Canadian Wages Plummet

[olp1fan]

Building and running prisons provide good paying jobs. They also require many other businesses to service and maintain them. Besides, it hasn't been done yet so so any connection to the present job situation is just ideological bullshit.

listen to you talking bout prison jobs but totally ignoring the harm this will do to society

marijuana smokers are not hardened criminals

[dre]

Yes, that's true, I suppose. It isn't true for me, or others in my family, but I can see where that would we a problem.

Well its not "killing" me but I'm starting to feel it. Gas is a pretty big part of my budget, and so is food and electricity. Prices are going up pretty fast.

Energy prices increased 11.7% during the 12 months to October, easing from the 12.5% gain in September. On a year-over-year basis, gasoline prices rose 18.2%, after advancing 22.7% in September. Prices for fuel oil increased 22.1% in October, following a 27.4% rise the month before. Prices for electricity rose while prices for natural gas continued to decline.

Consumers paid 4.3% more for food in the 12 months to October, matching the gain posted in September.

[Wilber]

listen to you talking bout prison jobs but totally ignoring the harm this will do to society

marijuana smokers are not hardened criminals

I thought this thread was about jobs. Whether I agree with a law or not has nothing to do with it. I can chose to break a law and accept whatever consequences there are or I can chose not to. Marijuana smokers do what they do out of choice.

Or are you saying they are addicts?

[olp1fan]

I thought this thread was about jobs. Whether I agree with a law or not has nothing to do with it. I can chose to break a law and accept whatever consequences there are or I can chose not to. Marijuana smokers do what they do out of choice.

Or are you saying they are addicts?

the consequences don't make sense

[Wilber]

the consequences don't make sense

Maybe not but you can chose not to suffer them.

[olp1fan]

Maybe not but you can chose not to suffer them.

what if i like marijuana?

where is the harm in me smoking it?

[dre]

Maybe not but you can chose not to suffer them.

Yup. And make a law saying homosexuals have to wear blue hats, and they could just make sure to wear their blue hats!

[William Ashley]

what if i like marijuana?

where is the harm in me smoking it?

jailtime unless you like smacking up pedos

[Wilber]

what if i like marijuana?

where is the harm in me smoking it?

That's your problem.

[Wilber]

Yup. And make a law saying homosexuals have to wear blue hats, and they could just make sure to wear their blue hats!

Unlike you, I don't think people chose to be homosexuals.

[Battletoads]

Building and running prisons provide good paying jobs.

At major cost an minimum benefit to society.

Again the stupidity of so called Con 'ideas' is evident.

[dre]

Unlike you, I don't think people chose to be homosexuals.

No but they could simply choose to not break the law. In fact you could justify pretty much any law with that.

[dre]

Building and running prisons provide good paying jobs.

No this is fallacy. Every time you throw a worker in prison you are depriving the government of the taxes he would have paid, and about 8 more people need to work full time and pay taxes to cover the 100K it costs to keep him in jail. Most of them time his family will also end up on the dole because theyve now lost most or all of their income.

Trying to justify the act of imprisoning a worker for no good reason, on the basis of economics is a losing proposition right from the get go. The truth is the exact opposite.

[cybercoma]

This means wages scales are headed down.

For 99% of people, yeah.

[Wilber]

No but they could simply choose to not break the law. In fact you could justify pretty much any law with that.

Next you will be mantaining pot smokers are the equivelent of Jews in NAZI Germany. Get over yourselves.

[cybercoma]

Like what? It doesn't matter what they do for the economy for those who only want to concentrate on "ideological bullshit".

They said the same thing in the 30s.

[Topaz]

Who I feel sorry for are those students who are going into heavy debt for an education and when they graduate, they can't find that job. Since times are changing maybe higher education should be put on hold until the economy changes. I guess that would be another way for those young people to make a statement. Can you imagine university laying off professors? Besides, you don't need a university degree to run for MP, who have one of the fruitful pay and pensions in Canada.

[blueblood]

smallc this was going on long before the recession hit. The middle class was making less in 2007 on average than they were in 1987 and, if I recall correctly, that wasn't even inflation-adjusted. It's enough to make you want to puke.

The fact that the rich in Canada have continued to get richer, and that the poor are poorer (thus requiring more in the form of social servicing) leads us to a middle class getting squeezed on both ends. Things are not peachy in Canada for the average Canadian, although at least our banks didn't collapse.

This is what happens when people blow their money on consumption, rather than savings. Every generation they have to start fresh instead of having something passed down and getting larger with every generation.

Western Canada is more peachy because our economy is based more on production and less on consumption like the rest of the continent.

[blueblood]

what if i like marijuana?

where is the harm in me smoking it?

Have fun with poverty then.

[Moonbox]

Actually, I don't recall seeing any statistics that show what you're claiming. As far as I know, the middle class, adjusted for inflation, had made minuscule gains, but had lost no ground.

The middle class, inflation adjusted, saw a $53 increase in median income over a THIRTY FIVE year period. That's not a good statistic Smallc. It's aweful. Productivity and GDP, even inflation adjusted, have grown FAR faster than that per capita over that time period.

The average income in Canada from 1976 to 2009 increased by 17%, inflation adjusted. Sounds great right? Well...no. Median income, the stat that would show what the middle class is making, only grew by 5.5% over 34 years. Why's that??? It's because despite enormous productivity gains over the last 30 years, the wealthy have been pocketing those gains and the middle class, despite improved efficiency, has not seen much benefit at all. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I worked for 30 years straight and I got a 0.16% raise per year. What about you?

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/hot-topics/canInequality.aspx#anchor3

Edited November 25, 2011 by Moonbox

[dre]

This is what happens when people blow their money on consumption, rather than savings. Every generation they have to start fresh instead of having something passed down and getting larger with every generation.

Western Canada is more peachy because our economy is based more on production and less on consumption like the rest of the continent.

Actually high savings rates are the nuclear scenario in our system. Both saving and paying off debt would quickly shrink the monetary base and lead to deflation and depression.

Thats why youre getting all those offers in the mail from banks for pre-approved credit cards, personal loans, and lines of credit. Without all that borrowing and spending this system collapses into a pile of rubble, because without debt theres no money.

[Bonam]

It's because despite enormous productivity gains over the last 30 years, the wealthy have been pocketing those gains and the middle class, despite improved efficiency, has not seen much benefit at all. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I worked for 30 years straight and I got a 0.16% raise per year. What about you?

Depends on what salary I started with. If it was enough to live a comfortable middle class lifestyle and not worry too much about the finances all the time so I could focus on the more important aspects of life, then just having it keep pace with inflation would be good enough for me. Why not?

Edited November 25, 2011 by Bonam

[Bonam]

Actually high savings rates are the nuclear scenario in our system. Both saving and paying off debt would quickly shrink the monetary base and lead to deflation and depression.

Thats why youre getting all those offers in the mail from banks for pre-approved credit cards, personal loans, and lines of credit. Without all that borrowing and spending this system collapses into a pile of rubble, because without debt theres no money.

Guess I'm nuking the system then by saving like 70% of my income.

[dre]

Guess I'm nuking the system then by saving like 70% of my income.

Nope. But if everyone did we would start to have huge problems very quickly.

[Jack Weber]

Hah! You cant just hang this on Harper. This is the "service based economy" we have all hard so much great stuff about over the last 20 years. Its way beyond what any single politician is doing or has done.

Precisely...

It's th coming end game the global free marketeers have always wanted...

1.Equate "free markets" with "personal freedom".

2.Get the masses to buy in ie."What's good for business is good for everyone!"

3.Slowly dismantle the post war social contract on many levels.

4.Make polticians beholden to business instead of the electorate that actually elects them and enact legislation that's "business first".

5.Reverse the wage earning trends from the end of the 2nd World War to around 1979 and send that wealth back upwards into the hands of the few.

30+ years of this has got us where we are at...It will get worse before it gets better because these people,and the hearty advocates for them,never give up anything unless they are forced to.It seems,sadly,these people never learn from histroy at all...