Ontario employees sent memo about "sensitivity" to Muslims.

[Shady]

Exactly. You take the bad with the good.

Incidentally, nobody ever seems to take note of the positive differences that many of these immigrants bring: work ethic, strong family ties and so on. Instead we get these quibbles about notes suggesting that we be sensitive.

Seriously, is that enough to get upset over ? If you don't like immigration then please go back to your Conservative Party meetings with your beefs and tell them - maybe they'll pay attention to you.

Complete nonsense. This isn't about immigration.

[Shady]

Like I said. This memo will be the only one sent one, regarding only this particular religion. No other religions seem to need memos from the government.

[Shady]

Because in a free society in which people of different backgrounds converge there's going to be some tension and some give and take. IMO, that's healthy.

Don't push your religion on me. You can believe whatever you wanna believe. Just don't make me conform to your beliefs. I'll eat whatever I want to for lunch, etc, thank you very much.

[Bob]

Michael Hardner at his best, engaging is obfuscation as he always does. Did anyone in here make any statements opposing immigration wholesale? Why would we communicate a message of opposition to immigration to politicians if that's not what we're opposed to? It is so typical of a leftist like Michael Hardner to portray the opposition to the social change that this Muslim-memo is indicative of as blanket opposition to immigration. I think it's also quite clear that Michael Hardner is trying to smear some of us as racists and Islamophobes with his rhetoric.

I am sure those in here that agree with my perspectives (r some of them) oppose immigration policy as it currently is. There's a big difference between criticizing current immigration policy, and opposing immigration wholesale. Nevermind the fact that this thread isn't really about immigration, although that won't stop Michael Hardner, our leftist "forum facilitator", from trying to destroy the conversation by deflecting it into left field with somewhat relevant tangents.

Our perspective is simple. Every should be treated equally. Of course the leftists use terms like "equality" as buzzwords, because what they really want is to give special treatment to particular groups that they are enamored with as they view them as "disadvantaged" groups that need their hugs and kisses in order to integrate into society. The leftist is like the girlfriend that goes from abusive relationship to abusive relationship, constantly looking for another ethnic group or minority to "assist". Apparently Muslims need some "sensitivity" to be extended from the rest of us at the workplace in order to make it through their month-long fast. Better go eat your lunch in the bathroom in order nor to make Muhammad salivate in the lunchroom while he reads Al-Jazeera headlines on his iPhone.

Remember folks, if you want everyone to be held to the same standards an be treated equally, you're either bigoted, racist, intolerant, or Islamphobic. Only the enlightened, considerate, compassionate and well-mannered leftist have enough acuity to hide their foods from hungry fasting Muslims who don't want to see food during Ramadan, to hide their disgust with the body odour of hijab and burka draped Muslim women on hot summer days, and be comfortable with extra time off being given for breaks to Muslims who "need" to go pray in the boardroom without paying any sort of rental fee.

[Bob]

Complete nonsense. This isn't about immigration.

I should've been that concise. Although immigration is a somewhat related issue to this broader discussion, it's clear that Michael Hardner, true to form, is trying to destroy yet another thread by blatantly misrepresenting everything that's been said.

[Black Dog]

Don't push your religion on me. You can believe whatever you wanna believe. Just don't make me conform to your beliefs. I'll eat whatever I want to for lunch, etc, thank you very much.

That hasn't changed.

So what are you crying about?

[Bob]

As if any of us are opposed to good immigration. I'm sure most of us want good immigrants. What's a good immigrant? An immigrant who isn't going to be a net liability on the system. In other words, an immigrant with a job and good education. Beyond that, why are we afraid to demand that immigrants to our societies subscribe to our basic values of democracy, free markets, pluralism, and secularism? Why are we importing third-world trash into our country that have nothing to offer us except siting on welfare, committing crimes, and pumping out children? Look at Somalian immigration, as an example, it's been a disaster. Anyone with half a brain could've told you that when it started, seeing these diseased old women wrapped up in cloaks with seven children and no education, let along language skills.

If the Somalian has fluent English or French, and has a good education and a job lined up, and isn't dressed up like some desert nomad, then there's no problem. But of course, those aren't the Somalians we tend to bring in.

[Guest American Woman]

The problem with the "sensitivity to Muslims" memo, as I see it, is not that people were being asked to be sensitive to Muslims at this time, but that the same "sensitivity" isn't required regarding others. As has been pointed out, memos aren't circulated reminding workers that some Christians have given up this or that for Lent, so please keep said food items out of meeting luncheons or stick only to kosher foods during Passover or whatever. It's one thing to remind people to be sensitive and understanding - it's quite another to expect them to abide by their customs. They must fast, so no one can eat at meetings? That's going a bit beyond what is normally expected/required.

And yes, we must expect "give and take" in our societies, but that should be on everyone's part; everyone should be doing some giving and taking. Seems to me society right now is bending over backwards to "give" to some while having no qualms about "taking" from others. It's the flavor of the week to be tolerant of some while at the same time totally intolerant and critical of others. It's evident in this thread - people ask for an opinion and then are called all kinds of names and reprimanded for their views if they aren't of the "tolerant of anything Islamic" variety. I always shake my head at the irony of the intolerance and rudeness exhibited by this ilk towards anyone who disagrees with their point of view. It would be hilarious if it weren't so hypocritical.

I've said that I have no problem keeping Christmas out of public places, out of the work place, so I have no problem with having the same expectations for other religions. My views are consistent.

Edited September 27, 2011 by American Woman

[scribblet]

Agreed, I'm not aware of any other memos or directives asking anyone to be sensitive to Christians or Hindus et al.

There does seem to be an all out effort to give preferential treatment to one group, and our secular schools and systems be damned.

[Michael Hardner]

The problem with the "sensitivity to Muslims" memo, as I see it, is not that people were being asked to be sensitive to Muslims at this time, but that the same "sensitivity" isn't required regarding others. As has been pointed out, memos aren't circulated reminding workers that some Christians have given up this or that for Lent, so please keep said food items out of meeting luncheons or stick only to kosher foods during Passover or whatever.

It's in the context though. People don't really give up much for Lent anymore. Muslim practices are new and unknown to many people. Most people wouldn't offer pork to a Jewish person, but they may not be aware that it's also against Muslim practices.

Context is important here.

[Michael Hardner]

As if any of us are opposed to good immigration. I'm sure most of us want good immigrants. What's a good immigrant? An immigrant who isn't going to be a net liability on the system. In other words, an immigrant with a job and good education. Beyond that, why are we afraid to demand that immigrants to our societies subscribe to our basic values of democracy, free markets, pluralism, and secularism? Why are we importing third-world trash into our country that have nothing to offer us except siting on welfare, committing crimes, and pumping out children? Look at Somalian immigration, as an example, it's been a disaster. Anyone with half a brain could've told you that when it started, seeing these diseased old women wrapped up in cloaks with seven children and no education, let along language skills.

You have no proof for what you say here. You have no idea either, I suspect. My instinct is that your ideas are generated from within you.

[Bob]

It's in the context though. People don't really give up much for Lent anymore. Muslim practices are new and unknown to many people. Most people wouldn't offer pork to a Jewish person, but they may not be aware that it's also against Muslim practices.

Context is important here.

So these imaginary people that are offering pork to Muslims need to be taken aside and discreetly informed by babysitters like yourself not to do so for some reason? Who cares if a person offers a Muslim some pork? These Muslims are so helpless that they need someone like Michael Hardner to pre-emptively inform their non-Muslim co-workers that they shouldn't make such an offer in order to prevent.... what exactly?

God, you have such a sick and perverted perspective of society. You want to hold everyone's hand for everything.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Bob

[Michael Hardner]

Michael Hardner at his best, engaging is obfuscation as he always does. Did anyone in here make any statements opposing immigration wholesale? Why would we communicate a message of opposition to immigration to politicians if that's not what we're opposed to? It is so typical of a leftist like Michael Hardner to portray the opposition to the social change that this Muslim-memo is indicative of as blanket opposition to immigration. I think it's also quite clear that Michael Hardner is trying to smear some of us as racists and Islamophobes with his rhetoric.

Fair enough... I should have qualified my statements to say "Muslim immigration" as that is where you appear to have problems. Mea culpa.

Remember folks, if you want everyone to be held to the same standards an be treated equally, you're either bigoted, racist, intolerant, or Islamphobic.

On this very thread, you made disparaging remarks regarding Muslims so you're brandishing that hyperbole that I mentioned earlier, IMO.

[guyser]

Agreed, I'm not aware of any other memos or directives asking anyone to be sensitive to Christians or Hindus et al.

There does seem to be an all out effort to give preferential treatment to one group, and our secular schools and systems be damned.

From the article...

He said hospitals, universities, banks and other secular institutions

make similar arrangements for people of different faiths.

”In this case they are responding to the needs of their Muslim stake holders

and are being inclusive,” Shirazi said.

[Bob]

You have no proof for what you say here. You have no idea either, I suspect. My instinct is that your ideas are generated from within you.

Yes, "proof proof proof". The never ending refrain of an oblivious and myopic leftist who is unable to conceptualize anything without a social science Ph.D. with some "study" to illustrate basic concepts and tell him how to think.

[Michael Hardner]

So these imaginary people that are offering pork to Muslims need to be taken aside and discreetly informed by babysitters like yourself not to do so for some reason? Who cares if a person offers a Muslim some pork?

I don't know - they could be insulted by it, as could some Jews don't you think ?

God, you have such a sick and perverted perspective of society. You want to hold everyone's hand for everything.

I think it's called being polite. We had a Jehovah's Witness in our company once, so we stopped holding birthday parties for the whole office too, and instead had a more discreet celebration. Individuals could say 'happy birthday' to the person. Everyone was ok with it, and we could include this person in group celebrations.

How do you feel about that ? Does that compel you to stand and scream and to throw your chair across the room ?

[Michael Hardner]

Yes, "proof proof proof". The never ending refrain of an oblivious and myopic leftist who is unable to conceptualize anything without a social science Ph.D. with some "study" to illustrate basic concepts and tell him how to think.

Ok - well I say that Muslims are as productive as the rest of us, have better family values and we are lucky to have them.

You don't need proof, I trust.

Good.

[Bob]

Fair enough... I should have qualified my statements to say "Muslim immigration" as that is where you appear to have problems. Mea culpa.

On this very thread, you made disparaging remarks regarding Muslims so you're brandishing that hyperbole that I mentioned earlier, IMO.

I never denigrated all Muslims, although the leftist spin doctor in you thinks he can tell other forum members what I said. There are certainly groups of Muslims (and others) that are incapable of successfully integrating into our society, because they cling to and perpetuate inferior social values and cultures within the framework of freedom that they abuse in our countries. Of course, you continually obfuscate the truth by misrepresenting the statements of those who don't adhere to your suicidal doctrine of political correctness. If I insult Islamists and other desert nomads for their sick values of honour killings and their warped political narratives, I am "anti-Islamic", because people like you are either unable to or refuse to see the difference between Islamists and "ordinary" Muslims.

[Michael Hardner]

I never denigrated all Muslims...

Your quote:

Not wonder what the hell Abdul is doing washing his feet in the sink is "polite and sensitive"? Pretending not to be disgusted with Fatima's body odour

All right Bob... I'm not going to play People's Court over this. You know what you posted, and I have dealt with enough posters who like to play games such as this. Maybe you can find a rationalization that will allow you to connive your way out of your statement aobe but I won't pay attention to it.

[Bob]

Ok - well I say that Muslims are as productive as the rest of us, have better family values and we are lucky to have them.

You don't need proof, I trust.

Good.

Without question Muslim Canadians do not outperform the average Canadian on any meaningful barometer. And if you want to get more precise, there is absolutely no doubt that there is a positive correlation between Muslim religiosity and lack of education/academic achievement, rejection of fundamental social values, dependence on welfare and other social support, and lower income, and probably even disease and criminal activity. Moreover, immigrants from certain countries are overwhelmingly a failure in our society (Somalia, as a perfect example)

[Bob]

Your quote:

All right Bob... I'm not going to play People's Court over this. You know what you posted, and I have dealt with enough posters who like to play games such as this. Maybe you can find a rationalization that will allow you to connive your way out of your statement aobe but I won't pay attention to it.

And as I've already explained, perhaps you would have preferred that used other names for these hypothetical character I used to illustrate Muslim practises being discusses in a thread about a Muslim sensitivity memo, such as Jane and Justin?

Edited September 27, 2011 by Bob

[Michael Hardner]

Without question Muslim Canadians do not outperform the average Canadian on any meaningful barometer.

Ah... but without question THEY DO. Do you see now ?

[Michael Hardner]

And as I've already explained, perhaps you would have preferred that used other names for these hypothetical character...

If you're wondering how much I'll indulge your attempts to step away from your remark, see my previous post.

[Bob]

Ah... but without question THEY DO. Do you see now ?

I'll trust the intelligent posters in this forum to decide for themselves, based on their own experiences and observations, whether or not Muslims in a broad sense outperform non-Muslim Canadians on any meaningful barometer (they don't, that's why garbage neighbourhoods and subsidized-housing projects have plenty of them). Unfortunately for you, some people in here are intelligent and experienced enough to arrive as accurate conclusions regarding this question on their own. They don't need some 22-year-old social science student with a gig at Stats Can and a political agenda to tell them what to think based on a "study" that did a hundred surveys in Toronto.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Bob

[guyser]

Yes, "proof proof proof". The never ending refrain of an oblivious and myopic leftist who is unable to conceptualize anything without a social science Ph.D. with some "study" to illustrate basic concepts and tell him how to think.

By your own admission you denigrate and scoff at learned professors when you 'think' the whole lot are wrong. You describe them aall as leftists who know nothing.

You paint yourself as a Far-Right-Wing Ultra-Nationalist Extemist. By that measure you are a believer of supremicism, anti-immigration and anti-integration.

So of course you would hype this memo as downfall of our society.

Which of course it isnt and nor will it be any time soon.

Youre an angry disillusioned bigot who hates anything non-white. Well, except for your imaginary muslim gay onelegged lesbian half black transgendered buddy......ya know , the one every idiot bigot trots out...."But but but I have a friend whos muslim" so I cant be what you say.

Canada sucks, we get it, except Israel has far more problems than Canada will ever have, but of course this country is the one on the road to ruin.

Hopefully you never breed. Enough ignorant bigot A-holes already live here.

You are not new, you are not entertaining, you are boring and a ranter who rarely makes sense.