Former Penn State football coach charged with sex crimes

[bush_cheney2004]

You close it down to send a message to management that if you hire perverts, you will pay the ultimate price plus tax. Buckley's tastes bad but it works. And the death penalty isn't canceling the program.

This is really not an NCAA enforcement matter...it is criminal. The NCAA has no legal jurisdiction. Yes, it could sanction the school after convictions are handed down, but they really don't want any part of this affair or be a named party in the lawsuits that are surely coming.

Edited November 10, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Boges]

Man if the NCAA could punish team for morality issues then the entire SEC would have to fold.

Players on teams in that conference frequently run into trouble with the laws.

The NCAA rules on infractions involved with paying or rewarding players, not indifference involving an assistant coach's criminal behaviour.

[blueblood]

Sorry , I cannot agree for various reasons.

FOr starters, those who appear culpable have been pink slipped. There will be more to go soon, including charges and that may involve Joe.

Seniors are graduating and getting drafted. Without the balance of the season, some innocent will miss his shot. Thats blatantly unfair.

NCAA knows this is a billion dollar programme and they share in it. Doubt they want to kill that goose.

The players are betw 18 and 22 yrs old, none of them having anything to do with any of this.

They too will be victimized (by a far less serious action)if they get tossed out on the street.

The players at sum

The players at SMU did not suffer, they went to other colleges. And the death penalty didn't stop it in mid season, it affected the next season.

SMU was an elite program in texas football country. They put the brakes on one goose. The players won't get tossed on the street.

[blueblood]

This is really not an NCAA enforcement matter...it is criminal. The NCAA has no legal jurisdiction. Yes, it could sanction the school after convictions are handed down, but they really don't want any part of this affair or be a named party in the lawsuits that are surely coming.

Im not talking about the NCAA getting involved on the legal side. I'm talking about the side that has the black eye and being taken to the woodshed by the NCAA. I think if a college wants to hire guys like that and defend them, the NCAA should take it's own action on top of the action the authorities are taking.

[Shwa]

This is really not an NCAA enforcement matter...it is criminal. The NCAA has no legal jurisdiction. Yes, it could sanction the school after convictions are handed down, but they really don't want any part of this affair or be a named party in the lawsuits that are surely coming.

It most certainly is an NCAA enforcement matter. They deal with the moral and ethical side of the house and they can investigate and sanction for a break-down of ethics.

2009-2010 DI manual

2.4 THE PRINCIPLE OF SPORTSMANSHIP AND ETHICAL CONDUCT [*]

For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program.(Revised: 1/9/96)

(emphasis is mine)

That is a major NCAA principle that was trampled pretty badly and the NCAA can enforce as severe sanctions as it sees fit.

[Shwa]

Im not talking about the NCAA getting involved on the legal side. I'm talking about the side that has the black eye and being taken to the woodshed by the NCAA. I think if a college wants to hire guys like that and defend them, the NCAA should take it's own action on top of the action the authorities are taking.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Penn State lose their BCS status for this year, just to start.

[blueblood]

Man if the NCAA could punish team for morality issues then the entire SEC would have to fold.

Players on teams in that conference frequently run into trouble with the laws.

The NCAA rules on infractions involved with paying or rewarding players, not indifference involving an assistant coach's criminal behaviour.

From wiki.

In cases of particularly egregious misconduct, a school can also be stripped of its right to vote at NCAA conventions for four years. The severity of the penalty led the media to dub it "the death penalty," and the nickname has persisted to this day.[1] The NCAA still has the power to ban schools from competing in a sport without any preliminary sanctions in cases of particularly serious violations

I think Penn state engaged in particularly egregious misconduct.

[bush_cheney2004]

It most certainly is an NCAA enforcement matter. They deal with the moral and ethical side of the house and they can investigate and sanction for a break-down of ethics.

Then why didn't they do it?

That is a major NCAA principle that was trampled pretty badly and the NCAA can enforce as severe sanctions as it sees fit.

The NCAA has no legal jurisdiction in the matter. Sanctions are enforced all the time for lesser offenses. So what took them so long?

[bush_cheney2004]

Im not talking about the NCAA getting involved on the legal side. I'm talking about the side that has the black eye and being taken to the woodshed by the NCAA. I think if a college wants to hire guys like that and defend them, the NCAA should take it's own action on top of the action the authorities are taking.

Great, but I am certain that the NCAA does not want to be a party to lawsuits, as it has very deep pockets as well. The NCAA hasn't even conducted an investigation yet...what's next..."get a rope"?

[blueblood]

Great, but I am certain that the NCAA does not want to be a party to lawsuits, as it has very deep pockets as well. The NCAA hasn't even conducted an investigation yet...what's next..."get a rope"?

I can imagine one is coming. Death penalties occur from time to time in the NCAA. I don't see why it shouldn't apply here pending the results of the investigation. Programs come and programs go, just ask SMU.

[bush_cheney2004]

I can imagine one is coming. Death penalties occur from time to time in the NCAA. I don't see why it shouldn't apply here pending the results of the investigation. Programs come and programs go, just ask SMU.

We don't even have all the facts yet, and neither does the NCAA. The NCAA is the least of Penn State's problems right now. Recruiting is going to implode just because Joe Pa is gone....many recruits will pull their letters of intent.

[blueblood]

We don't even have all the facts yet, and neither does the NCAA. The NCAA is the least of Penn State's problems right now. Recruiting is going to implode just because Joe Pa is gone....many recruits will pull their letters of intent.

Hope your not a Penn State fan, because it sucks to be them right now. I'm for the NCAA doing their investigation, and slapping down the death penalty based on a potential conviction of those coaches and the cover up. NCAA football was fine with SMU in the tank for 20 years and will be fine with Penn State in the tank.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hope your not a Penn State fan, because it sucks to be them right now. I'm for the NCAA doing their investigation, and slapping down the death penalty based on a potential conviction of those coaches and the cover up. NCAA football was fine with SMU in the tank for 20 years and will be fine with Penn State in the tank.

Too early to say....no NCAA rules infractions or flagrant violations of existing sanctions apply in this case. It's a whole different level that goes beyond the NCAA. The only real driver might be the impact on TV deals and revenue.

And no, I am not a big Penn State fan. Penn State is a well known institution to me because of their Applied Physics labortaory and DoD contracts during the Cold War (underwater acoustics).

Edited November 11, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

Whole lot of fail on so many peoples part. Truly a sad read , so many people had so many chances to crack a baseball bat over Sandusky's head....and didnt. I know...hindsight is 20 20.

Go ahead and read here....but warning you , some of it is stomach churning. Its the pdf of the grand jury....

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/Sandusky.pdf

Whole slew of questions need answering now.

Edited November 10, 2011 by guyser

[blueblood]

Too early to say....no NCAA rules infractions or flagrant violations of existing sanctions apply in this case. It's a whole different level that goes beyond the NCAA. The only real driver might be the impact on TV deals and revenue.

And no, I am not a big Penn State fan. Penn State is a well known institution to me because of their Applied Physics labortaory and DoD contracts during the Cold War (undewater acoustics).

According to shwa's dimanual, it could be argued that they were in violation. Also the NCAA is not a criminal court. That death penalty can come if the NCAA sees fit.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Whole slew of questions need answering now.

Right...there are now more questions than answers. Other 'respected' institutions hid this kind of behaviour for decades.

[Jack Weber]

I suspect that Penn State is about to be sent to the backwater of NCAA football...

Truly sad for Paterno,but he deserves his firing...Just two weeks after passing the great Eddie Robinson for career wins..

That is a legacy completely ruined...

Although the program probably deserves the SMU treatment,the mass firing of the key players may have allowed Penn State to save a little face in the eyes of the NCAA.I suspect we'll see no Bowl activity for at least 5 years,little or no TV coverage which will directly affect commits from kids coming out of high school...That is what will kill the football program and keep it down for a long time.t would seem that Penn State will be battling Minnesota and Indiana for The Big 10 (11,12) Annual Bottom Feeder title...

[Jack Weber]

Man if the NCAA could punish team for morality issues then the entire SEC would have to fold.

Players on teams in that conference frequently run into trouble with the laws.

The NCAA rules on infractions involved with paying or rewarding players, not indifference involving an assistant coach's criminal behaviour.

Probably true...

By the way...

College football scandals and coaches....

Jackie Sherrill anyone?

[dre]

Gee...then you really are advocating that the Roman Catholic Church and the Canadian Government be abolished, because sexual abuse happened on their watch

Well the church shouldnt be abolished but definately most of its leaders should be replaced. From the sheer volume of child raping in the RC Church, and what we know of their policy of sweeping it under the rug, and spiriting child raping priests from one location to another to help hide their crimes it seems clear that this was pretty systemic and a whole lot of people should pay.

[blueblood]

I suspect that Penn State is about to be sent to the backwater of NCAA football...

Truly sad for Paterno,but he deserves his firing...Just two weeks after passing the great Eddie Robinson for career wins..

That is a legacy completely ruined...

Although the program probably deserves the SMU treatment,the mass firing of the key players may have allowed Penn State to save a little face in the eyes of the NCAA.I suspect we'll see no Bowl activity for at least 5 years,little or no TV coverage which will directly affect commits from kids coming out of high school...That is what will kill the football program and keep it down for a long time.t would seem that Penn State will be battling Minnesota and Indiana for The Big 10 (11,12) Annual Bottom Feeder title...

Judging by what happened to SMU, SMU was down for more than 20 years and is still not in the Oklahoma, LSU calibre of NCAA football teams. No bowl activity and no tv in this day and age would be close to the death penalty. The graduating players will be all right, but the freshman, sophomore, and junior players will probably be looking at other schools for next year.

[blueblood]

Well the church shouldnt be abolished but definately most of its leaders should be replaced. From the sheer volume of child raping in the RC Church, and what we know of their policy of sweeping it under the rug, and spiriting child raping priests from one location to another to help hide their crimes it seems clear that this was pretty systemic and a whole lot of people should pay.

Loss of tax exemption, regulations on catholic schools, etc.

[Shady]

Anybody else keeping up with this story? It's gonna be a movie in a few years. So a District Attorney that was investigating possible charges against Sandusky ended up "disappearing" about 5 years ago, with his computer hard drive stripped out of his computer and thrown in the bottom of a lake.

[Jack Weber]

Judging by what happened to SMU, SMU was down for more than 20 years and is still not in the Oklahoma, LSU calibre of NCAA football teams. No bowl activity and no tv in this day and age would be close to the death penalty. The graduating players will be all right, but the freshman, sophomore, and junior players will probably be looking at other schools for next year.

SMU was never really in the calibre of Oklahoma or LSU because the old Southwest Conference was never as strong as the old Big 8 or the SEC...That's not to say it did'nt have some strong schools (Texas,Texas A&M,Arkansas),but,it was basically a Texas conference with Arkansas as an out of state outpost....The only way Southern Methodist ever got to that level (and I vividly remember Ron Meyer's Pony Express backfield)was to essentialy pay players like Craig James and Eric Dickerson money to go to SMU and keep them away from the LSU's and Oklahoma's...

And as I said...If the treatment,exposurewise,is anything near what happened to SMU (or even Texas A&M after Sherrill left),the program is going to be a bottom feeder in the Big 10 for years...5 to 7,at least...Young athelete's will simply go somewhere else...

And I'll bet there are more than a few schools licking thier chops at going into Western PA and cherry picking top high school talent that would have been inclined to go to Penn State...

Edited November 11, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Shwa]

Then why didn't they do it?

When? I am certain they'll have their investigation for a blatant violation of one of their key principles. Heck, have they finished the investigation for Ohio State yet?

The NCAA has no legal jurisdiction in the matter. Sanctions are enforced all the time for lesser offenses. So what took them so long?

Sure they do. If they sanction Penn State, remove their BCS status, etc., it will be completely legal.

[Shwa]

No kidding. Saying what most people are thinking.

Barry Switzer on Penn State scandal: 'Everyone on that staff had to have known'

“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret. Everyone on that had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time,” Switzer said in an interview with The Oklahoman newspaper.

Switzer added that others outside the Penn State program had to have known as well.

“You think that a 13-year assistant ... hasn’t told someone else? His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew,” Switzer said.

Switzer said the tragedy of the situation was that no one stepped up to put a stop to Sandusky.

“There are more people culpable than just Joe Paterno and the athletic director. There are so many other people that have thought, ‘I could’ve done something about this, too’ that didn’t come forward. That’s the tragedy of it,” he said.

I sense that it is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.