Conservative Party Gun Registry Ad

[August1991]

You can hear it here: CJAD

To the Conservative Party's credit, it is paying for this with its own money. The Liberals, PQ and other parties are experts in using government money to advertise partisan messages as so-called "public announcements".

Here's a link the Conservative website: http://www.scrappedtheregistry.ca/

Edited December 19, 2011 by August1991

[Boges]

You can hear it here: CJAD

To the Conservative Party's credit, it is paying for this with its own money. The Liberals, PQ and other parties are experts in using government money to advertise partisan messages as so-called "public announcements".

Here's a link the Conservative website: http://www.scrappedtheregistry.ca/

Good for them.

[Shakeyhands]

It's scrapped?

[Topaz]

Ok, so its gone, so how DO you stop a law-bidding farmer or hunter from becoming a criminal? Tell me if I'm wrong, but the 3 Mounties were killed by long guns and this past week, the 3-4 young people, were killed by long guns and if someone living in a rural area and wants to kill someone, they have a long gun to do it and not a hand gun. The registry never helped save lives, except the police, but this Tories way isn't going to either but its wasn't suppose to, it was to raise money for the Tories and they still are, what's the next fund raiser, when the gun registry is dead in the water?

[Boges]

Ok, so its gone, so how DO you stop a law-bidding farmer or hunter from becoming a criminal? Tell me if I'm wrong, but the 3 Mounties were killed by long guns and this past week, the 3-4 young people, were killed by long guns and if someone living in a rural area and wants to kill someone, they have a long gun to do it and not a hand gun. The registry never helped save lives, except the police, but this Tories way isn't going to either but its wasn't suppose to, it was to raise money for the Tories and they still are, what's the next fund raiser, when the gun registry is dead in the water?

Exactly, it doesn't help anyone. It just costs money.

I love the logic that it helps Cops know if there's a gun in the house before they enter. Shouldn't they always assume that anyway?

Edited December 19, 2011 by Boges

[cybercoma]

It's scrapped?

It's not scrapped. The bill was shelved and won't be passed until at least January 30 when Parliament resumes. Moreover, Quebec has a challenge before the courts, but this government doesn't seem to think judiciary checks and balances really matter. They've done nothing but show contempt for Parliament (both unofficially and officially) and the judiciary (pushing through the CWB changes despite losing in court). Now they're showing contempt for the electorate by spreading misinformation, which is exactly what they did in Cotler's riding. This government is nothing short of reprehensible.

[cybercoma]

Exactly, it doesn't help anyone. It just costs money.

It doesn't help anyone? You care to retract that statement because the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police say it helps them. I'll take the opinion of the national police chiefs' association over yours.

While it cost $1 Billion to setup, which is obscene (someone really should look into that money laundering scandal), it only costs $4 million per year to maintain.

[Boges]

It doesn't help anyone? You care to retract that statement because the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police say it helps them. I'll take the opinion of the national police chiefs' association over yours.

While it cost $1 Billion to setup, which is obscene (someone really should look into that money laundering scandal), it only costs $4 million per year to maintain.

I'd say it as lazy not assume every house has a firearm in it.

"Oh look I see there is no registered fire arm at this house, Don't need to worry now"

[cybercoma]

I don't see how that's relevant to what I'm saying. You said it's not useful to anyone, the national association for the Chiefs of Police say that it is. Why should I take your word over theirs? It is, after all, supposed to be a tool that helps them. So if they find it useful, is it not then serving its purpose?

[August1991]

It doesn't help anyone? You care to retract that statement because the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police say it helps them. I'll take the opinion of the national police chiefs' association over yours.

While it cost $1 Billion to setup, which is obscene (someone really should look into that money laundering scandal), it only costs $4 million per year to maintain.

The annual operating cost - to the federal government - is closer to $66 million, not $4 million. But that cost doesn't include all the private costs imposed on individuals to complete the forms and meet compliance. (As in so many public policy debates, it is tragic that we only consider "costs" if a government must bear them... )

As to the chiefs of police, they may have had a different opinion if the cost of the registry had been taken out of their budgets.

In any case, there is a principle involved. Many rural gunowners feel that a vocal group of urban voters have hijacked the debate and are imposing their will. It's like the tyranny of the majority.

The bill was shelved and won't be passed until at least January 30 when Parliament resumes.

That's a fair point. From what I understand, the law has yet to be signed by the GG so the Conservative Party has, uh, jumped the gun with this ad campaign.

[olp1fan]

police are just as bad as criminals

[cybercoma]

The annual operating cost - to the federal government - is closer to $66 million, not $4 million. But that cost doesn't include all the private costs imposed on individuals to complete the forms and meet compliance. (As in so many public policy debates, it is tragic that we only consider "costs" if a government must bear them... )

As to the chiefs of police, they may have had a different opinion if the cost of the registry had been taken out of their budgets.

In any case, there is a principle involved. Many rural gunowners feel that a vocal group of urban voters have hijacked the debate and are imposing their will. It's like the tyranny of the majority.

That's a fair point. From what I understand, the law has yet to be signed by the GG so the Conservative Party has, uh, jumped the gun with this ad campaign.

I got that $4 million figure from Bill Blair. Where are you getting the $66 million figure?

[PIK]

It's not scrapped. The bill was shelved and won't be passed until at least January 30 when Parliament resumes. Moreover, Quebec has a challenge before the courts, but this government doesn't seem to think judiciary checks and balances really matter. They've done nothing but show contempt for Parliament (both unofficially and officially) and the judiciary (pushing through the CWB changes despite losing in court). Now they're showing contempt for the electorate by spreading misinformation, which is exactly what they did in Cotler's riding. This government is nothing short of reprehensible.

What a drama queen you are. lol And quebec will not get anything from the reg. It is only a play for votes. And I understand their is a law about passing around private info. The top court will throw them out quickly. People just have no idea how insulting this was, and the worse of it, they still don't. How stupid were they thinking that they could have some suits from TO tell us that we are no better then the criminals. This was one of the most divisive(SP)policies ever. And it just sickens me when I still here from people how an important tool it was, but not one person can tell me why. I never reg a gun, so how good was it. The only people that really liked it was the political group called the police ass, the regular cop had no use for it.

[PIK]

Ok, so its gone, so how DO you stop a law-bidding farmer or hunter from becoming a criminal? Tell me if I'm wrong, but the 3 Mounties were killed by long guns and this past week, the 3-4 young people, were killed by long guns and if someone living in a rural area and wants to kill someone, they have a long gun to do it and not a hand gun. The registry never helped save lives, except the police, but this Tories way isn't going to either but its wasn't suppose to, it was to raise money for the Tories and they still are, what's the next fund raiser, when the gun registry is dead in the water?

This is one of the MOST STPUIDEST arguments out there. I can here it now'' Hey mounties ,you are lucky my gun is reg or I would have killed you'' Do you realize how dumb that is, do you? What is worse then the reg ,is how certain people believe that people bent on killing won't because they just remembered thier gun is reg. It had nothing to do to raise money, the people spoke they listened. Open your fucking eyes people. Edited December 19, 2011 by PIK

[cybercoma]

.

Edited December 19, 2011 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

This is one of the MOST STPUIDEST arguments out there. I can here it now''

Quoted for posterity.

[segnosaur]

I got that $4 million figure from Bill Blair. Where are you getting the $66 million figure?

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/gun-registrys-price-was-not-as-advertised/article1717453/

The source of this estimate of $4-million appears to be a badly written line in the RCMP’s 2010 evaluation of the Canadian Firearms Program: “ . . . the gun registration portion of the CFP has been determined, by independent sources, in terms of cost savings to the CFP, at a range of $1.195-$3.65 million for the initial year, and subsequent years will range from $1.57-$4.03 million. . ..” (Emphasis added.) The key phrase is cost savings. The RCMP, which took lead responsibility for the program in 2006, claims it is doing so more efficiently than its predecessors. Elsewhere in the report the RCMP puts the annual net cost of the Canadian Firearms Program for 2010-11 at $66.4-million.

So, it looks like the cost of the firearm program was never $4million/year.

[segnosaur]

Seems like the conservatives aren't the only ones who have made a goof regarding gun registry ads.

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-ad-backfires-with-use-of-wrong-gun/article2252213/

The NDP are switching guns as they come out firing at the Tories. The party is mounting a billboard campaign in three cities this week attacking the Conservative government’s move to scrap the long-gun registry.... the image on the ad, provided Sunday to The Globe and Mail, displayed the wrong version of the gun – the outline of a Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rifle, which is already restricted in Canada, and will still have to be registered after the law changes.

Not that I think its a big deal. Neither the conservative's actions on early claims of "eliminating the registry" or the NDP's use of the wrong gun are at best a distraction from the actual issue.

[Topaz]

This is one of the MOST STPUIDEST arguments out there. I can here it now'' Hey mounties ,you are lucky my gun is reg or I would have killed you'' Do you realize how dumb that is, do you? What is worse then the reg ,is how certain people believe that people bent on killing won't because they just remembered thier gun is reg. It had nothing to do to raise money, the people spoke they listened. Open your fucking eyes people.

The reasons the Tories were giving to get rid of it was that law-bidding farmer's and hunters were looked like they were criminals because they had to register. What I'm saying that every gun owner that is licensed is law-bidding UNTIL they use it to KILL someone then they become a ciminal, right? I hope the provinces do start with their own registry and they can by using the licences issued by gun stores.

[Wiggum]

What I'm saying that every gun owner that is licensed is law-bidding UNTIL they use it to KILL someone then they become a ciminal, right?

Realy? So gun owners ars just murderers in waiting? Pretty broad brush your holding.

[Wiggum]

I hope the provinces do start with their own registry and they can by using the licences issued by gun stores.

What license issued by the store are you refering to?

[prairiechickin]

Man there is a lot of misinformation on this topic. Gun stores do not issue licenses. Some basic facts about gun control in Canada. Handguns are strictly regulated and have been since the 1930s. You can own one (or more), but there is a mountain of red tape involved. Automatic weapons and certain kinds of assault rifles are prohibited. Starting in the late '70s the Firearms Aquisition Certificate was introduced and you needed a criminal background check to get one. You had to have one of these to buy ammo or new guns, but it didn't effect any guns you owned when the FAC was introduced. The system was acceptable to most gun owners and most complied with little or no fuss. Then in the mid-90s Cretien introduced the long gun registry after the Montreal Massacre. This was different insofar as now all guns had to be individually registered. What made this different, and what makes it different from registering your dog or your car, is the act gave police sweeping powers to enter your home and check out your guns. Many gun owners saw this a precursor to the eventual confiscation of their guns, hence the backlash. Instead of the FAC we now have the Possession and Acquisition License administered by the RCMP. The Conservatives are getting rid of the Long Gun Registry, not eliminating gun control. All the rules about licensing gun owners are still in place. So if the cops come to my house, they'll still know I have guns, they just don't have a list of how many or what kind.

Edited December 20, 2011 by prairiechickin

[mentalfloss]

Here's a snippet from the ad:

Edited December 20, 2011 by mentalfloss

[PIK]

The reasons the Tories were giving to get rid of it was that law-bidding farmer's and hunters were looked like they were criminals because they had to register. What I'm saying that every gun owner that is licensed is law-bidding UNTIL they use it to KILL someone then they become a ciminal, right? I hope the provinces do start with their own registry and they can by using the licences issued by gun stores.

The reg will NOT STOP THAT PERSON FROM KILLING SOMEONE. My god some people are hardheaded. All they have to do is check to see who bought a hunting lic or bought a P.A.L. and of course the bullets are reg now, so how much more of this shit are we suppose to put up with so the citiots can feel good. Edited December 20, 2011 by PIK

[PIK]

Quoted for posterity.

I love it, when people go out of their way to try and embarress a poster over his grammer, means he got bytched slap by that person.