capricorn Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Yes I'm quoting myself. This was a serious question and I received no response, so I thought I would ask again. The fact the question may be serious to you in no way obligates me to respond. I don't fully understand the relationship between Christians and Conservatives. Seeing as I don't believe there is necessarily a relationship between Christians and Conservatives, it's not an issue I want to rack my brain over. Sorry for not being predisposed to furthering your understanding of something you want to delve into. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) The fact the question may be serious to you in no way obligates me to respond. So you responded to my question by telling me you are not going to respond???? Uhhhh Thanks? Edited September 27, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
capricorn Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 So you responded to my question by telling me you are not going to respond???? Uhhhh Thanks? Had you gotten the message before asking the same question a second time you wouldn't be so perplexed. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Had you gotten the message before asking the same question a second time you wouldn't be so perplexed. capricorn your not the only one on this forum. I was re-posting for other people. If you don't want to respond to the question then simply don't say anything. Don't respond by saying you don't want to respond. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
Jack Weber Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Yes I'm quoting myself. This was a serious question and I received no response, so I thought I would ask again. I don't fully understand the relationship between Christians and Conservatives. It seems to me a oxymoron, and on the Christian end hypocritical. I am going to make some observations here that I have of Conservatives that I know and some that I believe are that post on this site. Please correct me If I am wrong, and I will try not to generalize to much (may not be helped). Please feel free to add to my list. Conservatives values that go against the Values Jesus Taught Pro Capitalist (a system run on self interest) Pro Corporation ( a entity that values money above all else) Against Welfare State For harsh punishments against Crime Does not hold equality as a value (more for the rich than the poor ie pro business anti-union) Pro War (More than the left anyways) Pro Capital Punishment Well...As someone who is a believer (although not always a good one) and someone who definately lines up on the side of organized labour...Other than the abortion issue,I cannot understand why Christians line up on the side of the political right.I think this is largely a phenomenon in the "Bible Belt" of the US,and to a lesser extent,pockets in Canada. If you want to see how far gone some of the kooks that claim to be Christian and believe,ideologically speaking,in the things you pointed out....Check out Joel Osteen and his belief in "Prosperity Theology"... Capitalist/Individualist greed run amok and seemingly...Ordained by God Himself!!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
lukin Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Well...As someone who is a believer (although not always a good one) and someone who definately lines up on the side of organized labour...Other than the abortion issue,I cannot understand why Christians line up on the side of the political right.I think this is largely a phenomenon in the "Bible Belt" of the US,and to a lesser extent,pockets in Canada. If you want to see how far gone some of the kooks that claim to be Christian and believe,ideologically speaking,in the things you pointed out....Check out Joel Osteen and his belief in "Prosperity Theology"... Capitalist/Individualist greed run amok and seemingly...Ordained by God Himself!!!! Are you in the habit of giving a portion of your paycheque to a person on welfare so that you and s/he could have the same monthly income? Quote
Jack Weber Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Are you in the habit of giving a portion of your paycheque to a person on welfare so that you and s/he could have the same monthly income? No I'm not,however... I'm not certain Mr. Osteen's wealth is necessarily ordained by God... In fact,I think Joel Osteen's blathering about "Prosperity Theology" is a crock and a cop out... He's a reasonably charismatic televangelist who's very good at fund raising...That's about it... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
lukin Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 No I'm not,however... I'm not certain Mr. Osteen's wealth is necessarily ordained by God... In fact,I think Joel Osteen's blathering about "Prosperity Theology" is a crock and a cop out... He's a reasonably charismatic televangelist who's very good at fund raising...That's about it... If Jesus doesn't like capitalism, like citizenX claims, then shouldn't all who earn a paycheque share with those that do not? Only capitalist pigs keep money for themselves, right? Quote
Jack Weber Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 If Jesus doesn't like capitalism, like citizenX claims, then shouldn't all who earn a paycheque share with those that do not? Only capitalist pigs keep money for themselves, right? Well...No... Now you're being two dimensional.. What did Jesus say??? He said "Money is at the root of all evil",right? But's not money precisely,it's the lust for money and wealth that drives man to do horrific things.That does'nt mean selfish capitalists are the only problem because there were a whole lot of wealthy "leftists" who seemingly are only interested in making themselves wealthy.. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
BubberMiley Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) If Jesus doesn't like capitalism, like citizenX claims, then shouldn't all who earn a paycheque share with those that do not? No, but if they want to be christians and not hypocritical christians, then yes. Edited September 27, 2011 by BubberMiley Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
lukin Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Well...No... Now you're being two dimensional.. What did Jesus say??? He said "Money is at the root of all evil",right? But's not money precisely,it's the lust for money and wealth that drives man to do horrific things.That does'nt mean selfish capitalists are the only problem because there were a whole lot of wealthy "leftists" who seemingly are only interested in making themselves wealthy.. Then things got off track here....citizenx made generalizations. Capitalism isn't all evil. Quote
Jack Weber Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Then things got off track here....citizenx made generalizations. Capitalism isn't all evil. It's not all evil...But unchecked it becomes a horrible extreme... But neither are elements of Socialism inherently evil...But unchecked,it can morph into some pretty horrible things It's called a Mixed Market economy,and generally,it works pretty well... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) What did Jesus say??? He said "Money is at the root of all evil",right? But's not money precisely,it's the lust for money and wealth that drives man to do horrific things.That does'nt mean selfish capitalists are the only problem because there were a whole lot of wealthy "leftists" who seemingly are only interested in making themselves wealthy.. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." Timothy 6:10 Edited September 27, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Are you in the habit of giving a portion of your paycheque to a person on welfare so that you and s/he could have the same monthly income? If Jesus doesn't like capitalism, like citizenX claims, then shouldn't all who earn a paycheque share with those that do not? Only capitalist pigs keep money for themselves, right? "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." -Ezekiel 16:49 “For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” Luke 18:25 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."-Matthew 6:24 "Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'" -Matthew 19:21 Now I want to be perfectly clear here. I am not trying to insult any ones faith, and would like to keep this discussion civilized. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
capricorn Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 What did Jesus say??? He said "Money is at the root of all evil",right? It's not money that is the root of all evil it is the "love" of money. That's significantly different. http://bible.cc/1_timothy/6-10.htm Some bible translations of the apostle's words say "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" others say "The love of money is the root of all evil". Here's the verse 1 Timothy 6 in the International Standard Version (2008). "But people who want to get rich keep toppling into temptation and are trapped by many stupid and harmful desires that plunge them into destruction and ruin. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, in their eagerness to get rich, have wandered away from the faith and caused[e] themselves a lot of pain." http://isv.scripturetext.com/1_timothy/6.htm Here's the same verse in the King James version. "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." http://kingjbible.com/1_timothy/6.htm Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 How about Olivia Chow making excellent coin and living in subsidized housing. How about you made that up. One might say you are lair who spreads lies. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 One might say that... and that would be an insult... but you didn't say that... but one might... right ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Well...As someone who is a believer (although not always a good one) and someone who definately lines up on the side of organized labour...Other than the abortion issue,I cannot understand why Christians line up on the side of the political right.I think this is largely a phenomenon in the "Bible Belt" of the US,and to a lesser extent,pockets in Canada. If you want to see how far gone some of the kooks that claim to be Christian and believe,ideologically speaking,in the things you pointed out....Check out Joel Osteen and his belief in "Prosperity Theology"... Capitalist/Individualist greed run amok and seemingly...Ordained by God Himself!!!! I appreciate your candor as a "believer" and am very pleased that you didn't take offence to my question. Other than the abortion issue can you think of any other reasons Christians line up on the side of the political right. I would think it's might also be because the right claim to advocate "family Values", but I'm not sure I know what this means to them and the people that support them. Perhaps their anti-same sex marriage stance? How would you define "family Values"? Note: A Synonym for Hypocrisy is Bad Faith...lol Edited September 27, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
Jack Weber Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 I appreciate your candor as a "believer" and am very pleased that you didn't take offence to my question. Other than the abortion issue can you think of any other reasons Christians line up on the side of the political right. I would think it's might also be because the right claim to advocate "family Values", but I'm not sure I know what this means to them and the people that support them. Perhaps their anti-same sex marriage stance? How would you define "family Values"? Note: A Synonym for Hypocrisy is Bad Faith...lol I probably should have said that the Christian Right lines up with conservatives because of morality issues... Ironically,most people here would probably think I'm some sort of Leftist...But this where I'll throw a wrench into that idea.I generally line up with the "Christian Right" on these morality issues because I believe in them.I'm definately NOT pro-abortion or pro gay rights.However,unlike those who wear these positions on their sleeves,I do not. Here's why... 1.The arguements are "no win" situations... 2.I think they are personal morality choices and I would'nt want someone elses personal morality lorded over me. 3.I think those that publicly moralize others tend to be the biggest phonies and hypocrits around... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
lukin Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 I probably should have said that the Christian Right lines up with conservatives because of morality issues... Ironically,most people here would probably think I'm some sort of Leftist...But this where I'll throw a wrench into that idea.I generally line up with the "Christian Right" on these morality issues because I believe in them.I'm definately NOT pro-abortion or pro gay rights.However,unlike those who wear these positions on their sleeves,I do not. Here's why... 1.The arguements are "no win" situations... 2.I think they are personal morality choices and I would'nt want someone elses personal morality lorded over me. 3.I think those that publicly moralize others tend to be the biggest phonies and hypocrits around... There is only one acceptable position on gay rights. Quote
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) I probably should have said that the Christian Right lines up with conservatives because of morality issues... Ironically,most people here would probably think I'm some sort of Leftist...But this where I'll throw a wrench into that idea.I generally line up with the "Christian Right" on these morality issues because I believe in them.I'm definately NOT pro-abortion or pro gay rights.However,unlike those who wear these positions on their sleeves,I do not. Here's why... 1.The arguements are "no win" situations... 2.I think they are personal morality choices and I would'nt want someone elses personal morality lorded over me. 3.I think those that publicly moralize others tend to be the biggest phonies and hypocrits around... Well I've just got one word..WOW. Although we disagree on the issues of pro life/pro choice and gay rights I find your attitude and philosophy a breath of fresh air on this forum. I run into a lot of narrow minded hypocritical right wing Christians on this forum ( no offence American Woman, and lukin) Edited September 27, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
BubberMiley Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 There is only one acceptable position on gay rights. I agree completely. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Jack Weber Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 There is only one acceptable position on gay rights. Well,specifically you're right about Gay Rights.The reason is that we already have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that protects the individual from discrimination.We do NOT require a set of laws that supercede that Charter to protect approximately 3% of the population. As it relates to the Gay Marriage issue,obviously I'm firmly in the traditional marriage camp.However,I can see a case for some sort of civil union being necessary to decide property and personal belongings if such a living arrangment came to an end... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
lukin Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Well I've just got one word..WOW. Although we disagree on the issues of pro life/pro choice and gay rights I find your attitude and philosophy a breath of fresh air on this forum. I run into a lot of narrow minded hypocritical right wing Christians on this forum ( no offence American Woman, and lukin) Wow, now I'm a right-wing hypocritical Christian. The simple make baseless generalizations. That is your camp citx. Coming from ou, nothing is an offense. Edited September 28, 2011 by lukin Quote
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