating the handicapped, fair weights and measures and even modern bankruptcy/debtor relief laws are all to be found there. Even many of the provisions.

Don't read it for its religious content. Read it for secular, humanitarian values. It's good. Why they call it the "Good Book".

For example (Excerpts from Deuteronomy 24:13-25:19):

14] You shall not abuse a needy and destitute laborer, whether a fellow Israelite or a stranger in

one of the communities of your land. 15] You must payout the wages due on the same day, before the sun sets, for the worker is needy and urgently depends on it; else a cry to the Eternal will be issued against you and you will incur guilt....

19] When you reap the harvest in your field and overlook a sheaf in the field, do not tum back to get it; it shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow-in order that the Eternal your God may bless you in all your undertakings. 20] When you beat down the fruit of your olive trees, do not go over them again; that shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow. 21] When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, do not pick it over again; that shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow....

13] You shall not have in your pouch alternate weights, larger and smaller. 14] You shall not have in your house alternate measures, a larger and a smaller. 15] You must have completely honest weights and completely honest measures, if you are to endure long on the soil that the Eternal your God is giving you. 16] For everyone who does those things, everyone who deals dishonestly, is abhorrent to the Eternal your God.

Well... there SOME real news articles in the national enquirer as well

In any case... Its the holidays, and I dont need to go insulting folks dieties. I apologize for that.

[August1991]

Apparently it has something to do with spending hundreds of billions of dollars blowing up stuff, and then hundreds of billions more building the same stuff again

If that's what it takes to warn future generations, then I guess sadly so be it. The US/West killed almost a million in Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Truman's decision to drop not one, but two bombs, is an indication of how serious the US once was to protect its interests, and how the US once promoted Western values.

Obama, and we in the West, now benefit from such courage - and clear-thinking.

----

Nowadays, people voluntarily choose to drive a Toyota or an Audi. Because of Truman, the world is a far better place.

Edited December 24, 2011 by August1991

[cybercoma]

A lone Norwegian whacko is tragic but not a threat to Western civilization.

19 guys with box cutters, several guys that get on London busses or lay bombs in Madrid or in Indonesian discos are a different story.

Catholics and Protestants murdering each other in Ireland did not pose a physical or spiritual threat to people in France or New Jersey. No one in California was suddenly afraid of nuns who covered their hair. Heck, Whoopi Goldberg made a movie or two dressed as one.

Would she make such a movie now dressed in niqab? Cybercoma, even you should see that this is not a joking matter.

You seem to think that this is only a problem of perception. Indeed, that's how I have made my argument too: "Many westerners perceive (radical) Muslims as a threat to the West."

Cybercoma, you seem to think that these westerners are deluded (by Fox News or CNN). Deluded? Who placed the bombs in Madrid and London? Even the Soviet Union did not change the NYC skyline as radical Muslims did.

-----

I lived and worked in the Middle East for several years and I recall a conversation that I had with a Belgian in Damascus in the 1990s. I think he worked in the oil business as an expat. I remember that the conversation suddenly turned dark and he went into a rant about the dangers of Islam to the West. I laughed at the time, thinking that he was exaggerating. Liberal Western Civilization has withstood far worse threats, I thought - not the least Soviet and Maoist Communism. Once ordinary Muslims are exposed to western society, they will see the light.

Now, I am not so certain.

First, it seems to me that we are fighting a battle that intellectuals fought almost 300 years ago. It would be foolish to pretend that the war was won. (The term used in Quebec now is obscurantisme. I'm surprised to see this word come back.)

Second, we in the West have "values" to defend. When Muslims argue that they hold certain practices or values dear, then we as Westerners have every right to argue that we also have values that we hold dear.

Cybercoma, a hallmark of the scientific method is an open mind, the avoidance of prejudice. We in the West must start to apply our accumulated wisdom.

-----

To return to the OP, IMHO, a parent who forbids a child to hear music is not Canadian. I am appalled that our State is a party to such inhumanity.

Well, then we cannot come to an agreement, August. Because I believe terrorism is indeed a threat to Western society, but I do not believe it is Muslims, as in all Muslims, that are the threat. Your characterization uses a broad brush to paint all Muslims with the same terrorist colour. This is simply not true. Muslims in the Middle East are being tortured and oppressed by radicals in their homeland as well. They too are subjected to terrorist attacks. Terrorism then is not just a threat to the West, but to everyone.

Also, while I don't agree with the decision to avoid all music at all times, unless it's religious chanting, liberal values dictate that this is their right. They are free in our country and have the liberty to realize their religious values, as long as it does not cause harm to others (dictated by the CCC). Is it strange? Absolutely. Is it child abuse? Probably not, but I can certainly see why that argument would be made. Let's not forget, however, that we have many people from various Anabaptist sects in our country that engage in all kinds of behaviours that we find equally as weird and you could also argue amount to child abuse.

[cybercoma]

I think a short read of Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy would do you well. It happens that our idea of social justice, care for the needy, accommodating the handicapped, fair weights and measures and even modern bankruptcy/debtor relief laws are all to be found there. Even many of the provisions.

Don't read it for its religious content. Read it for secular, humanitarian values. It's good. Why they call it the "Good Book".

For example (Excerpts from Deuteronomy 24:13-25:19):

14] You shall not abuse a needy and destitute laborer, whether a fellow Israelite or a stranger in

one of the communities of your land. 15] You must payout the wages due on the same day, before the sun sets, for the worker is needy and urgently depends on it; else a cry to the Eternal will be issued against you and you will incur guilt....

19] When you reap the harvest in your field and overlook a sheaf in the field, do not tum back to get it; it shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow-in order that the Eternal your God may bless you in all your undertakings. 20] When you beat down the fruit of your olive trees, do not go over them again; that shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow. 21] When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, do not pick it over again; that shall go to the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow....

13] You shall not have in your pouch alternate weights, larger and smaller. 14] You shall not have in your house alternate measures, a larger and a smaller. 15] You must have completely honest weights and completely honest measures, if you are to endure long on the soil that the Eternal your God is giving you. 16] For everyone who does those things, everyone who deals dishonestly, is abhorrent to the Eternal your God.

And when you're done reading that you can go read the Code of Hammurabi, which has similar secular values.

[jbg]

And when you're done reading that you can go read the Code of Hammurabi, which has similar secular values.

What does the code of Hammurabi have to do with the parts I quoted? Other adjacent parts are derived from Hammurabi though.

[Guest American Woman]

Even kinds of music that aren't calming and relaxing? I wouldn't have known it from your original post.

Really?

So if I were to say "Muslims are kind souls," you would post a video of Muslims beheading Daniel Pearl in response - and when I then responded with "There are all kinds of Muslims out there" you, of course, would respond with "I wouldn't have known it from your original post." Yeah sure, eh?

Methinks not.

Your ability to comprehend what someone is saying is really quite selective ..... or dishonest.

[Michael Hardner]

Blip? Every Hollywood movie of New York since 2001 is a reminder of what (extremist) Muslims did to America. The Twin Towers date movies, and what happened.

Yes, the psychological effect was great, which is why the response to the attacks was so massive.

Except in London and Madrid.

True, although on a much smaller scale.

Nowadays, people voluntarily choose to drive a Toyota or an Audi. Because of Truman, the world is a far better place.

Consumer choice is just one kind of choice, not the most important kind of choice.

I would trade being able to live in a country where political choices are decided by an engaged public, not through mass advertising and lobbying over being able to choose from 27 flavours of pop tarts.

But I don't have that option.

I would choose having the most important decisions being discussed in public, rather than behind closed doors over having hundreds of entertainment channels available but I don't have that choice only.

Consumer choice provides individuals with conveniences and comforts at a profit to the sellers, which is a minor benefit on the grand scale of things. The big forces in our world impact us in far more significant ways, and we have less voice and less choice in those as time goes on IMHO.

[Guest American Woman]

jbg, on 23 December 2011 - 11:26 PM, said: But doesn't the idea of offending Allah scare you?

I could care less about offending their bullshit god, OR yours. But Im fine with all you guys having your goofy-assed customs and your bizzare fantasies as long as you stay out of my way and dont hurt anyone.

If you "could care less," then evidently you do care - and most likely because with some Muslims, offending "their bullshit god" does indeed end up "hurt[ing]" people.

[bud]

I remember the first time I went to New York, stepping out of the subway, and seeing the World Trade Center.

It's not there anymore.

----

This threat is greater than "ourselves not being able to talk to each other".

how many buildings you reckon have been destroyed in the middle east by u.s. bombs?

how many innocent civilians have lost their lives due to u.s. bombs?

the answers: a lot more than the WTC buildings and a lot more than 3000 people.

[jbg]

how many buildings you reckon have been destroyed in the middle east by u.s. bombs?

how many innocent civilians have lost their lives due to u.s. bombs?

the answers: a lot more than the WTC buildings and a lot more than 3000 people.

That's a risk they ran by making war on the West, both rhetorical and physical.

[cybercoma]

That's a risk they ran by making war on the West, both rhetorical and physical.

When did Iraq attack the West? When did Afghanistan attack the West?

[bud]

There are no cinemas in Saudi Arabia. No theatres. No public concerts. No one ever sees a Shakespeare play. No one ever sings in unison.

"Outside of wahabist sects"?

#1 - majority of saudis are wahabists. west's closest ally.

#2 - you are doing exactly what i described; ignorantly lumping all muslims into one group even though there are so many different types of muslims who have different customs and traditions. just because you don't know, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

#3 - music in the muslim world; lets do this youtube!

music from:

lebanon

jordan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpJVFr57u3I

this can go on and on.

you claim to have travelled around, yet you make ignorant and bigoted comments that show otherwise.

Edited December 24, 2011 by bud

[August1991]

Well, then we cannot come to an agreement, August. Because I believe terrorism is indeed a threat to Western society, but I do not believe it is Muslims, as in all Muslims, that are the threat. Your characterization uses a broad brush to paint all Muslims with the same terrorist colour. This is simply not true. Muslims in the Middle East are being tortured and oppressed by radicals in their homeland as well. They too are subjected to terrorist attacks. Terrorism then is not just a threat to the West, but to everyone.

I am not arguing that all Muslims are a threat to Western civilization. However, I think that radical Islamists are, and possibly modern Islam in general.

how many buildings you reckon have been destroyed in the middle east by u.s. bombs?

Fellow Arabs killed most others in the Middle East. The US killed relatively few. As to buildings, I suspect that it's the same.

For example, the Lebanese Civil War lasted from 1975-92, destroyed the centre of Beirut (and hundreds if not thousands of buildings) and killed tens of thousands of people. The US military was barely involved.

The Syrian government slaughtered several thousand people in Hama in 1982, and destroyed all the buildings in the city centre. The US miliary was not involved.

The Jordanian government killed thousands of "Palestinian" refugees in 1970 (Black September) without the US military.

The Iranian and Egytpian regimes recently killed people demonstrating against tyranny. We recently witnessed a Libyan tyrant die after much bloodshed.

----

Bud, don't blame Americans (or Israelis) for bloodshed in the Middle East.

[August1991]

When did Iraq attack the West? When did Afghanistan attack the West?

The Taliban gave a place for al-Qaeda to organize its attack against the US. Saddam Hussein was a despotic tyrant who threatened the West. (For the record, I would have preferred to see Saddam fall as Qaddafi did - at the hands of his own people. I opposed the Iraq war but I can understand why Bush Jnr made the decision to send American troops into Iraq.) Edited December 26, 2011 by August1991

[August1991]

#1 - majority of saudis are wahabists. west's closest ally.

I would argue about "closest ally" but more important, so what if the Saudis are an ally of the US? Does this make the wahabite sect any more civilized?

Bud, this is not about what you or I think about the US, or its president.

#2 - you are doing exactly what i described; ignorantly lumping all muslims into one group even though there are so many different types of muslims who have different customs and traditions. just because you don't know, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I am not putting all Muslims into one group. And despite your Youtube videos, you shouldn't try to put them into one group either.

As someone who has travelled throughout the Middle East over the past 30 years or so, I admit that ordinary people have many different opinions. Nevertheless, I am surprised that the Muslim Brotherhood is now considered "moderate". It wasn't in the 1980s. The "centre" has shifted.

This interview in Egypt is informative:

The Salafist movement is violent. Imagine if the Amish ruled America and used force to make everyone else live just like them. They wouldn’t, of course, they are peaceful people, but imagine the Amish using force to rule America and require everyone in the United States to adopt their lifestyle. That’s the Salafist movement. They’re the extremists. They adopt old-school Islam and also the old-school Islamic style. The Muslim Brotherhood is less extreme. They will let men wear a tie. But when it comes to women, the Muslim Brotherhood are much more conservative than the average educated Muslim would like. They also impose a lot of restrictions on men.

Michael Totten

----

Mark Steyn may have a point. According to him, the future will be Islamic, and ignorant.

Or as I like to say: "The world does not lack for children. It lacks educated children." IMHO, we in the West have a task to educate others. I fear that we are doing this badly, and we don't have much time.

Returning to the OP, the more I think about this, the more it appalls me to think that a State school puts earphones on a child because her Muslim request that she not hear music. This is not a Western education.

Edited December 26, 2011 by August1991

[DogOnPorch]

Mark Steyn may have a point. According to him, the future will be Islamic, and ignorant.

Heh...bud does his bit to pave the way.