Gender Equality in Canada and the US

[cybercoma]

If you haven't seen the movie Miss Representation I would suggest hunting it down. It's worth seeing. There's a great review of it here. Here are some of the statistics from the movie:

78% of girls hate their bodies by the age of 15. 65% have an eating disorder. 17% cut themselves, and the number of cosmetic surgeries quadrupled on women ages 17 from 1997 and 2007 and have increased six fold since. Woman are 56% of the population, yet only 17% of Congress, 3% of Fortune 500 CEO’s, hold only 3% of clout positions in media ( and in a staggering unreal statistic, only 1 women is on the board of Fox News out of 15 ) and are 7% of directors and 13% of the film writers. These are all jaw dropping statistics quoted in Miss Representation and yet the predominant message we hear over and over, is that women have broken through the glass ceiling, that feminism isn’t necessary and above all, that empowerment for women is by having control of a sexualized, “good” body.

Here is an extended 8 min trailer:

Don't think that this is limited to the United States though. Not only are we consumers of American media, but we have our own problems in Canada:

http://www.fafia-afai.org/files/FAFIA_Canada_CEDAW_2008.pdf

Here it is argued that Canada contravenes the International Covenant for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women with evidence indicating many of the ways women are discriminated against.

[cybercoma]

"In Rape Culture, All Men Are Guilty Until Proven Innocent"

Why is it that men are always guilty until proven innocent? I know there are some “bad guys” out there, but it is incredibly hurtful to me that women won’t smile at me in the hallways or on the street because they have lumped me in with all the others! I get so tired of paying the price—in terms of women’s mistrust—for other men’s failures and betrayals and bad behavior. Why can’t women see what a good guy I am?

Answers here:

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/in-rape-culture-all-men-are-guilty-until-proven-innocent/

[cybercoma]

I've decided to use this thread for interesting Feminist literature that I come across. Even if it means talking to myself. I know the majority of this forum is male, but I think we need to enter into a Fourth-Wave of feminism that involves more men taking action against gender inequality in our society. Things will only change if we all work together. The first step is becoming informed.

[Bob]

"Gender inequality".... another phantom for a leftist like you to chase indefinitely. Ever consider the fact that there's this thing called "pregnancy" that can occur in a woman's life, and it can occur more than once, that can take away time that'd otherwise be used towards career progression, and that this thing called "pregnancy" doesn't happen to men?

There are also several professions that are overwhelmingly dominated by females, yet we hear little about "gender equality" there.

Then there's the "gender inequality" of child custody as a consequence of separation/divorce with most judgments being in favour of the mother.

Please continue sharing fake statistics about "78% of girls hating their bodies by age 15" in order to drum up hysteria about a non-existent issue. Then go make some "equal pay for equal work!" signs and go join Obama while he chases the same phantom. This thread, coming from you, completely fits in with the ridiculous assertions you made in the thread about the new rules for showing one's face during the citizenship oath, where you asserted that political women are held to some different standard with respect to their appearance than men. While that may be true to some small degree (although it probably isn't), it's largely inconsequential.

[cybercoma]

Women can work when they're pregnant, most often right up until their due date. They can also return to work in a few weeks typically. Of course, that would require the husband to stay home with the baby. Our sexist society makes it the woman's responsibility though.

There are several professions dominated by women. They're lower paid, less prestigious and hold less political power than those professions dominated by men. When women do make inroads into traditionally prestigious jobs, like physicians for instance, we begin to see a shift where there are more and more "specialists" in medicine. They're paid more and have a narrower field of knowledge.

As for custody, you're right, but please refer back to my first paragraph about pregnancy. Moreover, no father is denied custody unless there's a very good reason for it. Join custody is not a denial of custody.

Your last paragraph is a bunch of nonsensical rambling. Get back to me when you actually have something to say that isn't some variation of "nuh uh! Thems all lies!"

[cybercoma]

Now that Christmas is over and the toys are all unwrapped, this article is rather timely.

At issue, then, is not nature or nurture but how nurture becomes nature: the environment in which children play and grow can encourage a range of aptitudes or foreclose them. So blithely indulging — let alone exploiting — stereotypically gendered play patterns may have a more negative long-term impact on kids’ potential than parents imagine. And promoting, without forcing, cross-sex friendships as well as a breadth of play styles may be more beneficial. There is even evidence that children who have opposite-sex friendships during their early years have healthier romantic relationships as teenagers.

Read the full article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/opinion/does-stripping-gender-from-toys-really-make-sense.html?_r=2

Gendered toys, it appears, may be problematic. It seems they encourage children to adopt very specific gendered roles that are not necessarily biologically pre-determined.

[CPCFTW]

Oh noes you mean my girls might act feminine instead of masculine if I give them dolls to play with?!?! Thanks for the heads up Cybercoma!! I will be sure to give my children nothing that could give them any ideas of gender roles.

"I brought you another set of blocks to play with little Suzie!!"

[cybercoma]

Is that how you understood the statement "supporting cross-sex friendships as well as a breadth of play styles"? Because what you said is not what that says.

[CPCFTW]

Is that how you understood the statement "supporting cross-sex friendships as well as a breadth of play styles"? Because what you said is not what that says.

"Here's your barbie little Suzie... oh Barbie is a supermodel now Suzie? That's very nice! But how about we pretend Barbie is a corporate lawyer instead?!? Lets see if Barbie can make it to partner!! Wheeeee!!!!"

Edited January 10, 2012 by CPCFTW

[Melanie_]

Sigh. Cybercoma presents an articulate, interesting, and meaningful thread for discussion. And it gets highjacked by the knuckle draggers.

[Michael Hardner]

Sigh. Cybercoma presents an articulate, interesting, and meaningful thread for discussion. And it gets highjacked by the knuckle draggers.

I agree that CPCFTW wasn't really adding much to the conversation. Ridicule can have its place, but this could be an interesting discussion.

[Guest Manny]

I think we as parents sometimes worry too much about these things, psychology of kids upbringing and making sure their play/ toys are giving appropriate messages. The kids will sort out a lot of these things by themselves.

[peg_city]

Cybercoma brings up some good point. On both sides of the fence there is gender inequality as well as racial inequality, ageism etc.

To be honest I don't know if anything can be done over the short term, however. Just let it get dealt with through the courts and go on and live your life.

[huh]

Cybercoma brings up some good point. On both sides of the fence there is gender inequality as well as racial inequality, ageism etc.

To be honest I don't know if anything can be done over the short term, however. Just let it get dealt with through the courts and go on and live your life.

Nearly 1 out of every 5 girls is cutting themsleves? Thats about as likely as 1 out of every 3 women being raped, but then when some women consider pouting for sex by their partners sexual assault, even rape, it's no wonder these ridiculous statistics materialize.

[cybercoma]

Nearly 1 out of every 5 girls is cutting themsleves? Thats about as likely as 1 out of every 3 women being raped, but then when some women consider pouting for sex by their partners sexual assault, even rape, it's no wonder these ridiculous statistics materialize.

This is insanely offensive. Did you even look at the statistics? It's 1 out of 4 women are VIOLENTLY assaulted.

[prairiechickin]

I looked at the source of your statistics and moved on to other threads.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

This is actually one of my topics that I get annoyed with.

I'll become a feminist when they argue for true equality:

- paying the same on insurance.

- hiring males in professions where men are under represented.

- expect to pay for their own dinner

- boycott clubs that give free cover to women

- argue that funding for male and female health concerns be equalized.

Why might they be paid less?

- They take more time off work

- Women are less likely to ask for a raise

- Women require maternity leave, especially if they want to do it right and breastfeed their children. Men don't have breasts, so they aren't a valid replacement for the natural way. Maternity leave takes time away from building a career but, gives a mother INVALUABLE time with her child... That is a good trade off in my opinion. I wish I was staying home with my kids... but mine (the little one at least) is still being breastfed.

I'm not sure about the statistics, I looked into them when I first saw them during my time in University. The man hating feminists lost me when they started arguing that a husband harmlessly convincing his wife into sex was sexual assault because she did it but didn't really want to. That goes both ways one time or another. Wife wants it, husband is drained. Husband wants it, wife is drained. Don't take me as trying to minimize the occurrence of violent acts against women. I do not approve or condone them. But, based on what the feminists were telling me, their statistics seemed embellished. I could make the occurrence of violent attacks look more prevalent too, if I including shoving between friends as a violent attack.

One thing you will get me on board for, is to remove all gender based toys for children. Just try to find a frickin' pink mechanical toy at Toy's R' Us. I'd advocate to require all toys to have equal representation in marketing them... A boy playing with dolls, a girl playing with the toy tool bench etc.

Edited January 19, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[sharkman]

Feminists consider persuading sex to be assault? Good grief, talk about women without a frickin clue. You make good points about them needing to give up the perks women get but I have a feeling that cyber won't concur.

[waldo]

Feminists consider persuading sex to be assault? Good grief, talk about women without a frickin clue. You make good points about them needing to give up the perks women get but I have a feeling that cyber won't concur.

I note you took generalized liberties with the previous poster's unqualified reference to "man hating" feminists.

[Guest Peeves]

Sigh. Cybercoma presents an articulate, interesting, and meaningful thread for discussion. And it gets highjacked by the knuckle draggers.

Indeed. I thought it was good reading. Why some have to go off point for no apparent reason is beyond me.

Now let us continue.

[cybercoma]

Feminists consider persuading sex to be assault? Good grief, talk about women without a frickin clue. You make good points about them needing to give up the perks women get but I have a feeling that cyber won't concur.

You're right. I won't.

And the alternative to coercing someone into having sex with you is having sex with someone that actually wants to. No woman or man for that matter, needs to be persuaded into sleeping with anyone. It's their own choice that they should be free to make without being pressured into it.

Edited January 20, 2012 by cybercoma

[sharkman]

Persuading someone to do you a favour is a far cry from assault.

[cybercoma]

Using people as a means to an end, rather than treating them as ends in themselves is considered unethical according to Kant. Sex should not be treated as a "favour". Go masturbate.

[sharkman]

Man you really have an odd view of sex. We live in Canada, not 18th century Germany. If my wife needs it and I'm really tired I should just tell her to masturbate, eh? So that's how things are at your house...

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I note you took generalized liberties with the previous poster's unqualified reference to "man hating" feminists.

These feminists were indeed man-hating. Not all feminists are man hating.