Who is the greatest Prime Minister of all time?

[cybercoma]

Due to length constraints, I have opted to leave the following Prime Ministers off the list:

Kim Campbell

John Turner

Joe Clark

Sir Charles Tupper

Sir Mackenzie Bowell

Sir John Thompson

Sir John Abbott

Who has been Canada's greatest Prime Minister. The poll is private, but feel free to discuss your answers here.

[cybercoma]

I'm not sure who picked St. Laurent, but he is quite often overlooked and did a ton of stuff for this country.

[Guest Derek L]

In my opinion, Louis St. Laurent.....Perhaps our last true, Classic liberal Prime Minister……

[Guest Derek L]

I'm not sure who picked St. Laurent, but he is quite often overlooked and did a ton of stuff for this country.

[Evening Star]

In my experience, everyone who is left of centre (further left than Michael Ignatieff, say) picks either LBP or PET. (Perhaps I'll be proven wrong on this board.) And I struggle to choose between them. Here's where things get tricky: LBP's highs were higher and PET's lows were lower. So why is there a question? There is a question because more than any other PM about whom I know enough to comment on, PET was really obviously driven by his own ambitious, independent vision. While e.g. I think student loans would have been introduced sooner or later by any government (or for a later example, I think free trade would have been implemented by any PC), I really believe that official bilingualism and multiculturalism, the abolition of the death penalty, the Charter were all driven by PET himself, that they might not have emerged with another leader. The War Measures Act tips it though. I'm voting Pearson.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Evening Star

[cybercoma]

I think the question that needs to be asked is whether or not you include Pearson's work when he was not Prime Minister. Many of St. Laurent's successes can be directly attributed to Pearson as well.

In that case, does Paul Martin get a shake because of his work as Finance Minister?

No. I don't think that makes any sense at all.

The question is best PM, not best career politician.

sorry... thinking out loud here.

Edited December 15, 2011 by cybercoma

[Evening Star]

Definitely, but then, I also attribute many of Pearson's successes to Trudeau (or Tommy Douglas). It's complicated.

(xpost to your edits!)

Edit: That relates to what I was saying though. It seems much harder to attribute Trudeau's successes to Turner or Chretien.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Evening Star

[Guest Derek L]

I think the question that needs to be asked is whether or not you include Pearson's work when he was not Prime Minister. Many of St. Laurent's successes can be directly attributed to Pearson as well.

Ahh, but "Uncle Louis" drafted Pearson, and Pearson’s actions during Suez, that garnered him his Nobel Prize, were at the Direction of St. Laurent.......

[cybercoma]

Ahh, but "Uncle Louis" drafted Pearson, and Pearson’s actions during Suez, that garnered him his Nobel Prize, were at the Direction of St. Laurent.......

I don't disagree with you. This implies then that a Prime Minister is directly responsible for all of his/her MPs failures as well. You can't give them credit for their successes, then let them off the hook for their MPs' failures.

Edited December 15, 2011 by cybercoma

[Newfoundlander]

Kim Campbell could have probably been great.

[Guest Derek L]

I don't disagree with you. This implies then that a Prime Minister is directly responsible for all of his/her MPs failures as well. You can't give them credit for their successes, then let them off the hook for their MPs' failures.

That’s a valid point, but Lester Pearson’s “plan” for the United Nations Emergency Force in Suez, was St Laurent’s defacto “plan” for what was earlier bastardized in Korea……..Many of the lessons learned during the Korean conflict, were applied in Suez….The sense of urgency to which they were applied, was obviously helped by Ike’s dislike for what he felt was an extension of European colonialism and the Commies having nukes also helped………point being, in my view, I feel Pearson’s role was inflated and St Laurent’s minimized……The above mentioned “outside” factors also helped……I think this brings us back to the topic of the thread…….Any mention of Pearson’s role in implementing policy under another Prime Minster, shouldn’t have any bearing on his standing as ‘Canada’s greatest Prime Minister”.....

[olp1fan]

I wish I could vote but there's no one I'd vote for

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I wish I could vote but there's no one I'd vote for

Now there is a lame response!

[Cameron]

Do people know enough about our PM's to actually give an educated response? PET has had probably the most media coverage in modern times to dilute the pool of knowledge.

I vote Borden.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Cameron

[cybercoma]

Do people know enough about our PM's to actually give an educated response? PET has had probably the most media coverage in modern times to dilute the pool of knowledge.

I vote Borden.

It's unlikely that most people know a lot about all of our PMs, but I think this thread gives us the opportunity to discuss them and hopefully encourage people to learn about them. I listed every single one of them, so if someone is unfamiliar with one, they can go look the PM up or ask here and we can have a chat about it.

[CPCFTW]

Thirty years from now historians will unanimously agree on Stephen Harper. And if they don't, the Harper government will crush the puny socialist swine.

[jacee]

Thirty years from now historians will unanimously agree on Stephen Harper. And if they don't, the Harper government will crush the puny socialist swine.

Ya ... that'll really help him.

Edited December 16, 2011 by jacee

[Bryan]

Thirty years from now historians will unanimously agree on Stephen Harper. And if they don't, the Harper government will crush the puny socialist swine.

In all seriousness, I think you have at least a partial point: in the long run, Harper most likely will be judged as one of the true greats. Sure, the opposition hates the ideology of some of the things his govt. is doing right now, but how many other politicians in recent times actually went about doing the very things they promised to do during an election? It's an incredible thing to behold.

I hope you're right about the crushing socialists part though.

[Evening Star]

Ha, I was just about to ask what was so truly great about Harper, even trying to put ideology aside. I kind of assumed that most of his supporters saw him as a competent administrator who was the best available option so I'm a little astounded to see so many votes for him in this poll. What are the historic achievements that put him ahead of every other prime minister since 1867? I can see why someone who leans right might pick St Laurent, Borden, MacDonald (of course), Chretien for that matter. Even Mulroney seems more accomplished to me.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Evening Star

[Topaz]

In all seriousness, I think you have at least a partial point: in the long run, Harper most likely will be judged as one of the true greats. Sure, the opposition hates the ideology of some of the things his govt. is doing right now, but how many other politicians in recent times actually went about doing the very things they promised to do during an election? It's an incredible thing to behold.

I hope you're right about the crushing socialists part though.

Does the name Mike Harris ring a bell? Yeah, he did what he said he do and more and its the more that Ontarians hates him for. Harper is going the same track and the only difference is there's more people in Canada than Ontario.

[eyeball]

I don't know about the greatest Prime Minister of all time, but the last one, should I be lucky enough to live long enough to see that day, will be my favourite.

[Jack Weber]

Thirty years from now historians will unanimously agree on Stephen Harper. And if they don't, the Harper government will crush the puny socialist swine.

Is he going to declare himslef Prime Minister for Life???

That would be rather dictatorial of him,would'nt it???Kind of undemocratic?

Oh,wait a minute...

[Jack Weber]

Laurier....

[cybercoma]

In all seriousness, I think you have at least a partial point: in the long run, Harper most likely will be judged as one of the true greats. Sure, the opposition hates the ideology of some of the things his govt. is doing right now, but how many other politicians in recent times actually went about doing the very things they promised to do during an election? It's an incredible thing to behold.

I hope you're right about the crushing socialists part though.

I hope you're right. He certainly has the potential to be one of the greats, but so far his accomplishments haven't been anything that will have lasting historical significance. Not anything positive anyway: C-10 will be remember as one of the worst pieces of legislation ever drafted. It will be interesting to see how the CWB deal (C-18) pans out with the court challenge because that will either be the greatest thing he has done or it will cost him in the next election.

[cybercoma]

Ha, I was just about to ask what was so truly great about Harper, even trying to put ideology aside. I kind of assumed that most of his supporters saw him as a competent administrator who was the best available option so I'm a little astounded to see so many votes for him in this poll. What are the historic achievements that put him ahead of every other prime minister since 1867? I can see why someone who leans right might pick St Laurent, Borden, MacDonald (of course), Chretien for that matter. Even Mulroney seems more accomplished to me.

Macdonald, Borden, and Mulroney are all Conservatives that are head and shoulders above Harper at this point. You can't even say that he toppled the Liberals because the party imploded and Canada was left with no viable alternative. Jack Layton is more significant than Harper for breaking the Bloc Quebecois stranglehold on Quebec.