Guest American Woman Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Thousands of Muslims are gathering at a rally in London to fight extremism and promote a moderate, inclusive version of Islam. The event's organizers Minhaj-ul-Quran International say some 12,000 Muslims are expected at Wembley Arena Saturday. Link This is good to see. I will be interested to see how it turns out - how many do actually turn out for the protest - and what kind of, if any, backlash they will receive. Quote
Boges Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Thousands of Muslims are gathering at a rally in London to fight extremism and promote a moderate, inclusive version of Islam. The event's organizers Minhaj-ul-Quran International say some 12,000 Muslims are expected at Wembley Arena Saturday. Link This is good to see. I will be interested to see how it turns out - how many do actually turn out for the protest - and what kind of, if any, backlash they will receive. I'm certain there'll be backlash. Muslim's in the UK protested Remembrance Day and 9/11 ceremonies in the past year. It's a good sign though. Quote
Boges Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Thousands of Muslims are gathering at a rally in London to fight extremism and promote a moderate, inclusive version of Islam. The event's organizers Minhaj-ul-Quran International say some 12,000 Muslims are expected at Wembley Arena Saturday. Link This is good to see. I will be interested to see how it turns out - how many do actually turn out for the protest - and what kind of, if any, backlash they will receive. I'm certain there'll be backlash. Muslim's in the UK protested Remembrance Day and 9/11 ceremonies in the past year. It's a good sign though. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 I'm certain there'll be backlash. If there is, it'll be really telling, IMO. I agree that it's a good sign - it's definitely a sign that there are Muslims who are as fed up with extremist views as non-Muslims are, so it sort of dispels the 'they're angry because of what we've done to fellow Muslims' "root cause" mindset that more or less puts the blame on the targeted. Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 If there is, it'll be really telling, IMO. I agree that it's a good sign - it's definitely a sign that there are Muslims who are as fed up with extremist views as non-Muslims are, so it sort of dispels the 'they're angry because of what we've done to fellow Muslims' "root cause" mindset that more or less puts the blame on the targeted. Well, it helps to prove what should be obvious to all. Muslims are NOT all of one stripe, the same as any other folks. Most are civilized, educated, examples of decent human beings. The rest are just primitive and ignorant bullies and louts. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Guest American Woman Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Well, it helps to prove what should be obvious to all. Muslims are NOT all of one stripe, the same as any other folks. I think it's going to do more than that (I actually believe the majority of the population are already aware of that); I think it's going to show other Muslims that not all Muslims think the same way/require the same "rules" under Islam, and furthermore, that there are a lot of Muslims who won't tolerate it, thereby making it more difficult for the fundamentalist/extremists to push/promote their beliefs. In other words, reform has to come from within Islam, from Muslims themselves. As long as they don't raise a fuss, the extremists will thrive. I see this as a good beginning. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 I think it's going to do more than that (I actually believe the majority of the population are already aware of that).... Agreed, and this is happening for a very practical reason....the people who are impacted the most by Islamic extremism are....other Muslims! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 I think it's going to do more than that (I actually believe the majority of the population are already aware of that); I think it's going to show other Muslims that not all Muslims think the same way/require the same "rules" under Islam, and furthermore, that there are a lot of Muslims who won't tolerate it, thereby making it more difficult for the fundamentalist/extremists to push/promote their beliefs. In other words, reform has to come from within Islam, from Muslims themselves. As long as they don't raise a fuss, the extremists will thrive. I see this as a good beginning. Yes well, many of us have likewise been trying to show that not all westerners are willing to tolerate the violence, terror and tyranny our side has caused to happen to so many Muslims. Like you said though, reform has to come from within. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jacee Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 The group's founder Muhammad Tahir-ul- Qadri says killing innocents is forbidden in Islam and Muslims must integrate into the societies in which they're living. This is wonderful. I hope it goes well. I wonder if there will be protests by extremists. It will clarify for the world that mainstream Muslims are not the problem, only extremists (Wahabi, etc.: pre-Islam tribal sects), and I do think there are lots of people who need to see/hear that message loud and clear. I hope there is no violent backlash, but I fear ... It takes courage to do this. Kudos! Quote
jacee Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Yes well, many of us have likewise been trying to show that not all westerners are willing to tolerate the violence, terror and tyranny our side has caused to happen to so many Muslims. Like you said though, reform has to come from within. Good points. "Reform ... from within" for the 'western world' too. Quote
eyeball Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Good points. "Reform ... from within" for the 'western world' too. Good luck with that... Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Guest American Woman Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Yes well, many of us have likewise been trying to show that not all westerners are willing to tolerate the violence, terror and tyranny our side has caused to happen to so many Muslims. Like you said though, reform has to come from within. I'm well aware of what your "reform" requires: rolling over and playing dead (because we brought it all on ourselves); taking blame for everything; tolerating intolerance. Thankfully we won't be seeing that from the masses any time soon. Quote
jbg Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 I read their declaration (link) and it actually seems good. The trick question is whether its solicitude for Israel includes recognizing it as a Jewish state (see excerpt below): 12. We the signatories to this declaration believe that the too-long-running conflict between Israel and Palestine needs to be resolved urgently and with scrupulous fairness. 13. We affirm the necessity urgently to resolve this conflict so as to provide both the Palestinians with a sovereign pluralistic and representative state and the Israelis with national and local security. If it is to be permanent and durable, the peace agreement between Israel and Palestine must be fully and actively supported and protected in a non-partisan fashion by the international community and its terms must be equally beneficial to the citizens of both states who have for so long feared and mistrusted each other. That is always one big hangup in Israel-Arab peace. I hope the organizers mean the right thing. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest American Woman Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 Hmmmmmmm.....they don't make that very clear, do they? Quote
jbg Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 Yes well, many of us have likewise been trying to show that not all westerners are willing to tolerate the violence, terror and tyranny our side has caused to happen to so many Muslims. Like you said though, reform has to come from within. That our side has caused? Can you pronounce "September 11"? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 Hmmmmmmm.....they don't make that very clear, do they? Always the nub of the problem. In 2000 Clinton's proposals were acceptable to Israel until Arafat wanted the right to flood 1948-67 Israel with immigrants. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
eyeball Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 That our side has caused? Can you pronounce "September 11"? Sure, but why? 9/11 was an effect not a cause. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 I'm well aware of what your "reform" requires: rolling over and playing dead (because we brought it all on ourselves); taking blame for everything; tolerating intolerance. Thankfully we won't be seeing that from the masses any time soon. Everything? Is there more that we don't know about? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jbg Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 Sure, but why? 9/11 was an effect not a cause. Sure, the planners of 9/11 showed great courage in sending other "fighters" to their own deaths. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
wyly Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 Always the nub of the problem. In 2000 Clinton's proposals were acceptable to Israel until Arafat wanted the right to flood 1948-67 Israel with immigrants. immigrants is that isreli speak for "ethnically cleansed refuges returning to their homes..". oh sure israel has lots of room for immigrants from all around the globe, but apparently no room for legitimate residents... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 Sure, the planners of 9/11 showed great courage in sending other "fighters" to their own deaths. just as GWB showed great courage sending thousands of American fighters to their deaths in Iraq... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 26, 2011 Report Posted September 26, 2011 That our side has caused? Can you pronounce "September 11"? a minor loss of life when compared to the of number deaths caused by US foreign policy...your problem as with many other americans is those "collateral damage" numbers that are glossed over in government reports represent real people with real families who suffer just as horribly as americans do when they lose loved ones...and the US(and other powers as well) have been doing this for decades... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
eyeball Posted September 26, 2011 Report Posted September 26, 2011 Sure, the planners of 9/11 showed great courage in sending other "fighters" to their own deaths. Oh well Grasshopper, how you step into the other's shoes is your business but so long as you're on the path.[shrug] Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jbg Posted September 26, 2011 Report Posted September 26, 2011 immigrants is that isreli speak for "ethnically cleansed refuges returning to their homes..". oh sure israel has lots of room for immigrants from all around the globe, but apparently no room for legitimate residents... So you're admitting that the terms of any Mideast "peace" must be the peace of the grave for Israel? just as GWB showed great courage sending thousands of American fighters to their deaths in Iraq... At least those deaths aren't certain. Most sent overseas come back alive. What are the chances of returning alive if the plane you hijack slams into a skyscraper when full of fuel? Your moral equivalence is revolting. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bud Posted September 26, 2011 Report Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) I read their declaration (link) and it actually seems good. The trick question is whether its solicitude for Israel includes recognizing it as a Jewish state when did recognizing israel as a jewish state become an obligation? is it part of any legal obligation? Edited September 26, 2011 by bud Quote http://whoprofits.org/
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