CPCFTW Posted December 16, 2011 Report Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCATRE7BF06Q20111216 Credit rating agency Moody's lowered its outlook on Ontario's debt ratings to 'negative' to reflect the Canadian province's growing debt burden, even as growth in the region slows down.The revised outlook on Ontario's Aa1 rated debt affects approximately C$190 billion in securities issued by Canada's most populous province. "The negative outlook on the province reflects the softening economic outlook, Ontario's growing debt burden, and the extended timeframe to achieving a balanced budget," said Moody's Assistant Vice President Jennifer Wong, lead analyst for the Province of Ontario Last month, Ontario government had slashed its growth, revenue and reserve targets but had reiterated the timetable for eliminating its 2011-12 deficit of C$16 billion ($15.2 billion) by 2017-18. This revision comes within days of the agency's announcement of its intention to review its ratings for all European Union countries in the beginning of 2012. Why couldn't Moody's do this before the election? Now we have to endure 4 more years of Dalton continuing to turn Ontario into Canada's Greece. Edited December 16, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote
jacee Posted December 16, 2011 Report Posted December 16, 2011 Do you also diss Harper for the federal debt, and their misleading financial projections? Political partisanship evades the necessity for reasoned solutions. Blaming isn't a solution to anything. Quote
Wild Bill Posted December 16, 2011 Report Posted December 16, 2011 Do you also diss Harper for the federal debt, and their misleading financial projections? Political partisanship evades the necessity for reasoned solutions. Blaming isn't a solution to anything. This from the man who would blame Harper for bad weather... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
CPCFTW Posted December 16, 2011 Author Report Posted December 16, 2011 Do you also diss Harper for the federal debt, and their misleading financial projections? Political partisanship evades the necessity for reasoned solutions. Blaming isn't a solution to anything. Yes blaming isn't a solution to anything... unless it's blaming the evil predator 1%ers and the pigs who protect them!!!! Quote
Topaz Posted December 16, 2011 Report Posted December 16, 2011 Well, for the workers in Oshawa, GM is sinking 68 Mil for a new Chevy line. Ontario without maufacturing is like Alberta without the oil sands and so until maufacturing comes back, things will be tight. So how would any of you bring business back to Ontario if you were Premier? (This should be good) Quote
CPCFTW Posted December 16, 2011 Author Report Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Well, for the workers in Oshawa, GM is sinking 68 Mil for a new Chevy line. Ontario without maufacturing is like Alberta without the oil sands and so until maufacturing comes back, things will be tight. So how would any of you bring business back to Ontario if you were Premier? (This should be good) You mean the evil corporation GM is investing in Ontario? How evil of them! Pretty simple how to bring manufacturing back to Ontario... cut the spending on entitlements, get rid of minimum wage (or don't place the entire onus of providing a minimum wage on the manufacturer), and start spending on bringing the evil job-creating corporations back. Edited December 16, 2011 by CPCFTW Quote
Moonbox Posted December 16, 2011 Report Posted December 16, 2011 Well, for the workers in Oshawa, GM is sinking 68 Mil for a new Chevy line. Ontario without maufacturing is like Alberta without the oil sands and so until maufacturing comes back, things will be tight. So how would any of you bring business back to Ontario if you were Premier? (This should be good) You would stop throwing money away at economically useless subsidies and panders like solar power and lower the capital investment tax for corporations (which is one of the highest in the WORLD) that discourages companies from investing money into things like new manufacturing plants and modernization. That would be a start at least. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
guyser Posted December 16, 2011 Report Posted December 16, 2011 Pretty simple how to bring manufacturing back to Ontario... cut the spending on entitlements, get rid of minimum wage (or don't place the entire onus of providing a minimum wage on the manufacturer), and start spending on bringing the evil job-creating corporations back. Pretty simple huh? Well, simply put, none of those are reasons it would work or not. Simple.....yea. Quote
Topaz Posted December 16, 2011 Report Posted December 16, 2011 I don't think corps. will come back to NA until the workers in Third Countries demand more money and better working conditions and that will take a generation. Of course, there's always Mother Nature doing her worse,or a war but short of that,manufacturing will probably not return for along time. Quote
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Posted December 17, 2011 Did Moodys get bored of Europe already Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted December 17, 2011 Report Posted December 17, 2011 Pretty simple huh? Well, simply put, none of those are reasons it would work or not. Simple.....yea. You are forgetting that CPC speaks from the vision of Conservatopia. Where half of the population lives in shacks, shanty's or earthen clay homes... Where a large number of people starve to death, unable to find a job to feed themselves let alone a family... Where a large percentage of the population don't even have access to clean, potable water. Where large corporation are allowed to rape the environment with not penalty and leave the human survivors with the toxic remainders and cost of cleanup. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Wild Bill Posted December 17, 2011 Report Posted December 17, 2011 When I was a kid, back before the last Ice Age, Ontario was known as a source of cheap electricity. What with Niagara Falls and other hydro electric operations and later all the nukes up in the Bruce Peninsula Ontario was known as a good place for manufacturing. You see, manufacturers use LOTS of electricity! Aluminum, nickel and other metal smelting plants use a FEROCIOUS amount of electricity! So electrical energy is a BIG part of a manufacturer's costs! Today, we are no longer that source of cheap power. If it is cheaper to send the ore to China, have THEM use the electricity and ship the refined metal back here, then we must be totally uncompetitive with our electricity rates. Remember, shipping all that heavy ore is not cheap! It costs much more than just your Purolator parcel holding your Christmas gift to your Grandma in Pictou, Nova Scotia. Getting our electricity supply up and the cost down would help manufacturing a LOT! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Jack Weber Posted December 17, 2011 Report Posted December 17, 2011 You mean the evil corporation GM is investing in Ontario? How evil of them! Pretty simple how to bring manufacturing back to Ontario... cut the spending on entitlements, get rid of minimum wage (or don't place the entire onus of providing a minimum wage on the manufacturer), and start spending on bringing the evil job-creating corporations back. What about those dirty unions,Uncle Milty....Waddya gonna do 'bout them? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted December 17, 2011 Report Posted December 17, 2011 You are forgetting that CPC speaks from the vision of Conservatopia. Where half of the population lives in shacks, shanty's or earthen clay homes... Where a large number of people starve to death, unable to find a job to feed themselves let alone a family... Where a large percentage of the population don't even have access to clean, potable water. Where large corporation are allowed to rape the environment with not penalty and leave the human survivors with the toxic remainders and cost of cleanup. "Let the free market reign!!!!" 'Cause Uncle Milty told him so.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wild Bill Posted December 17, 2011 Report Posted December 17, 2011 "Let the free market reign!!!!" 'Cause Uncle Milty told him so.... I dunno about you Jack but in my 59 years I've never seen a free market. Somehow, somebody's always got it rigged! In their favour too, of course. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
CPCFTW Posted December 17, 2011 Author Report Posted December 17, 2011 What about those dirty unions,Uncle Milty....Waddya gonna do 'bout them? Crush them! Quote
CPCFTW Posted December 17, 2011 Author Report Posted December 17, 2011 You are forgetting that CPC speaks from the vision of Conservatopia. Where half of the population lives in shacks, shanty's or earthen clay homes... Where a large number of people starve to death, unable to find a job to feed themselves let alone a family... Where a large percentage of the population don't even have access to clean, potable water. Where large corporation are allowed to rape the environment with not penalty and leave the human survivors with the toxic remainders and cost of cleanup. That's called earth not conservatopia. What planet do you live on? Quote
Evening Star Posted December 18, 2011 Report Posted December 18, 2011 That's called earth not conservatopia. What planet do you live on? Got to give him this one. Quote
Jack Weber Posted December 18, 2011 Report Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) Crush them! And how would this come about,Herr Brother Koch? Edited December 18, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted December 18, 2011 Report Posted December 18, 2011 I dunno about you Jack but in my 59 years I've never seen a free market. Somehow, somebody's always got it rigged! In their favour too, of course. Nor should we ever see a "free market"...Most people would be reduced to living like animals in that scenario...I can envision that type of reality as nightmarish as any Marxist nightmare I can think of... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
MiddleClassCentrist Posted December 18, 2011 Report Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) Got to give him this one. And our economy is capitalism onn the global scale. But he wants to make those the norm in North America for the sake of providing corporations with cheap labour. Edited December 18, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Scotty Posted December 18, 2011 Report Posted December 18, 2011 Well, for the workers in Oshawa, GM is sinking 68 Mil for a new Chevy line. Ontario without maufacturing is like Alberta without the oil sands and so until maufacturing comes back, things will be tight. So how would any of you bring business back to Ontario if you were Premier? (This should be good) How about we do away with the Green program? It's been a disaster from day one, run by the premier himself often without even consultation with the Ontario Energy Board or the Ontario Power Authority. It's cost billions of dollars in tax money which could have been spent on programs to encourage manufacturing, or on tax cuts, or on paying down the deficit, and it's resulted in dramatically increased power costs, which, as you might expect, have a strong, negative effect on manufacturing. As a Torstar report on Ontario Auditor General's report noted last week. The government claimed 50,000 jobs would be created. To date, it claims 20,000 but the auditor points out that most of these are short-term construction jobs. The auditor notes that studies in other jurisdictions show that for each job created, two to four jobs are lost in other sectors, and that each job created costs $179,000. Toronto Star I would suggest that common logic says that manufacturing is the sector most affected by skyrocketing energy prices. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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