bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 That's true and I certainly wasn't implying otherwise, but there is a pathway to self-destruction, primarily through crazy spending, which America embarked on long ago. Mind you, America isn't alone, Canada is probably ahead of the curve in some ways. I just don't see any reason to be optimistic about broad issues in the long-term. I think that the West is finished, and I think this is a consequence of the ever growing influence of leftist politics. I think you are mistaken, and discount far worse circumstances that the US and "west" have overcome. I do think that some Canadians place false hope in there mistaken understanding of what the US is and always has been. The US is not required to live up to Canadian expectations, expectations that they themselves cannot meet. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 He magically remade himself into some new man after his pathetic run for the nomination in 2008. How so? Here's a "front-runner", Michelle Bachmann Michelle Bachmann isn't a front runner. She's polling at 3%. How does that make her a leading candidate? Maybe a couple of months ago, but you're way behind on the latest goings on. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 The US is not required to live up to Canadian expectations, expectations that they themselves cannot meet. I agree, and not just in regards to Canada. As I said previously, I grow weary of foreigners always judging our POTUS more harshly than their own leaders/candidates - and it particularly irked me when I was abroad before the Bush-Kerry election (could the Dems have picked a worse candidate??) and Brits would exclaim disbelief when I said I thought Bush would be re-elected - and I'd ask them who they think would win their election, and of course they replied Blair. I always asked - what's the difference, then?? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 ...Without commenting on your observations re: your politicians, I didn't mean to imply that it makes me feel better that I don't see better leaders/choices elsewhere; I pointed it out because I grow weary of hearing from foreigners how terrible our choices/leaders are - as if the U.S. stands alone in that regard. Agreed...another US election cycle is upon us, and we will get the usual wannabe behaviours and criticisms no matter who is nominated for each party or... ultimately...president. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 ...Michelle Bachmann isn't a front runner. She's polling at 3%. How does that make her a leading candidate? Maybe a couple of months ago, but you're way behind on the latest goings on. 100% correct....Bachmann will fade away even if she polls well in Iowa. She is an evangelical/Tea Party stalwart with limited broad appeal in a nation party nomination process. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bob Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 How so? Did you not follow the campaigns in 2007 and 2008 for the Republican nomination? Romney was tripping all over himself in contradictions, flip-flopping, dodging questions, and just plain being a fish out of water. He's much more confident this time around, which reveals that he is a man without principle. He needed to be trained to campaign. That's pathetic. It's just like Hudak. McGuinty did the same. Michelle Bachmann isn't a front runner. She's polling at 3%. How does that make her a leading candidate? Maybe a couple of months ago, but you're way behind on the latest goings on. Fine, who else do you want to talk about? Did you see Rick Perry in the recent CNN debate, when after being directly accused of corruption by Bachmann, he said something to the effect of, "I take offense to that"? It was so, so, so weak and so pathetic. What kind of man allows some dumb bitch to publicly accuse him of stealing taxpayer money, blatantly slandering him, and he doesn't defend himself? This is a potential future leader of the USA? I found it just now, actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIC_vc8YOj4 Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
Bob Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I think you are mistaken, and discount far worse circumstances that the US and "west" have overcome. I do think that some Canadians place false hope in there mistaken understanding of what the US is and always has been. The US is not required to live up to Canadian expectations, expectations that they themselves cannot meet. I think the West, most notably and importantly the USA, is finished unless we can make some major changes in our political cultures. I admire the USA greatly, but I see it succumbing (and this has been going on for decades, obviously) to the very things that are slowly destroying the rest of the Western world. Spending itself into oblivion, short-term politics, illegal immigration of Mexican trash for decades, wars that should've been won within weeks still dragging on from 2001 and 2003, increasing spread of leftist politics domestically, etc... I hope I'm wrong, but I think as time goes on we'll continue to see the self-destruction of the West. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) .... Spending itself into oblivion, short-term politics, illegal immigration of Mexican trash for decades, wars that should've been won within weeks still dragging on from 2001 and 2003, increasing spread of leftist politics domestically, etc... Sorry, but you have gone off the rails here. The US is distinctly different from Canada in historical diversity and scale. "Mexican trash" has contributed to America just as much and probably more than Canada. The southwestern United States use to be part of...Mexico. I hope I'm wrong, but I think as time goes on we'll continue to see the self-destruction of the West. No matter what happens, I think you are most certainly wrong in pinning your hopes for the "west" mostly on the fortunes of the United States. Remember, the US founded was by violently rejecting the political systems of Europe...and by extension...Canada. The US will do things the hard way if necessary, just as it always has. Edited October 10, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bob Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 Sorry, but you have gone off the rails here. The US is distinctly different from Canada in historical diversity and scale. "Mexican trash" has contributed to America just as much and probably more than Canada. The southwestern United States use to be part of...Mexico. Well, if it wasn't clear who I was referring to earlier allow me to clarify now - I am referring to illegal immigrants from Mexico. They are certainly, overwhelmingly, Mexican trash. It isn't Mexican physician, physicists, and computer engineers crossing the border into Arizona and Texas at three in the morning. It's trash. And it's costing America a lot of money. I sure hope you're not characterizing illegal immigration as some sort of net asset to the American economy. No matter what happens, I think you are most certainly wrong in pinning your hopes for the "west" mostly on the fortunes of the United States. Remember, the US founded was by violently rejecting the political systems of Europe...and by extension...Canada. The US will do things the hard way if necessary, just as it always has. We'll see, of course. But I highly doubt America will be able to turn inwards and insulate itself from the self-destruction of the West. The current barometers leave no reason for anyone to be optimistic with America's long-term future if the status quo of massive spending continues. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) .... It's trash. And it's costing America a lot of money. I sure hope you're not characterizing illegal immigration as some sort of net asset to the American economy. No more than I would characterize illegal Canadian emigres as "trash"...illegal immigrants do contribute to the American economy in ways that may escape your observation. "Net" asset, perhaps not, but certainly not a total expense. We'll see, of course. But I highly doubt America will be able to turn inwards and insulate itself from the self-destruction of the West. The current barometers leave no reason for anyone to be optimistic with America's long-term future if the status quo of massive spending continues. America will just have to learn to live with less...it has done so before. It is in a very strong position from which to adjust, unlike other nations that never attained such economic or geopolitical success. As I have said before, the worse case scenario for America is that it becomes another former "empire" like Britain, France, or Spain. Canada is/was part of a fallen empire...is life so bad there? Edited October 10, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bob Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 No more than I would characterize illegal Canadian emigres as "trash"...illegal immigrants do contribute to the American economy in ways that may escape your observation. "Net" asset, perhaps not, but certainly not a total expense. Illegal Canadian immigrants in America are also more than likely to be trash - why else would they do it illegally? The thing is however, it's not twenty-plus million Canadian illegals named Miguel running around in southern border states that are putting the squeeze on the already struggling social infrastructure. I think all illegal immigration needs to be dealt with aggressively, but when we look at illegal immigration as a whole, your biggest problems are from Canada. I also used the term "net asset" intentionally. Yes, of course illegal immigration brings some benefits to some people, but broadly speaking it is an economic disaster, and it's only getting worse. Consider that this ridiculous "Dream Act" will now offer scholarships and other financial aid to illegal immigrant students in California. There are massive and well-organized interest groups in the USA that advocate for self-destructive policies such as this. Of course, we have the same trash in Canada, but I always like to think of America as having the strongest social immune system to such self-destructive politics. America will just have to learn to live with less...it has done so before. It is in a very strong position from which to adjust, unlike other nations that never attained such economic or geopolitical success. As I have said before, the worse case scenario for America is that it becomes another former "empire" like Britain, France, or Spain. Canada is/was part of a fallen empire...is life so bad there? I don't think we'll see the low-point of this self-destruction in our lifetimes, but it's happening. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 ... I think all illegal immigration needs to be dealt with aggressively, but when we look at illegal immigration as a whole, your biggest problems are from Canada. From Canada? Probably not! I also used the term "net asset" intentionally. Yes, of course illegal immigration brings some benefits to some people, but broadly speaking it is an economic disaster, and it's only getting worse. Consider that this ridiculous "Dream Act" will now offer scholarships and other financial aid to illegal immigrant students in California. There are massive and well-organized interest groups in the USA that advocate for self-destructive policies such as this. Of course, we have the same trash in Canada, but I always like to think of America as having the strongest social immune system to such self-destructive politics. Again, this is where you fail to understand the history of the United States, massive immigrations, even slavery on a scale that contributed to the differences in population. The US is not afraid of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Some members here will crow about Canada's per-capita immigration....too little...too late. I don't think we'll see the low-point of this self-destruction in our lifetimes, but it's happening. Doesn't bother me in the least...but apparently it's scaring you big time. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 Who should be US president? Whomever American voters choose, as provided for in their Constitution.More like, womever American voters choose, as provided for by the highest bidders. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 More like, womever American voters choose, as provided for by the highest bidders. That's how we do it...you gotta problem wit dat? You want we should go back to kissing some monarch's ass? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 it is oratory, connections, and skilled deception that enables politicians to succeed. And money.... lots and lots of money. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 That's how we do it...you gotta problem wit dat? You want we should go back to kissing some monarch's ass? You told me not to get involved in a discussion about "shoulds"... now you want me to get into a discussion about "shoulds". Make up your mind. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 Seriously though... not a hell of a lot of difference between a monarch and the corporate monarchy you have now. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 You told me not to get involved in a discussion about "shoulds"... now you want me to get into a discussion about "shoulds". Make up your mind. Since when whatever I've said has ever stopped you from doing so? C'mon...this boat has sailed...tell America how to run the show from "perfect" Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 The state of federal politics in both the US and Canada is pretty grim, for different reasons, but it results in a deficit of good leadership candidates in both countries and problems in democratic governance. Any person smart enough to be a great leader of the US or Canada would also be smart enough not to get mixed up in nonsense of federal politics. I'm sure they're content to kick ass & be rich in the private sector. It's so much tougher these days to be in the political limelight given the digital age of instant news we live in. Also, the systems are stacked against any honest person wishing to be POTUS or PM. Wouldn't it be great to be able to truly get behind a leader you trusted and believed in? Who could actually lead? I've seen glimmers of these types of people but they are usually fringe candidates with not much hope of winning, or have other flaws like age. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Sir Bandelot Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 I kinda like Bachmann. Better looking than Palin. Quote
Jack Weber Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 The state of federal politics in both the US and Canada is pretty grim, for different reasons, but it results in a deficit of good leadership candidates in both countries and problems in democratic governance. Any person smart enough to be a great leader of the US or Canada would also be smart enough not to get mixed up in nonsense of federal politics. I'm sure they're content to kick ass & be rich in the private sector. It's so much tougher these days to be in the political limelight given the digital age of instant news we live in. Also, the systems are stacked against any honest person wishing to be POTUS or PM. Wouldn't it be great to be able to truly get behind a leader you trusted and believed in? Who could actually lead? I've seen glimmers of these types of people but they are usually fringe candidates with not much hope of winning, or have other flaws like age. I agree... And it leads to another,rather scary deficit...In the Ontario provincial election last week we had,for the first time,less than 50% of the eligible population even take the time to vote... The deficit of apathy is a serious symptom of these milquetoast "leaders"...And one has to wonder about the state of democracy when less than half of a given population can't be bothered to excercise their blood bought democratic franchise... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Bob Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 More like, womever American voters choose, as provided for by the highest bidders. That's just another mythology of the left. Money follows political success, not the other way around. Leftists think wealth determines elections, without realizing that wealth follows a strong candidate with a high likelihood of success. Read Freaknomics for more detail. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 ...Wouldn't it be great to be able to truly get behind a leader you trusted and believed in?... No...I don't need to be led anywhere...the leadership is for government. Understand the difference? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bob Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 From Canada? Probably not! I meant to say not from Canada. That was a typo. Again, this is where you fail to understand the history of the United States, massive immigrations, even slavery on a scale that contributed to the differences in population. The US is not afraid of immigration, illegal or otherwise. Some members here will crow about Canada's per-capita immigration....too little...too late. Those massive immigrations took place in a context when there weren't a fraction of the same entitlements. Back then, people actually had to work and be self-sufficient. Things are much different today in the USA. Before, people couldn't go to the USA and expect things for free as they can now. If America didn't provide all those freebies, it wouldn't be an attractive country to the Mexican trash that continues to pour over your border. Doesn't bother me in the least...but apparently it's scaring you big time. I don't think we'll get close to seeing its epitome in this lifetime, but it will destroy the West eventually unless there is a major shift in the political culture. I see no evidence of that happening, even with the Tea Party. I said it before, I think the American political culture is the most immune to suicidal and destructive leftist politics, but that doesn't mean it can hold out forever. Quote My blog - bobinisrael.blogspot.com - I am writing on it, again!
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Posted October 10, 2011 ... I said it before, I think the American political culture is the most immune to suicidal and destructive leftist politics, but that doesn't mean it can hold out forever. If push comes to shove, the Americans will just fight it out, just like before...it ain't like Canada! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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