maplesyrup Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Cash for cities carries catch Ottawa is getting directly involved in helping out our municipalities. If the provinces object, as some of them will no doubt do, perhaps Canadians should consider abolishing the provinces. What do we need the provinces for anyways? All they seem to do is whine or complain. If Canadians are so concerned about the high cost of government, what better way to address that issue, than abolish our provinces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 If your worried about those that "whine or complain", instead of abolishing the provinces, let's abolish Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terrible Sweal Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I think we should realign the provinces and make more of them, at the same time recognizing the importance of urban centres as follows: -Join mainland NS and NB together as one province -Create another Nunavut type area out of Labrador and Norther Quebec -Join PEI, the island of Nfld., and Cape Breton together as a province. -Make metropolitan Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver provinces. Split the rest of Ontario into S.West, Central-East, and Northern provinces. -Split Alberta roughly into North and South portions with Calgary becoming capital of the South part. -Split Vancouver Island off as a province of its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I think we should realign the provinces and make more of them, at the same time recognizing the importance of urban centres as follows:-Join NS, NB and PEI together. -Create another Nunavut type area out of Labrador and Norther Quebec -Make metropolitan Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver provinces. Split the rest of Ontario into S.West, Central-East, and Northern provinces. Split Alberta roughly into North and South portions with Calgary becoming capital of the South part. Split Vancouver Island off as a province of its own. And why is that? To create more bureaucracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Well, if one is concerned about size of our civil service, let's abolish or at least amalgamate the provinces into the various regions in Canada: 1 - BC 2 - Prairies 3 - Ontario 4 - Quebec 5 - Atlantic 6 - North This would reduce the provincial or territorial governments from 13 to 6, more than a 50% reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Hey, why don't we just rip up the Constitution and burn our flag while we're at it? It never ceases to amaze me how the same people who consider themselves guardians of what it is to be Canadian feel not the slightest hesitation to throw away our history and our heritage if it advances their Leftist Hidden Agenda to have everyone subservient to one Big Brother Governmnet. Amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 This proposal makes sense. Health care services vary depending upon where you live. Many university students wonder why the same course in one province is not credited in another. This is sometimes the case within provinces etc. Splitting up the country like this does nothing to promote national unity and encourages levels of gov't to blame each other for mistakes. Seems to me that right wingers should be encouraging this tax cut. Why do we need city gov'ts, provinces, the feds and the senate? With majority fed. gov'ts, we always have the tyranny of the majority anyways and the provinces can do nothing about it. Waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 This proposal makes sense. Health care services vary depending upon where you live. Many university students wonder why the same course in one province is not credited in another. This is sometimes the case within provinces etc. Splitting up the country like this does nothing to promote national unity and encourages levels of gov't to blame each other for mistakes.Seems to me that right wingers should be encouraging this tax cut. Why do we need city gov'ts, provinces, the feds and the senate? With majority fed. gov'ts, we always have the tyranny of the majority anyways and the provinces can do nothing about it. So you would be in favour of someone in Ottawa telling a person out west, in say suburban Victoria which days they could water their lawn? Thats the attitude though....things don't go your way, bend over and take it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 This proposal makes sense. It does nothing of the sort. It has as much chance at reality as does Canada having an aircraft carrier. The whole idea of getting rid of the provinces is as anti-Canadian as anything I have heard in recent memory. But the Left seems to only care about what is Canadian when it involves their Big Government ideology. Getting rid of the provinces. Hey, why don't we just get rid of the beaver on our Nickels, or just say that Jack Layton was our first Prime Minister instead of John A. What extremist nonsense. And it has NO chance at reality. ZERO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Cartman.....good point about abolishing the senate. Wow, think about all the money this would save taxpayers. We need national standards in so many areas in this tiny populated country of ours. Godfrey the new federal municipalities minister is going to provide some gas tax relief to the muncipalities but with strings attached - the Greening of Canada. Canada needs to get going on environmental issues, and lead the world in addressing global warming. The same for the new federal health care minister - no moola without accountability, and agreeing to federal standards. It's about bloody time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 It has as much chance at reality as does Canada having an aircraft carrier Nobody said it is likely to happen, just that it is a good idea economically. The whole idea of getting rid of the provinces is as anti-Canadian as anything I have heard in recent memory No, maintaining different standards of health and education for people due to place of residency is anti-Canadian. :angry: But the Left seems to only care about what is Canadian when it involves their Big Government ideology But the right seems to only care about what is fiscally conservative when it involves getting votes. This proposal is to reduce layers of gov't. Why is the right always interested in reducing gov't but never interested in eliminating the shameful senate? The Left wants to reduce an entire layer of gov't while the right wants to maintain it and you believe that the left holds a "Big Government ideology"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Well we are at it, lets get rid of parliament also. When you think about it, why do individual Canadians (outside of Ontario) really need a voice in government........ Hell another idea to generate/save revenue for Ottawa could be a 100% tax rate........after all Big brother in Ottawa knows whats best for us all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Let me get this straight Stoker. You are saying that eliminating government will cost more money? By your logic, we should create more levels of government. Sounds like something the right would like with their Big Brother mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 No one is suggesting getting rid of local government - our municipalities. But quite frankly, the provinces are starting to drag Canada down, and the senate has been a waste, an old boys patronage club. Why would any clear thinking Canadian want to support these institutions? The reality is the right does not care one iota about reducing government waste, otherwise they would leap at these proposals. The right is only interested in power to turn back the clock to the 20th century - capital punishment, no abortions for women, no gays or lesbians out of the closet, only white Christian immigrants, etc. Maybe, while we are at it, we should take away women's right to vote, seeing as not a lot of them voted for the Conservatives. Back to the good old days, eh boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Let me get this straight Stoker. You are saying that eliminating government will cost more money? By your logic, we should create more levels of government. Sounds like something the right would like with their Big Brother mentality. Ahhhhh No....I'm saying that centralising government will cost us freedoms Centralising government sounds like something the Left would like with their Big Brother mentality. No one is suggesting getting rid of local government - our municipalities. Ahh Cartman did *points finger* Seems to me that right wingers should be encouraging this tax cut. Why do we need city gov'ts, provinces, the feds and the senate? With majority fed. gov'ts, we always have the tyranny of the majority anyways and the provinces can do nothing about it. But quite frankly, the provinces are starting to drag Canada down, and the senate has been a waste, an old boys patronage club. Why would any clear thinking Canadian want to support these institutions? Only certain provinces........ Anyways, the solution isn't giving more power to the feds, but let the individuals (in this case provinces) get by on their own merits. If Quebec wants free childcare or Alberta wants private clinics, why should Newfoundlers or British Columbians have to pay for it. Not every Province shares the same ideas and/or morals on different issues, hence, every province should be aloud to do whats best for themselves. It's called accountability. WRT the Senate, again taking away another Check and Balance is not going to do any of us any good. With that said, I'm 100% in favor of having an elected Senate. The reality is the right does not care one iota about reducing government waste, otherwise they would leap at these proposals. No, I don't "care one iota about reducing" my personal freedom and the Democratic process. The right is only interested in power to turn back the clock to the 20th century - capital punishment, no abortions for women, no gays or lesbians out of the closet, only white Christian immigrants, etc. Maybe, while we are at it, we should take away women's right to vote, seeing as not a lot of them voted for the Conservatives. Back to the good old days, eh boys! Do you have proof that any of those "policies" that you mentioned are also the "policies" of the Conservative party of Canada? If not, maplesyrup you are inching closer to what some might call Slander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 stoker.....so sue me. Why don't you go back to school and learn to read. All you have done since you got here is complained about Canada. Seriously please do us a favour, if it is so bad, go live elsewhere. Most Canadians like it here, too bad you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 stoker.....why don't you go back to school and learn to read. All you have done since you got here is complained about Canada. Seriously please do us a favour, if it is so bad, go live elsewhere. Most Canadians like it here, too bad you don't. I guess when you start "losing a debate" MS, you need to start using personal attacks and/or changing the subject to draw away attention from your weak arguments and counter-points.......to each his/her own I guess Now if you wish to carry on with this topic in an adult fashion, please provide a source or something that will prove that the "policies" that you mentioned are also the "policies" of the Conservative party of Canada. I'm waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eureka Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I have thougtht for a long time that dividing the provinces that the provinces should have been divided into maore manageable entities. I calculate about 25 would make sense. With that there should be a reduction in their powers and and cities should either be placed under federal jurisdiction or given certain jurisdictions themselves instead of their being "prisoners" of the provinces. I would think that a federal system should be kept to reflrct the diversity of the country, but provinces should not now have the powers they do over major matters that should be the entitlement of all Canadians equally. The Senate would have to stay in order to retain a regional voice and a check on Parliament. It would need to have enhanced powerss but not a legislative function or anything that would make it a competitor to the Commons. It must also not be elected since that would make it merely a political arm of the Provinces and require more campaigning every so many years. That would inevitably politicize the body and the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 cities should either be placed under federal jurisdiction or given certain jurisdictions themselves instead of their being "prisoners" of the provinces.I would think that a federal system should be kept to reflrct the diversity of the country, but provinces should not now have the powers they do over major matters that should be the entitlement of all Canadians equally. I agree with the above, especially the part about the cities being prisoners of the provinces. There has been major abuse of muncipalities by provincial governments for way too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoker Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I have thougtht for a long time that dividing the provinces that the provinces should have been divided into maore manageable entities. I calculate about 25 would make sense. With that there should be a reduction in their powers and and cities should either be placed under federal jurisdiction or given certain jurisdictions themselves instead of their being "prisoners" of the provinces. Why should the City of Vancouver or Victoria have more clout then say Port Hardy or Merrit? I would think that a federal system should be kept to reflrct the diversity of the country, but provinces should not now have the powers they do over major matters that should be the entitlement of all Canadians equally. Why? Do you think a Province that is not held back by federal government restrictions, couldn't or shouldn't, be aloud to look after their own? The Senate would have to stay in order to retain a regional voice and a check on Parliament. It would need to have enhanced powerss but not a legislative function or anything that would make it a competitor to the Commons. It must also not be elected since that would make it merely a political arm of the Provinces and require more campaigning every so many years. That would inevitably politicize the body and the process. How can/could the Senate become effective as a tool to be a true "regional voice and a check on Parliament", if it's not elected by the people it's meant to represent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 QUOTEÂ No one is suggesting getting rid of local government - our municipalities. Ahh Cartman did *points finger* QUOTEÂ Seems to me that right wingers should be encouraging this tax cut. Why do we need city gov'ts, provinces, the feds and the senate? With majority fed. gov'ts, we always have the tyranny of the majority anyways and the provinces can do nothing about it. Taken out of context. In this quote, I am not suggesting we eliminate ALL levels of gov't of course. As we already have regional reps. in Ottawa and the Provinces really have little effect on the feds., I am not yet convinced that the regions would be any less well off in such a scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 The whole idea of getting rid of the provinces is as anti-Canadian as anything I have heard in recent memory No, maintaining different standards of health and education for people due to place of residency is anti-Canadian. :angry: How is it anti-Canadian? The *constitution* of our country awards those powers to the provinces. How can our very CONSTITUTION be anti-Canadian? I find this very interesting. The people who support provinces maintaining the role set out in the constitution are being called anti-Canadian by people who want to trash the constitution. The irony is intriguing. -kimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakunin Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 i just think that the federal government is obsolete. Evry important issues are provincial juridiction and the federal government not knowing what to do just keep embarassing the provinces in their work. We could centralize it to make it more modern but the province will never accept it. But their is another solution, abolish the federal government and create a more adequate entity to take care of the responsibility that can't be dealt by the provinces individually. People need to be realistic, the federal government will never be able to get more centralized without fighting constantly the provinces and splitting the country while revising the federal entity could help the unity and harmony in the country. The provinces don't need to have a big brother to force them to do what they don't want, it just make them frustrated, unproductive and it slow down their beautifull identity and particularity. Im in favor of kyoto, but if the alberta province don't wan't to be part of it, i respect that and ill fight for their right not to be part of it. I think that if someone doesn't understand that, its because they like to see other people to be forced to accept their point of vue and i think this is totally stupid and undemocratic. il finish with these word on the province : "To each according their need, to each according their capacity." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playfullfellow Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 So more beaurocracy will help the country be a better place? We already have too much government as it is. How is more going to make it better. The only purpose of the Feds to seemingly give more power to municipalities is to turn them against the provinces. It is just another ploy at power buying. Sheesh, they have promised more power and representation to the provinces for years and I am still waiting for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 How is it anti-Canadian? The *constitution* of our country awards those powers to the provinces. How can our very CONSTITUTION be anti-Canadian? I find this very interesting. The people who support provinces maintaining the role set out in the constitution are being called anti-Canadian by people who want to trash the constitution. The irony is intriguing. The irony IS intriguing, but not for the reasons you specify. I never said anyone is anti-Canadian, I said inequality of service is anti-Canadian. The Canadian Constitution was not written in stone by God, it can be changed by people when it can be improved. It is ironic when right wingers want to reduce government but do not reduce government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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