Gaddafi has been captured

[Guest American Woman]

Your attempt to revise history to turn him into a saint and his country into utopia speaks for itself.

Go find out what Ghaddafi did in Niger to start with and what he did with the Amazigh.

I won't even waste any more energy. The fact you defend this man and his regime as utopia speaks for itself.

How many wars did he start? What a genius. How about you ask how many terrorists and how many murders did he finance.

You wasted more energy than I was willing to devote to his unbelievable defense of the man and praise of the country under him. I had to reread his post a few times to make sure I was reading it correctly. As I said, unbelievable.

[wyly]

Libya was probably the most advanced country in Africa. Education and literacy rates improved since Gadhafi got to power. People were healthier, people had more opportunities. All that has been destroyed. Schools and hospitals were targets. The profits from the oil went back to the people to help improve their lives. Does this guy sound like a brutal tyrannic dictator?

The real question is, Will Libya be better off after Gadhafi? And that answer will not come that easily in the next decade.

Not only that, how many wars has Libya started during his reign?

yes he did improve the lives of libyans but he also squandered billions libya could have much further ahead, they could have had a standard of living equal to the best european nations...

and he was still a ruthless killer...

I'd rather be poor and free than live in fear for the safety of my family everyday...

[maple_leafs182]

Honestly, I really do not know what kind of man Qaddafi was. I don't think anyone on this site really does, we are all just taking other peoples words for it. Governments and MSM are too good at spinning things in their favour so I really don't trust them.

The thing I don't understand is when people on this site say he was a brutal dictator murderer...what about America and the rest of NATO, why do we turn a blind eye to them when they go around the world bombing people, why is it okay for them to do that and not others. What if Qaddafi told his people what he did was humanitarian, does that make it okay, is that all we have to say now to justify using bombs. This whole claim that this was all done for democracy is clearly bullshit, I don't know how people fall for that or how that is good enough justification to bomb hospitals in Libya.

[Rue]

Oh let's look back at the wonder Moe Ghadaffi legacy and turn him into a socialist martyr shall we:

1-ah yes the 1980s, Moe implemented a "cultural revolution"; say now where have I heard that before? hmmmmm then of course he banned private enterprise and ordered books burned en masse-say now who does that remind me of Adolph? Joseph? Mao?; and ah yes of course he began killing "dissidents", prohibited freedom of speech or political assembly and began arresting people and either torturing or killing them en masse-but hey he was a great man;

2-say now do you remember the public mass trials where he would march people up before kangeroo courts where they would be found guilty of political crimes and killed before the masses? Say now that sounds familiar;

3-Lockerbie? Oh yah remember that? How about the financing of the IRA attacks or bankrolling terrorists on the West Bank, in Gaza, in Lebanon?

4-who Ghaddafi start a war-oh you mean when he went into Niger and wiped out tens of thousands of dark skinned folk he suspected of being against him? No get out Moe a racist against people with dark skin? Oh yah he did fund Sudan's genocide in South Sudan and the Indonesian slaughter in East Timor....hmmm....Moe start wars? Get out.

5-oh but wait the apologists have started-Libya was wonderful-you can get gas for your car at 14cents per litre-what a swell place-say now how is it Moe is personally worth 200 billion-care to explain all his properties world wide and the lavish lifestyle of his two wives and children? Oh it was a great country-that's why unemployment was 30%-say now 6 million people, 32 billion a year generated from oil, and 30% unemployment-yah sounds like a socialist state to me.

6-he has an Amazigh record or did I mean amazing record, no I meant Amazigh-oh do see how he treated such people will you?

7-ah those Revolutionary Commitees of his, they made life just swell for Libyans;

8-who Ghaddafi start a war did I say Niger? You do remember Chad as well don't you?

9-say now Amnesty Intl. says he killed 25 political opponents outside the country between 1980 and 1987, who Moe? Yah Moe.

10-yah yah it was a great country... I mean come on, I just loved his "purification laws" that came into being in 1994..oh you remember..a sentence of theft led to amputation of limbs, and fornication and adultery got you flogged-oh go on now guess what happened to gay people can you guess?-but hey these laws were great-they ordered that people must stay virgins until they married.

11- my favourite was in 1971, he wanted to unify with Sudan-Nimiery told him to beat it and suddenly he reached out to the Christians in the South signing a "peace" deal with them-then funded terrorists at the same time who wiped them out. Moe was consistent for sure.

12-psssst about that war in Chad, sometimes called the Toyota war, In 1987, Gaddafi engaged the brilliant Libyan military who thenlost one tenth of its army (7,500 troops) and 1.5 billion dollars worth of military equipment....get out....to a bunch of silly dark skinned savages...imagine that right Moe and you thought all this time your lighter skin made you superior now didn't you Moe...guess not...a bunch of barefoot savages kissed your

pink brown buttox did they....oh do find out the comment she made about dark skinned Africans will you-but he did like the lighter skinned ones.

13-oh but wait let's talk about his support of great African leaders-first his good friend Idi Amin who did have dark skin you know...suddenly this man...was his brother despite the dark skin....in fact he sent troops to protect him when Tanzania invaded-ooopsy the Tanzanians killed 600 Libyan troops. Brilliant soldiers those Libyans. Then he bank rolled

Mengistu Haile Mariam in Ethipia and a massive genocide. Guess who else was his good friend.

Oh come on guess. I will tell you. This leader called himself Emperor for Life and ate human hearts of his enemies. Oh go on guess-jean Bidel Bokassa of the Central African Republic. Now there was a model nation for you.

14-Say now guess who financed the New People's Army of the Communist Party of the Philippines and the Moro Islamic Liberation Fron who both murder, terrorize and kidnap Filippinos oh go one guess. Moe Ghaddafi of course.

15-But hey Moe didn't stop there-he funded anti Muslim Serbian Slobodan Milošević who engaged in war crimes and bak rolled neo Nazi Jörg Haider who raved about Muslims in europe as well.

16-oh but never mind the Pan Am bombing in 1988. My favourite is his autocratic penis. Did you know that according to his personal physician Dr Seham Sergheva that he and some of his sons would rape his hand picked body guards. Quite the lover that Moe which probably explains the syphilis in his brain.

Viva Moe Ghadafi. What a martyr. Oh but I like the new revisionist slant he was killed because he was going to nationalize the oil production. Uh hello-he had years ago.

If Shell or BP wanted oil who the hell do you think they were paying?

Oh but do tell me how wonderful he was and how the West conspired against him.

By the way Mussolini made the trains run on time and so did Hitler and Mao was a great man, so was Stalin and if you say anything bad about Idi Amin or Jean Bidel Bokassa or Moe I will hiss and spit.

Also the US is evil. Its all their fault.

Well I will say this-the West had no problems getting back into bed with him. Tony Blair had no problem on live t.v. performing oral sex on him. I still remember that sight of Mr. Blair fondling him. Don't get me started on the Italian and French.

Now you ask me the best one was Condaleeza Rice who claims he had a crush on her. She refused to meet him in his tent.

Uh Moe, had as much chance as I do with Jodie Foster.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Ya got some links to back that all up Rue? Not that I don't trust you or anything.

[maple_leafs182]

Oh let's look back at the wonder Moe Ghadaffi legacy and turn him into a socialist martyr shall we:

1-ah yes the 1980s, Moe implemented a "cultural revolution"; say now where have I heard that before? hmmmmm then of course he banned private enterprise and ordered books burned en masse-say now who does that remind me of Adolph? Joseph? Mao?; and ah yes of course he began killing "dissidents", prohibited freedom of speech or political assembly and began arresting people and either torturing or killing them en masse-but hey he was a great man;

...

And those are the reasons we bombed Libya and over threw the government. I really don't think those were the reasons we ousted him. It was most likely because he wanted to sell oil for gold. In all my life I have never heard anyone talk about Libya, so I know it wasn't the people of Canada rising up and calling for justice and change in Libya, it was a small elite who wanted change.

I'd rather be poor and free than live in fear for the safety of my family everyday...

That is empty rhetoric, we aren't free in Canada.

[wyly]

That is empty rhetoric, we aren't free in Canada.

oh please!!!

[GostHacked]

oh please!!!

We are subjects of her Majesty. If you are a subject you are not free. Someone I knew coined this some years ago, that we are free slaves. Meaning we are free to chose what kind of slave we are.

[Guest American Woman]

We are subjects of her Majesty. If you are a subject you are not free. Someone I knew coined this some years ago, that we are free slaves. Meaning we are free to chose what kind of slave we are.

Which is why Americans fought for their freedom. We are not anyone's subjects. - "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free.........."

[maple_leafs182]

oh please!!!

But we aren't, both the economy and the people are heavily regulated.

[capricorn]

How about you ask how many terrorists and how many murders did he finance.

Donaldson: Gaddafi death clears way for IRA victims' compensation

The death of ex-Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi paves the way for the settlement of legal claims by IRA victims in the North, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson has said.

In the 1980s the toppled dictator sent large quantities of arms and explosives to Ireland to be used by republicans.

DUP Lagan Valley MP Jeffrey Donaldson said Semtex from the shipments was used during atrocities like the 1993 IRA bombing of Warrington, Merseyside.

“I don’t think anybody will be comforted but there will be widespread relief that this has happened and that we finally see an end to his evil regime,” Mr Donaldson said.

“This now clears the way for what we hope will be the conclusion of our negotiations with the new government to settle the legal claims which have been made by a small number of IRA victims.

“We will be pressing for the establishment of a fund to assist the wider group of victims who suffered as a result of Gaddafi’s sponsorship of the IRA and his arming of the IRA during the earliest years of the troubles.”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/donaldson-gaddafi-death-clears-way-for-ira-victims-compensation-525170.html

The long arm of the Madman of the Middle East and his regime reached far and wide.

[GostHacked]

Which is why Americans fought for their freedom. We are not anyone's subjects. - "I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free.........."

And that is slowly changing for you south of the border as well. So many executive orders and signing statements and things like the PATRIOT Act has changed a good deal of that. That all is now essentially sidelining your constitution. This is why you have the TSA in your airports, in your bus terminals, on the streets of Tennessee, and coming to your malls and sports stadiums.

How many checkpoints does a 'free' person have to go through? How many regulations does a 'free' person have to adhere too.

However this is a problem world wide.

[GostHacked]

And those are the reasons we bombed Libya and over threw the government. I really don't think those were the reasons we ousted him. It was most likely because he wanted to sell oil for gold.

Correct, it was the gold Dinar he wanted to introduce for the oil markets in Africa. Oil would be traded/sold/bought in a gold based currency, and not the US dollar. What happens to the US currency when people use other currencies to trade good in? This war was to prevent that from happening. It does not matter who is in power in Libya, as long as the oil is traded in US dollars, that's the real kicker here.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbaWYdH4cEg

[kactus]

Correct, it was the gold Dinar he wanted to introduce for the oil markets in Africa. Oil would be traded/sold/bought in a gold based currency, and not the US dollar. What happens to the US currency when people use other currencies to trade good in? This war was to prevent that from happening. It does not matter who is in power in Libya, as long as the oil is traded in US dollars, that's the real kicker here.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbaWYdH4cEg

This is what I tried to explain earlier that Gaddafi's ruthless ruling lasted 42 years. Where were we all this time to be their saviour of "freedom" and "democracy" whilst he was killing his own people all this time??

[maple_leafs182]

This is what I tried to explain earlier that Gaddafi's ruthless ruling lasted 42 years. Where were we all this time to be their saviour of "freedom" and "democracy" whilst he was killing his own people all this time??

exactly.

[ToadBrother]

And that is slowly changing for you south of the border as well. So many executive orders and signing statements and things like the PATRIOT Act has changed a good deal of that. That all is now essentially sidelining your constitution. This is why you have the TSA in your airports, in your bus terminals, on the streets of Tennessee, and coming to your malls and sports stadiums.

How many checkpoints does a 'free' person have to go through? How many regulations does a 'free' person have to adhere too.

However this is a problem world wide.

You know people in a certain part of our southern neighbor used to make similar accusations against past Administrations. Some even decided they so disliked what they perceived as the tyrannical leanings of a President that they all got up and tried to leave. In fact, some of the things said President did still, from a strictly constitutional point of view, are cause for debate today.

[Guest American Woman]

This is what I tried to explain earlier that Gaddafi's ruthless ruling lasted 42 years. Where were we all this time to be their saviour of "freedom" and "democracy" whilst he was killing his own people all this time??

The timing was right because the people were rebelling. We helped. We can't be everywhere, saving everyone, obviously. So we do what we can, and it stands to reason that "what we can" is based on what is likely to have the best success/outcome. But let's say we didn't help now - how many more years of ruthless ruling would Libyans have been subjected to? So isn't it good that we helped now? - Why nothing but criticism? At the very least, can't you take a "better late than never" stance?

[ToadBrother]

Correct, it was the gold Dinar he wanted to introduce for the oil markets in Africa. Oil would be traded/sold/bought in a gold based currency, and not the US dollar. What happens to the US currency when people use other currencies to trade good in? This war was to prevent that from happening. It does not matter who is in power in Libya, as long as the oil is traded in US dollars, that's the real kicker here.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbaWYdH4cEg

Gaddafi wanted to do all sorts of mad things. Do you actually think anybody took the guy seriously on this? This was the guy who wanted to lead the way to a pan-African union, even though he had spent at least a part of his four decades in power sowing the seeds of discontent, disunion and militarization in Africa.

I'm absolutely agog at the support that butchering mad dog is getting. You'd think the guy was a bloody saint, leading the charge against the evil tyranny of America. Absolute dosh, as the English would say. He was a murdering self-aggrandizing semi-rational kleptomaniac who had a brief period of rehabilitation in no small part because the Brits and French were so keen to do business with him. In fact, it's precisely because of that rehabilitation that the Brits and French ultimately pushed for his ousting, because they had basically convinced themselves that ol' Colonel Gaddafi had turned over a new leaf and become a veritable man of peace, only to discover that he was still Reagan's mad dog.

How in the hell do you think Gaddafi would have ever convinced anyone else to go over to his currency? The rest of the Arab world loathed the man, so much so that while Ben Ali and his clan were happily given a delightful villa in Saudi Arabi to spend a commodious permanent exile in, no one out in the big wide world was the least bit interested in offering the Gaddafi clan the same terms. The man spent most of his time as ruler of Libya being on the outs with damned near everyone, those that became his friends were soon enough double-crossed. Sure the Arab League made some noises about the rebels and NATO, but do you actually think any of them gave a damn about Gaddafi's safety.

So out of all of this where does your conspiracy theory based on yet more mad mumblings of Colonel Gaddafi even make sense? Who was it in that world of oil producing nations was ever going to sign up for Gaddafi's plan? Give your head a shake.

Edited October 25, 2011 by ToadBrother

[bush_cheney2004]

This is what I tried to explain earlier that Gaddafi's ruthless ruling lasted 42 years. Where were we all this time to be their saviour of "freedom" and "democracy" whilst he was killing his own people all this time??

Gee...what part of FB-111 attacks in 1986 don't you understand?

[kactus]

Gee...what part of FB-111 attacks in 1986 don't you understand?

The attack was for his role in terrorist bombing not the fact that he has been killing/ torturing his own people for 42 years.

[kactus]

The timing was right because the people were rebelling. We helped. We can't be everywhere, saving everyone, obviously. So we do what we can, and it stands to reason that "what we can" is based on what is likely to have the best success/outcome. But let's say we didn't help now - how many more years of ruthless ruling would Libyans have been subjected to? So isn't it good that we helped now? - Why nothing but criticism? At the very least, can't you take a "better late than never" stance?

The best success/ outcome here seems to be the fact that the "mad dog" of the oil rich Lybia had reached his expiry date of 42 years of ruthless ruling when he decided to introduce a different currency for oil markets and west decided to liberate Lybia under pretext of democracy. Heck we could have liberated mad Mugabe in Zimbabwe but that wouldn't have given us the best outcome. Would it?

[ToadBrother]

The best success/ outcome here seems to be the fact that the "mad dog" of the oil rich Lybia had reached his expiry date of 42 years of ruthless ruling when he decided to introduce a different currency for oil markets and west decided to liberate Lybia under pretext of democracy. Heck we could have liberated mad Mugabe in Zimbabwe but that wouldn't have given us the best outcome. Would it?

This conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense. Who exactly was going to go along with Gaddafi? His only ally of any stature in among the oil-producing nations was Chavez, and considering how important the American market still remains to Venezuela, I doubt very much there was going to be moving in that direction.

It's unbelievable that people are suddenly taking Gaddafi's wild-ass announcements and declarations seriously. This was a guy that a decade ago was proclaiming he was going to unite Africa. He had a big mouth and propensity to say all sorts of idiotic things.

[GostHacked]

This conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense. Who exactly was going to go along with Gaddafi? His only ally of any stature in among the oil-producing nations was Chavez, and considering how important the American market still remains to Venezuela, I doubt very much there was going to be moving in that direction.

Because when you are trying to do it, you get your country bombed to shit. Iraq and Libya are prime examples of this.

It's unbelievable that people are suddenly taking Gaddafi's wild-ass announcements and declarations seriously. This was a guy that a decade ago was proclaiming he was going to unite Africa. He had a big mouth and propensity to say all sorts of idiotic things.

How is that different from taking at face value everything our media puts forth about him? And the African Union is already in place for the most part.

But do tyrants give the oil profits back to the people? Does a tyrant give his people free education where the literacy rate went up more than 50%? Does a tyrant give free health care to all the people of the land?

Why would Libya not be allowed to trade oil with gold? What is the benefit of keeping this oil all traded in the US dollar? All it takes is a couple countries to ditch the US currency to trade oil in other currencies to get the ball rolling. Once that is done you will fine many countries ditching the US dollar to trade oil in other currencies. That does not benefit the USA one bit, in fact it puts them in a really bad situation where they have to buy back all that currency that countries use to trade oil.

Essentially it would help bring about the collapse of the US dollar currency, and the country itself.

Follow the money.

[ToadBrother]

Because when you are trying to do it, you get your country bombed to shit. Iraq and Libya are prime examples of this.

How is that different from taking at face value everything our media puts forth about him? And the African Union is already in place for the most part.

But do tyrants give the oil profits back to the people? Does a tyrant give his people free education where the literacy rate went up more than 50%? Does a tyrant give free health care to all the people of the land?

Why would Libya not be allowed to trade oil with gold? What is the benefit of keeping this oil all traded in the US dollar? All it takes is a couple countries to ditch the US currency to trade oil in other currencies to get the ball rolling. Once that is done you will fine many countries ditching the US dollar to trade oil in other currencies. That does not benefit the USA one bit, in fact it puts them in a really bad situation where they have to buy back all that currency that countries use to trade oil.

Essentially it would help bring about the collapse of the US dollar currency, and the country itself.

Follow the money.

I'm trying to follow the logic of anyone taking this lunatic's grand pronouncements seriously. He wasn't going to change the currency that oil was sold in. It's absolute fantasy.

I'm sorry, your conspiracy theory is B.S. Gaddafi neither had the influence nor the friends to pull it off. He was pretty much universally hated throughout the rest of the Arab world. There's no way major oil producers like the Saudis were ever going to get on board with his plan. The Saudis wouldn't have crossed the street to urinate on him if he had been on fire, and now you're saying he was going to single-handedly alter the way oil was sold on the world market? Give your head shake.

Edited October 26, 2011 by ToadBrother

[olp1fan]

Gadhaffi was switching to gold dinars and dumping the green back. that is the only reason we interfered

same with saddam

Edited October 26, 2011 by olp1fan