Ontario employees sent memo about "sensitivity" to Muslims.

[Bob]

You appear to equate 'accomodation' with some sort of replacement of your own cultural values, which then makes your ignorance understandable and forgiveable.

The memo, however, is meant for broad audience as a nice-to-know so there isn't any inadvertant offensiveness that will require more resources to resolve. It is an easy management policy to avoid conflict and tie up resources.

"What's next" coming from your posture isn't really relevant. However, it is interesting to learn and appreciate other cultures, don't you think?

The thing is that this "sensitivity" memo is the tip of the iceberg. As you've mentioned, although few people know this, the government (all levels) actually run "multiculturalism workshops" (indoctrination-education) in order to a> waste money on something posing as a valuable cultural development endeavor, and b> sell people on lies about another culture in order to promote the suicidal ideology of "multiculturalism".

If someone wants to learn about another culture, go do it yourself. Muslims don't need special moves to be made to accommodate them. And if they need special accommodations, they should be looking for another job. Everyone should be the same. If you have religious obligations that prevent you from being able to work - you quit. If you have issues being around food during your Ramadan fast, get over it or quit. If you. Designating special prayer rooms for Muslims in schools and public offices? Are you kidding me? We would never allow everyone to be taking extra breaks every day to pray, so why are you allowing Muslims to do so?

Why is there a need to "avoid conflict"? Why would Muslim religious practises at work cause conflict in the first place, pray tell?

Edited September 26, 2011 by Bob

[Shwa]

Yeah, they're linked by religious beliefs - specifically tolerance and respect of religious beliefs and displays of religious beliefs and others being expected to work around others' religious beliefs in the work place. Hope that helps clear things up .... in your mind I mean.

Now, about my question, you think such a memo exists? You think such displays are allowed? You think other people are told they must not only be subjected to said Christmas customs, but must also be tolerant of them?

Just askin' .............

I'm wondering if a memo will be passed around during the Christmas season, reminding people to be sensitive to Christians' mangers and Christmas trees and caroling ...... all of which, I'm sure, are allowed to be displayed.

No they are not linked as evidenced by the lack of any Christmas type memo that you seek. They are separate issues that involve the tolerance of religious beliefs in the work place, but are not predisposed or dependent on each other in any way whatsoever, except for the dilemna that arises out of your thinking that it they should be linked.

Thus it appears that all you are looking for is justification for your foolish false dichotomy or you have difficulty staying on topic and feel a need to involve others to help solve your mental problems.

[Bob]

It's not just Christians - so let's use the example of the requirement to "change lunch meetings to standard meetings where no food or drinks are served." Why isn't it required that only kosher foods/foods that are allowed be served in meetings during Passover?

The reason, obviously, is because a Jewish person has a responsibility to himself to make his or her own accommodations where necessary. Certain Muslims, on the other hand, complicit with the suicidal leftists who chant the mantra of "multiculturalism", seem to want everyone else to bend to their will. The question is, where does it stop?

Are Muslims going to be cut extra slack on the month of Ramadan because they're always hungry, cranky, and late for work?

[Bob]

No they are not linked as evidenced by the lack of any Christmas type memo that you seek. They are separate issues that involve the tolerance of religious beliefs in the work place, but are not predisposed or dependent on each other in any way whatsoever, except for the dilemna that arises out of your thinking that it they should be linked.

Thus it appears that all you are looking for is justification for your foolish false dichotomy or you have difficulty staying on topic and feel a need to involve others to help solve your mental problems.

Tolerance of intolerance is not an issue here. Nobody is opposed to their religious practises. What we're opposing is that special "accommodations" be made towards them for their needs. They should bend for us, not the other way around.

[Shwa]

The thing is that this "sensitivity" memo is the tip of the iceberg. As you've mentioned, although few people know this, the government (all levels) actually run "multiculturalism workshops" (indoctrination-education) in order to a> waste money on something posing as a valuable cultural development endeavor, and b> sell people on lies about another culture in order to promote the suicidal ideology of "multiculturalism".

Well firstly, unless you have some key studies or some other informative data, people learning about other cultures is a good thing. That is my opinion which cancels yours out. Secondly, mulitculturalism has worked pretty good so far and is inclusive of all cultures, even the backward ones that say it is "suicidal." That's just my opinion, but seeing that you can't cite anything coherent to back up your position, a draw is as good as a win.

If someone wants to learn about another culture, go do it yourself. Muslims don't need special moves to be made to accommodate them. And if they need special accommodations, they should be looking for another job. Everyone should be the same. If you have religious obligations that prevent you from being able to work - you quit. If you have issues being around food during your Ramadan fast, get over it or quit. If you. Designating special prayer rooms for Muslims in schools and public offices? Are you kidding me? We would never allow everyone to be taking extra breaks every day to pray, so why are you allowing Muslims to do so?

The reason that we have accomodating policies and cross cultural training is because everyone isn't the same and simple respect of differences is an easy management policy that avoids conflict and keeps workers focused on the work. In other words, and according to your logic, if you don't like it you should be looking for another country.

Why is there a need to "avoid conflict"? Why would Muslim religious practises at work cause conflict in the first place, pray tell?

Why would anyone's practices at work cause conflict? I know people who have been told not to put on so much perfume and others told to bathe more frequently. It isn't just religious practices that cause conflict.

[Shwa]

Tolerance of intolerance is not an issue here. Nobody is opposed to their religious practises. What we're opposing is that special "accommodations" be made towards them for their needs. They should bend for us, not the other way around.

No, bending is not the point. Respect for others is, especially in a diverse workplace, wouldn't you agree?

[Black Dog]

No, bending is not the point. Respect for others is, especially in a diverse workplace, wouldn't you agree?

With these loons, though, it's all about the slippery slope. Give 'em an inch, they'll put you in a burka. Or something.

The logical thing would be to end all special accommodations for personal choices. No more holidays or time off for religious/cultural observations of any kind (eat it, Christmas; so long Passover). No parental leave (if having a child conflicts with your ability to do your job, get another one). No staff birthday parties or baby showers. Let's make work even more unpleasant rather than run the risk of offending the chronically offended.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Black Dog

[Scotty]

Good to know I'm in good company then.

Together we can help save Canada from the terrorists who come from the Far-Right-Wing Ultra-Nationalist Extemist movement.

I should start collecting some of your quotes. It's like, every week they get dumber and dumber. I'm wondering if there is some level or if they're in competition with someone or what...

[Scotty]

Does that include the incessant pandering to Jews too Bob?

Would you like to enlighten us about what this 'pandering to Joooos' consists of?

[Scotty]

You must be a mind reader BD

And yet, if someone complains about accommodating Muslim beliefs, even silly ones, both of you turn into knee-jerk politically correct stormtrooper outrage mode.

I don't even have to wonder what either of you PC zealots would say if someone said "Well, if those Muslims don't like it they can just fuck off to their other country".

[Scotty]

As I said, we do it for Christians too...

Really? Where? When? How?

[Scotty]

I'm with you on this one.

I'm sure that makes him reeeal proud.

[Scotty]

I'm fairly confident that all OPS employees are entitled to additional time off for religious holidays outside of stats.

Do you think that entitlement should end as well?

They are? On what basis are they given extra time off? Do they have to make it up on other days?

Otherwise, I'm going to join whatever religion has the most holidays so I can get more time off work...

[Scotty]

A particular group. In any case, I think it's insulting and against forum rules.

Oh suddenly you're worried about forum rules. Funny how you've not noticed the number of open and clear insults on this topic.

Perhaps because they're coming from your side of the fence...

Do forum rules only count when you don't like the political stance or ideological views of the person in question?

Edited September 26, 2011 by Scotty

[Scotty]

I'm not a moderator, but I doubt that they enjoy lawyerly wordplay in defence of insults.

Would you care to enlighten us about how Bob's comments are against the rules? I just checked the rules, you see, and there's nothing in them about objecting, in an admittedly politically incorrect fashion, to things like the body odor of Muslim women in burquas or or men washing their feet or whatnot. Just because you find the comment objectionable that does not make it against forum rules.

In fact, I see nothing in the rules about making racist statements. So even if one can interpret Bob's words as being racist or bigoted that is not, as far as I can see, against the rules either. If I'm wrong, please show me the particular clause.

Furthermore, you've completely ignored a number of insults directed at Bob, notably by BD and Rick. Why is that? These are fairly clear violations of forum rules.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Scotty

[Scotty]

It's not just Christians - so let's use the example of the requirement to "change lunch meetings to standard meetings where no food or drinks are served." Why isn't it required that only kosher foods/foods that are allowed be served in meetings during Passover?

Personally, if my group meeting regularly had (as some do) muffins, or timbits and juice, and these were cancelled for a month because one of the members was a Muslim, I think that would tend to actually produce hostility and negative thoughts and behavior towards that Muslim member.

I'm not against being sensitive, but in no way do I think my behaviour ought to be forced to alter because of the religious sensitivities of someone else.

[Michael Hardner]

Really? Where? When? How?

Religious holidays have already been pointed out here.

[Michael Hardner]

Would you care to enlighten us about how Bob's comments are against the rules?

I just checked. It's in the first 5 words, I think.

[Black Dog]

And yet, if someone complains about accommodating Muslim beliefs, even silly ones, both of you turn into knee-jerk politically correct stormtrooper outrage mode.

I don't even have to wonder what either of you PC zealots would say if someone said "Well, if those Muslims don't like it they can just fuck off to their other country".

If the Muslims were in question were being whiny-ass bitches about something as trivial as this, advocating other groups be kept out of the country or be forced to bend to to the norms of the white Anglo Saxon majority, while simultaneously working to further the interests of a foreign power despite claiming Canadian citizenship, I'd have no trouble whatsoever telling them to sod off to whence they came. But we don't have any of those posters here.

[Bob]

Well firstly, unless you have some key studies or some other informative data, people learning about other cultures is a good thing. That is my opinion which cancels yours out. Secondly, mulitculturalism has worked pretty good so far and is inclusive of all cultures, even the backward ones that say it is "suicidal." That's just my opinion, but seeing that you can't cite anything coherent to back up your position, a draw is as good as a win.

Studies? You are now requesting that I provide studies in order to justify the position that spending taxpayer money on indoctrinating the public service into "multicultural" ideology is waste of time and resources? Yet of course you are able to make the absurd statement of such endeavours being "beneficial to society", and therefore worthwhile of the taxpayer. Why not give everything to the public service that is "beneficial to society"? Give them complementary art history classes and workshops. Give them complementary lifetime memberships at the most expensive fitness clubs. Give them complementary nutrition and addiction services.

I love how leftists like you obfuscate and overcomplicate everything, as if simply expecting everyone at work to follow the same expectations is "intolerant" or "disrespectful". Multiculturalism is and will continue to be a disaster, where Canada's national identity becomes more ambiguous and nebulous. We believe in nothing, and we will fall for anything. When it's come to the point that my position of the superiority of Canadian society over most other societies (particularly communist and Islamic/Arabic societies) is now decried as "racist", we can all see how far we've fallen as Canadians. Like I said, I get no pleasure in realizing that with the onset of increasing political correctness and importation of more and more third world trash who bring with them their inferior and barbaric cultures, we're finished as a society.

The reason that we have accomodating policies and cross cultural training is because everyone isn't the same and simple respect of differences is an easy management policy that avoids conflict and keeps workers focused on the work. In other words, and according to your logic, if you don't like it you should be looking for another country.

No, we're certainly not all the same. I've known that forever. How about you? Does that mean we should have different expectations of standards for different people? For example, should we give special bonus points to job or university applications from people who are labeled as "disadvantaged" (such as Aboriginals or blacks) in order to "accommodate"? Should we designate rooms in public offices and schools for Muslim prayer sessions (without a rental fee, even)? Should we not bring food into business meetings in the public service because some hungry Muslim feels deprived during their Ramadan fast? Should I tell Fahdi that washing his feet in the common sink is disgusting because I am "sensitive" to his religious practises that I don't give a damn about? Since when am I supposed to respect anybody's religious beliefs, anyways? I don't expect any "respect" from you for any Jewish holidays I observe. And I will make special arrangements for myself for any Jewish holidays I choose to observe, and not expect my co-workers to bring only kosher-for-passover foods or keep a kosher sink for my purposes.

Why would anyone's practices at work cause conflict? I know people who have been told not to put on so much perfume and others told to bathe more frequently. It isn't just religious practices that cause conflict.

Putting on too much perfume at work, or in any public place, is just as ridiculous as a Muslim expecting me not to eat a sandwich in the meeting room because she's hungry during Ramadan. This is an issue of personal responsibility.

I'm still waiting for an answer from you folks regarding how many Muslims you're willing to tolerate in Canada. It's an uncomfortable question that leftists either avoid, or answer moronically (i.e. dre, Peter F, Rick, and GostHacked) by stating they're totally comfortable with a Canada composed completely of Muslims. You think it's bad now, it's only going to get worse as we keep importing these people and refuse to place any expectations onto newcomers for meaningful assimilation and avoid assertion of our superior value system.

[Black Dog]

Personally, if my group meeting regularly had (as some do) muffins, or timbits and juice, and these were cancelled for a month because one of the members was a Muslim, I think that would tend to actually produce hostility and negative thoughts and behavior towards that Muslim member.

I'm not against being sensitive, but in no way do I think my behaviour ought to be forced to alter because of the religious sensitivities of someone else.

Is there any evidence whatsoever that anyone was forced to change any behaviours here? All we have a memo advising management to be aware that certain employees may need to be accommodated and some suggestions for how that can be done.

[Bob]

If the Muslims were in question were being whiny-ass bitches about something as trivial as this, advocating other groups be kept out of the country or be forced to bend to to the norms of the white Anglo Saxon majority, while simultaneously working to further the interests of a foreign power despite claiming Canadian citizenship, I'd have no trouble whatsoever telling them to sod off to whence they came. But we don't have any of those posters here.

Yeah, how strange it is for someone with dual citizenship to have an opinion on something and be unapologetically patriotic towards both countries.

"Furthering the interests of a foreign power", sounds like bullshit from Ford's The International Jew. It reveals a lot about yourself that a Canadian asserting the superiority of Canadian society over inferior societies and cultures is described by you as "racist" and "bigoted". Remember, Islamism and communism are no better or worse than democracy, free markets, and secularism. They're just different ways of arranging things, eh?

[Bob]

Is there any evidence whatsoever that anyone was forced to change any behaviours here? All we have a memo advising management to be aware that certain employees may need to be accommodated and some suggestions for how that can be done.

The memo doesn't seem to be available, but what we do know is that apparently there was a request for non-Muslim employees to be discreet with their food because of hungry fasting Muslim co-workers for the month-long Ramadan fast. That's pathetic.

Moreover, do you think this is the only story of such bullshit in Canada? This is just another in a long list of similar stories along the same theme. Where've you been? Whether it's Islamists trying to censor Ezra Levant's free speech (which perhaps you're in favour of), to designating rooms in public schools for Muslim prayer sessions with an Imam, to this bullshit in the public service with indoctrination classes on "multiculturalism" and "tolerance" (all on the taxpayer's dime). You act as if this is some sort of isolated incident. It's not our fault that you're so ignorant, and we cant walk you through everything and spoonfeed you the details.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Bob

[Shady]

People who proudly make repugnant statements on minorities are a far bigger problem than individuals requesting time off for religious holidays, IMO.

False choice.

[Black Dog]

I'm still waiting for an answer from you folks regarding how many Muslims you're willing to tolerate in Canada. It's an uncomfortable question that leftists either avoid, or answer moronically (i.e. dre, Peter F, Rick, and GostHacked) by stating they're totally comfortable with a Canada composed completely of Muslims.

I'm willing to tolerate the same % of Muslims as I am religious Jews, Mennonites, Catholics, Russian Orthodox, Zoroastrian, Rastafarian, Pastafarian, whatever.

So long as people are willing to come here and adopt, as the majority of Muslims do, to the norms and laws of our society.

You think it's bad now, it's only going to get worse as we keep importing these people and refuse to place any expectations onto newcomers for meaningful assimilation and avoid assertion of our superior value system.

And how do you want to force the issue of asserting our superior value system? And who does that apply to? I mean, does it just apply to immigrants, or can we roll up into the Hassidic neighbourhoods in Montreal, say, and tell those beardos to get with the times as well?

Edited September 27, 2011 by Black Dog