OCCUPY

[olp1fan]

The thread you have provided the link for is under US/Canada relations.

I had stated that I was suprised that nobody started a similar thread under Canada federal politics.

Sometimes I am carefull about what I say.Sometimes

WWWTT

why? theres maybe a thousand people protesting

the rest of us have lives

[WWWTT]

why? theres maybe a thousand people protesting

the rest of us have lives

I do not understand this comment you are making,please clarify.

Thanx

WWWTT

[g_bambino]

OCCUPY is a protest about several issues revolving around the status given to large corporations...

And much more - 9/11 conspiracies, communism, anarchism, Aboriginal sovereignty, Westminster parliamentary democracy, war, etc., etc. - that drowns out any coherent, rational message. Those who marched for women's right to vote had a clear message: Give women the vote.

[WWWTT]

And much more - 9/11 conspiracies, communism, anarchism, Aboriginal sovereignty, Westminster parliamentary democracy, war, etc., etc. - that drowns out any coherent, rational message. Those who marched for women's right to vote had a clear message: Give women the vote.

This is new to me,can you provide a site please?

Thank you

WWWTT

[g_bambino]

can you provide a site please?

A site for what? A tent?

[WWWTT]

A site for what? A tent?

A site for what you are claiming this OCCUPY protest is about.

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

You mean cite, as in citation.

[cybercoma]

Cite is a verb, btw. Citation is the thing that you're looking for.

[WWWTT]

You mean cite, as in citation.

Yes thankyou for the correction coma

Cite please g_bambino.

Thankyou

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

You mean cite, as in citation.

Wait a second,I think my reference was to a website.

That would be right to say aswell too no?

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

Wait a second,I think my reference was to a website.

That would be right to say aswell too no?

WWWTT

Not really. I'm not trying to be fussy. Bambino was making a joke at your expense with the tent comment. You could be asking specifically for a website to backup the information: can you provide a site? In that sense it would still be correct, but I believe what you actually mean is some sort of reference: can you provide a citation? or can you cite a source? Since we're conversing on the net, I suppose it could be correct that you're asking for a site. However, the website as a whole isn't really what you're looking for; you're looking for the source on the site or some kind of document. That would be a citation, rather than a site.

[cybercoma]

I understand what you're saying though. "Can you provide a link?" may have been clearer.

[jacee]

Really?!?!

Well according to your line of thinking women,natives and pretty much anyone who isn't rich still would not be able to vote in Canada!

All of these injustises have been corrected via the actions of public protest!

I would never be so quick to diminish the merit or value public protest has contributed to our western democracy!

Actually to be against public protest is to be against our society!

WWWTT

Really good point, WWWTT.

In fact an ancester of mine chained herself to the Manitoba legislature and helped gain the vote for women.

These are things kids learn in public schools, about the struggles of ordinary Canadians for equal opportunity.

I wonder whether they teach the value of struggle and protest in private schools for the wealthy, or teach from an entirely different perspective of the struggle of 'aristocrats' to keep control of the reins of power?

Don't know, but it's food for thought.

Certainly the wealthy and powerful still seem to have the attitude that the working people are entitled only to whatever scraps they are inclined to throw them, whenever the mood strikes them.

[Guest Derek L]

Your "basic math" works because you have framed the question simplistically and ignored quite a few factors, among them the multi-national nature of many of the corporations which tap the wealth of Canada.

The biggest problem is that you are taking the concept of the 1% literally and by doing so, hope to show that it doesn't apply in Canada. But it is only a matter of degrees and the 1/99% is a symbol for the spreading income gaps in Canada, which is worse that in the US apparently.

From Sept: Income inequality rising quickly in Canada

From 2008: Income gaps grow, as Canada's have-nots get left behind

Perhaps we need to define what the question truly is first………You mention corporations, well I’m using numbers related to the actual protestors numbers……….It appears we’re discussing two separate entities………I don’t doubt that some Canadians, and I won’t even hazard a guess as to what percent, are dissatisfied with their current economic plight and or with the disparity between different economic classes……….But isn’t this a “fluid number”………Are their not “rich” Canadians that support the goals of the protestors, just as there are “poor” people that are ardent capitalists………and the majority with opinions varying in-between.

What I’m trying to illustrate is that the protestors cause is futile……..You are entrenched in your political views just as much as I am…….we could go on with pages of points and counterpoints and make zero headway in convincing each other that the others system is flawed…….In my view, winning in politics is convincing the monolithic undecided to vote for a specific cause.

Now we need to define what the “undecided” is……..I’m of the opinion that the truly centrist, undecided is fiscally conservative and socially liberal (Both small c & l)………And I’m of the opinion, that the protestors current tract, like the Tea Party in the States, comes across as “aggressive”, “annoying” and to some extent “condescending” towards the Apolitical center………And will do more to hurt their cause, regardless of merit, than help it.

No one, well practically no one, is denying that people should not be rewarded for their work, or be highly paid for a job well done or that people should have nice things. However, you must admit that when we are constanly being bombarded with constant messages about austerity, cutbacks, poor economic performance, a worsening recession, you might well understand that those poor, who are getting poorer, are eventually going to speak up especially when they see bullshit like the police suppression at the G20, perceive that the rules are constantly being tilted toward the rich, government spending scandals, and so on.

As I’ve stated, it doesn’t really mater what you or I think (or the protestors), but what the undecided think.

[Guest Derek L]

Let's use some basic math here.

Your post makes 0% sense.

Prove it wrong.......

[Guest Derek L]

Read your own post. There is no viable third option. If you read some of the commentary from the original Tea Party supporters, it's clear that it didn't graft itself onto the GOP, so much as it was co-opted by the GOP and became something that it was not.

Is that really the case though? Nobody forced the Tea Party to join with the GOP as opposed to running as a third party, they just chose to join with a more electable, established party.

[cybercoma]

Prove it wrong.......

You expect 99% of Canadians to be out there protesting?

[bush_cheney2004]

You expect 99% of Canadians to be out there protesting?

You can't point to even 1%.

[Guest Derek L]

Really?!?!

Well according to your line of thinking women,natives and pretty much anyone who isn't rich still would not be able to vote in Canada!

All of these injustises have been corrected via the actions of public protest!

I would never be so quick to diminish the merit or value public protest has contributed to our western democracy!

Actually to be against public protest is to be against our society!

WWWTT

You’re completely wrong, unlike the causes you mentioned, these protestors do have the right to vote…….Again, I’m not opposed to their right to protest, I just question it’s effectiveness.

[Guest Derek L]

You expect 99% of Canadians to be out there protesting?

How about just 1%

[bush_cheney2004]

How about just 1%

How about just 0.5% ?

Edited October 19, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest Derek L]

How about just 0.5% ?

Here in "progressive" Vancouver it stands around 0.0001%.........And it's been rather nice and sunny out

[g_bambino]

A site for what you are claiming this OCCUPY protest is about.

Oh, a cite... That's an odd request, given that I said these "occupy" protests are being made to be about everything all at once and nothing in particular. The best I can do is provide a sample of the numerous people who've said the same thing: the movement's message is incoherent.

Unfortunately for Occupy Toronto... A minority of the people there are doing most of the talking, and that's not good news for the movement. One gentleman rambled semi-coherently about the fractional banking system, but whenever challenged on a point of fact or logic, would bristle and say he wasn't there to debate the issues. Another wanted an end to currency, period. He didn't have anything to say beyond that. There were the usual bevy of 9/11 Truthers about, and in one sad case, a clearly troubled young man was desperate to tell me about the ongoing alien infiltration and the imminent invasion of the Earth...

Inside Occupy Toronto: 'Mostly harmless,' except to their cause

"(They) didn't have an axe to grind, didn't have a particular ideology to talk about," Rae said...

London, Ont., Tory MP Joe Preston said the "Occupy" protesters are incoherent.

"I know there was like 12 or 15 in London this weekend and I don't think any one of them agreed with each other," he said.

Even the NDP's Nash admits the protesters don't have a coherent call to action.

"I haven't heard a clearly formulated policy prescription," she said...

'Occupy' protesters embraced by federal opposition parties

John Manley, president and CEO of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, representing over 100 top Canadian CEOs, called the one per cent versus 99 per cent argument "ridiculous."

"The message that I take [from the Occupy movement] is that in Canada it's not that big, not to say that it can't grow, but the messages are pretty hard to decipher. It's fairly incoherent."

Occupy Canada protests persist as work week begins

From animal rights, to environment, to student debt, to corporate greed, the more than 1,000 Occupy Toronto protesters who took to the streets were as varied as their messages...

Holding signs with slogans including "We've got 99 problems and the rich got none," or "Hold corporations accountable for negative externalities" and "We can change this world," the crowd grew beneath the head offices of Canada's major banks...

Whitney said he was there, in large part, for his daughter, who he fears will have a tougher life than he has... "I'm worried that by the time she grows up there will be no public education, no health-care system," he said...

Many people held CUPE signs. Some wore union jackets.

David, who did not want to give his last name, shook a rattle and sang what he called "the bear song," an Ojibway chat that represents courage.

"I'm marching because of the total disrespect for all living things," he said. "There is too much destruction."

Despite all the chanting and signs, the protesters still didn't have a central message.

Much as was the case in Toronto, the loud collective voice of the occupy movement did not have a cohesive set of ideas or an action plan...

Bringing attention to the issues is key, Samantha McGavin of social justice group InterPares, told iPolitics. The fact that people have a venue and space to speak out is important, she said, adding that the idea was to promote values and ideas, not just specific claims... "The majority of Canadians did not vote for the government and it's the government that continues to perpetuate this inequality, and we're here together to make decisions to change that," she said.

Occupy protesters speak out... though central message still unclear

[T]he criticisms were vague and derivative.

During a session with one small group that graciously allowed me to listen in, the most coherent complaint had little to do with Canada. Rather, it was levelled against the U.S. Federal Reserve, that country's central bank.

Indeed, most of the language of the Toronto protest appears to have been imported verbatim from the far more famous demonstration on New York's Wall St.

Thus bailouts were condemned. But which ones? Unlike, the U.S., Canada didn't bail out its banks. It did, however, help bail out auto giants GM and Chrysler.

Do the protesters object to that? If so, they are probably offside with 99 per cent of Ontario's autoworkers, who were happy to see their jobs saved.

Occupy Toronto opposes corporate greed. But what does that mean? Do those in the 99 per cent whose pensions are invested in corporate equities think it greedy when stock prices rise?...

With luck, the Occupy Toronto protesters will eventually coalesce around a series of concrete aims.

But first they have to address reality as it is — in this city, in this province, in this country. We are much affected by the U.S. But its situation is not ours.

It's polite, but Toronto protest lacks Canadian content

It's all over the place.

[+]

Edited October 19, 2011 by g_bambino

[cybercoma]

Kevin O'Leary and Chris Hedges debating Occupy Wall Street.

CBC issued an apology for Kevin's statements on Oct. 18, 2011.

[blueblood]

Kevin O'Leary and Chris Hedges debating Occupy Wall Street.

CBC issued an apology for Kevin's statements on Oct. 18, 2011.

Hmm, Chris Hedges spouting tin foil hat nonsense and uncle kevin letting him hang himself. That was a gem, thank you!!!

I was waiting for the tongue lashing and it never happened. If that's offensive, hedges needs to see a shrink