Canada at war with Iran

[DogOnPorch]

EMP attacks are useful, I've seen them used on the show 24 by terrorists quite a few times

They're a fact, Jack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFXlrn6-ypg

[WWWTT]

Your not looking at this in the long term. It is about energy security, the USA has ample reserves and r and d capabilities, but why not use up all that cheap easy to get at middle east oil , use it all and in the long term they're milking a dry cow. After that, the middle east will have zero influence and the west won't have any business there. Whether they diversify their economy with our investments and make their lives better will be up to them. If I have obscene reserves of nat. Gas, easy access to oil, and am the worlds largest grain exporter, I'm going to milk the middle east dry, soak them on grain and then switch to nat gas when the middle east is without a pot to piss in. Problem solved!

I think your right and this is why the west is pissed they are developing nuclear technology!

Essentially Iran is diversifying and is poised to become a world super power.

Attaining a nuclear deterent for protection is essential for a super power.

I don't think we can stop this,nor should we.

If there was a problem it could be the interpretation or what the intention of the Iranian government may be.

You can thank George W bush and the American government for that(and the British government aswell)

Isreal should be doing more on a diplomatic front too.

Actually this whole problem in my opinion can be solved diplomaticlly.

It will take time,but I believe it can be done.

WWWTT

[g_bambino]

oh there's plans...

Prove that, please. And, more importantly, prove those plans are about to be carried out.

[+]

Edited November 14, 2011 by g_bambino

[Tilter]

no, but they oppose Israel

bombing irans nuclear program is nuking russian and chinese interests

must not happen

??????????????????

English please

[Tilter]

interesting article about israeli newspapers insinuating mossad is responsible for the explosion in iran

time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2099376,00.html?xid=gonewsedit

it would explain this

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/israel-hails-blast-at-iran-guards/story-e6frg6so-1226194250209

apparently there was just one big explosion instead of multiple which are common with amunition depot explosions

it was felt 25 miles away in tehran

which is strong

this was not an accident

Wow --- Very insightful. Any reason to question the Accidental" part of this?

I guess you've transferred a lot of munitions in your lifetime---- Where?

[GostHacked]

Who cares how the Libyan people are in a few years…..A long as our investments are safe and they don’t pose a threat towards us, let them run their country the way they want

So what exactly are our interests and investments in Libya? I don't want generic talking points answers.

[Guest Derek L]

So what exactly are our interests and investments in Libya? I don't want generic talking points answers.

Oil.........didn't we have numerous threads on the subject?

[GostHacked]

Oil.........didn't we have numerous threads on the subject?

So killing people bombing a country killing their leader all for the oil is protecting our national interests? I fail to see how this protects our interests.

It protects the corporations interests in making money off a disaster they helped create in combination with our governments.

Libya and the Libyans got screwed hard here.

[Wild Bill]

People are counting on Iranian citizens to revolt but if we attack them they will rally

and get behind their government

then you have a huge problem

How do you know this? You state it as if it's an absolute fact but of course it's just an opinion!

If there are truly so many younger Iranians chafing under the Mullahs' harsh regime, perhaps if there was a foreign attack they would use it as an opportunity to revolt?

After all, internal revolutions rarely succeed on their own. History shows that the successful ones virtually always had external help.

So tell us! How is your premise that Iran's citizens would all support their government a known fact?

[DogOnPorch]

So killing people bombing a country killing their leader all for the oil is protecting our national interests? I fail to see how this protects our interests.

It protects the corporations interests in making money off a disaster they helped create in combination with our governments.

Libya and the Libyans got screwed hard here.

Coulda swore that Daffy was killed by a fellow Libyan. But, GH says it was a Canadian...so must be true.

[Guest Derek L]

So killing people bombing a country killing their leader all for the oil is protecting our national interests? I fail to see how this protects our interests.

It protects the corporations interests in making money off a disaster they helped create in combination with our governments.

Libya and the Libyans got screwed hard here.

How’d they get screwed? Don’t they get the choice now to run the country the way they best see fit? As for the war that “only benefits corporations”, are you suggesting a strong economy is not in all Canadian’s interest?

Would you rather a society in Canada, with low unemployment, a decent standard of living for most, tax revenue to pay for social programs coming out the whazoo, all for the expense of bumping off a dictator now and then on the other side of the planet?

[Wild Bill]

Your not looking at this in the long term. It is about energy security, the USA has ample reserves and r and d capabilities, but why not use up all that cheap easy to get at middle east oil , use it all and in the long term they're milking a dry cow. After that, the middle east will have zero influence and the west won't have any business there. Whether they diversify their economy with our investments and make their lives better will be up to them. If I have obscene reserves of nat. Gas, easy access to oil, and am the worlds largest grain exporter, I'm going to milk the middle east dry, soak them on grain and then switch to nat gas when the middle east is without a pot to piss in. Problem solved!

How long might it take to use up all the Arab oil? Maybe a century or two? What's more, there are some scientists who have a good argument that oil is NOT a finite resource! The pools might become depleted but would slowly refill since new oil is continuously being created. Production would be much slower but not completely finished.

Whatever. We could become self-sufficient very quickly if we wanted but we need to export more, for the money! Balance of trade, you know. How else are we going to afford those Chinese toasters in WalMart?

[blueblood]

How long might it take to use up all the Arab oil? Maybe a century or two? What's more, there are some scientists who have a good argument that oil is NOT a finite resource! The pools might become depleted but would slowly refill since new oil is continuously being created. Production would be much slower but not completely finished.

Whatever. We could become self-sufficient very quickly if we wanted but we need to export more, for the money! Balance of trade, you know. How else are we going to afford those Chinese toasters in WalMart?

You need to look at things in the long term. If you had access to cheap resources and had some in reserves, wouldn't you use the foreign resources first and then use yours. Especially if the resources you have access to come from potentially hostile sources. E great game continues...

[WWWTT]

How do you know this? You state it as if it's an absolute fact but of course it's just an opinion!

If there are truly so many younger Iranians chafing under the Mullahs' harsh regime, perhaps if there was a foreign attack they would use it as an opportunity to revolt?

After all, internal revolutions rarely succeed on their own. History shows that the successful ones virtually always had external help.

So tell us! How is your premise that Iran's citizens would all support their government a known fact?

You do not know much about Iranian history.

First off they are a democratic country.

The extremists in Iran need anti Iranian US,Isreal,Canada etc,etc and trade embargos to strengthen support within their country.

Do you believe the west wants a peacefull and prosperous Iran,or middle east for that matter?

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

How long might it take to use up all the Arab oil? Maybe a century or two? What's more, there are some scientists who have a good argument that oil is NOT a finite resource! The pools might become depleted but would slowly refill since new oil is continuously being created. Production would be much slower but not completely finished.

Whatever. We could become self-sufficient very quickly if we wanted but we need to export more, for the money! Balance of trade, you know. How else are we going to afford those Chinese toasters in WalMart?

Heres a test you can try.

Imagine a strong socialist movement in Canada.

Do you think another socialist country like say China attacking Canada would strengthen the socialist movement here?

Ya thought so!

So what makes you think it would work in Iran?

And what always kills me about these crazy ideas is that you are not thinking about what an "attack" means!

You would be literally killing people because you "think" it may be the right thing to do.What if your wrong?

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

You need to look at things in the long term. If you had access to cheap resources and had some in reserves, wouldn't you use the foreign resources first and then use yours. Especially if the resources you have access to come from potentially hostile sources. E great game continues...

How is spending billions or trillions of dollars in causing destruction and jeopardizing the world supply of oil causing the price to skyrocket in any way good for the long term?

If this was the case then the American economy would be doing well after Iraq.

You must have a real bad memory or think we do.

WWWTT

[blueblood]

How is spending billions or trillions of dollars in causing destruction and jeopardizing the world supply of oil causing the price to skyrocket in any way good for the long term?

If this was the case then the American economy would be doing well after Iraq.

You must have a real bad memory or think we do.

WWWTT

If your the worlds largest supplier of grain and have plentiful oil, gas, nuclear, hydro reserves, and have the most innovative environment in the world, depleting a threats resources is good in the long term. What's the middle east without oil?

This is a very long term strategy.

They're spending trillions now to get trillions in the future. Some ROI takes longer than others.

[GostHacked]

How’d they get screwed? Don’t they get the choice now to run the country the way they best see fit? As for the war that “only benefits corporations”, are you suggesting a strong economy is not in all Canadian’s interest?

They had a strong economy. Libya was making a lot of money selling it's oil. Those profits went back into the country in terms of infrastructure, (free health care, free education).

They also had a large gold reserve, handed over to these unknown (and reports of Al-Queda among them) "rebels".

Would you rather a society in Canada, with low unemployment, a decent standard of living for most, tax revenue to pay for social programs coming out the whazoo, all for the expense of bumping off a dictator now and then on the other side of the planet?

Now how does taking out Gadhafi allow that to happen in Canada? Now that he is gone, life in Canada will get better? How so?

How did taking out Saddam improve our way of live here in Canada?

How did taking out the Taliban improve our way of life here in Canada?

We are fighting a war on terror, all while increasing security measures at home and increasing the scope of the war abroad, when neither make us safe. And we have the government telling us we need to be scared of these people because they want to supposedly kill us.

Why have we not gone into Syria?

Why have we not gone into North Korea?

Why have we not gone into many other places on the planet that really need attention?

Not to mention Gadhafi was in power for a few decades. If he was that much of a threat, why was he not taken out decades ago? What is the reason that he was taken out now?

[GostHacked]

Coulda swore that Daffy was killed by a fellow Libyan. But, GH says it was a Canadian...so must be true.

Where did I say that the person who killed Gadhafi was a Canadian? Nowhere.

[Wild Bill]

Heres a test you can try.

Imagine a strong socialist movement in Canada.

Do you think another socialist country like say China attacking Canada would strengthen the socialist movement here?

Ya thought so!

So what makes you think it would work in Iran?

And what always kills me about these crazy ideas is that you are not thinking about what an "attack" means!

You would be literally killing people because you "think" it may be the right thing to do.What if your wrong?

WWWTT

You're mixing models here and ignoring points! An attack on Iran would not be made simply in the hopes of triggering an internal revolution. It would be made to wipe out its ability to make nukes and the missiles to deliver them!

Triggering a revolution would just be a bonus.

Also, it would seem that the younger demographic in Iran wants to be far more like the west than fundamentalist Islamic. I still haven't heard an answer to my question about why we should take it as fact that after an attack Iranians would rally round their ayatollahs! Might they blame the fundamentalists for CAUSING the attack?

As for "literally killing people because you "think" it may be the right thing to do", that makes no sense as an immoral act unless the people doing the killing believed YOUR position that Iran is no threat! If they were sincere then they were acting morally.

If Israel or whoever believes that Iran is a nuclear threat decides to launch a strike, it would be to PREVENT deaths on THEIR side! In Israel's case, one first strike by Iran means total destruction of Israel! It does NOT mean the same for Iran!

After such an act, what should the western powers do? Nuke Iran and kill people who were mostly innocent of the decision to destroy Israel? It's not like the ayatollahs would hold a referendum to get their opinion! Do you seriously think an American president would take such action? Not bloody likely!

So a nuclear counterstrike would be out. A conventional invasion might happen, if the other powers had the stomach and the money for it. Canada would no doubt send some snipers and a canteen boat. Of course, they would be very GOOD and brave snipers, as if that would make any difference.

Some ayatollahs have already been quoted as saying that such a scenario would be worth it! Iran would no doubt suffer some death and damage but eventually would recover. Israel would be a radioactive wasteland for hundreds of years.

Some Palestinians who live close by would no doubt also be killed but why should Iran care? They've never cared before! It's always a cheap price to have SOMEONE ELSE be the sacrifice!

Sadly, I think Israel has been backed into a corner and has no choice but to launch a strike SOON! They have good reason to fear for their very existence! Any "school teacher" opinions about turning the other cheek are frankly illogical if not suicidal, in my opinion!

Edited November 14, 2011 by Wild Bill

[DogOnPorch]

Where did I say that the person who killed Gadhafi was a Canadian? Nowhere.

GH: So killing people bombing a country killing their leader all for the oil is protecting our national interests? I fail to see how this protects our interests.

Sure you did.

[GostHacked]

GH: So killing people bombing a country killing their leader all for the oil is protecting our national interests? I fail to see how this protects our interests.

Sure you did.

No where did I say that a Canadian killed Gadhafi. We all know a Canadian did not kill him. Try again troll.

[Guest Derek L]

They had a strong economy. Libya was making a lot of money selling it's oil. Those profits went back into the country in terms of infrastructure, (free health care, free education).

They also had a large gold reserve, handed over to these unknown (and reports of Al-Queda among them) "rebels".

You’re suggesting things were better under Daffy?

Now how does taking out Gadhafi allow that to happen in Canada? Now that he is gone, life in Canada will get better? How so?

How did taking out Saddam improve our way of live here in Canada?

How did taking out the Taliban improve our way of life here in Canada?

We are fighting a war on terror, all while increasing security measures at home and increasing the scope of the war abroad, when neither make us safe. And we have the government telling us we need to be scared of these people because they want to supposedly kill us.

Why have we not gone into Syria?

Why have we not gone into North Korea?

Why have we not gone into many other places on the planet that really need attention?

Not to mention Gadhafi was in power for a few decades. If he was that much of a threat, why was he not taken out decades ago? What is the reason that he was taken out now?

We’ve had numerous threads on this topic we’re I’ve explained it clearly……….Readers Digest……..Middle Eastern Despot sitting on lakes of oil……Can’t get it out of the ground effectively…..The “West”, whom requires Oil, is allowed to develop said oil for said despot………Said despot throws parade for terrorist that killed Westerners…….West tells despot we don’t like that……Despot tells West he’ll nationalize their investment……..Despot starts killing protestors in the streets………West says stop…….Despot say shove it……..West helps topple despot, rebels take over, West resumes oil production………

[WWWTT]

If your the worlds largest supplier of grain and have plentiful oil, gas, nuclear, hydro reserves, and have the most innovative environment in the world, depleting a threats resources is good in the long term. What's the middle east without oil?

This is a very long term strategy.

They're spending trillions now to get trillions in the future. Some ROI takes longer than others.

You know what if you feel so strong about this then why don't you put your money where your mouth is!

Join the military and volunteer for the real action or donate 50% of all your money to the military.

Oh by the way I don't see China invading countries with their military,I wonder how their economy is doing?

Oh ya I forgot their freekin kickin our butts!Explain that one!

WWWTT

[blueblood]

You know what if you feel so strong about this then why don't you put your money where your mouth is!

Join the military and volunteer for the real action or donate 50% of all your money to the military.

Oh by the way I don't see China invading countries with their military,I wonder how their economy is doing?

Oh ya I forgot their freekin kickin our butts!Explain that one!

WWWTT

Too old.

Do you know how an economy works? The military is better off if private industry does more business than giving it to the gov't.

China did invade countries with theirs and they got tore to ribbons, that's why they stay home. China's economy is doing good because they are having their industrial revolution, the same one that Britain and the USA had and with the same results. It's what happens when peasants get into the middle class.