WWWTT Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Justice has estimated the figure at about $47,000,000,000 per year, not counting the $11,000,000,000 spent on security. On top of that is the not insubstantial sums spent on tracking down and arresting, representing, convicting, processing, and jailing the same guys over and over and over and over again. Not all criminals are repeat offenders, but those who are tend to use up vast amounts of resources as they go through the revolving door of the judicial system. Are you saying repeat offenders cost Canada taxpayers 47 billion dollars?I find that hard to believe! Please clarify and add a site to help verify what you are saying. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
WWWTT Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Heres a no-brainer el predicto. After Harpers new justice bills pass,there will be people charged in relation to them. Many of those people are going to stand in court in front of a judge and enter a plea of not guilty. And thats when Harpers new justice laws are going to start costing tax payers big bucks! And thats because in Canada we have this thing called the Canadian constitution,maybe you heard about it. Every judge in Canada must uphold the constitution in every trial(if asked by the defendant). If people are found not guilty(many will be many will not)then judges will then be telling the government to amend or recind the laws. Just like marihuana laws must be reformed in Canada aswell. The longer Harper preaches to us about what is evil in society(smoking weed and prostitution)the more he wastes tax payer dollars! What I don`t like is that the conservatives very well know this,but somehow they think they are doing everybody a favour by wasting tax payer dollars by congesting the justice system with some kind of witch hunt. I wish I could say that this is only my opinion,but if the conservatives do not know how our system works then we are in for some real trouble! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
eyeball Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) Many of those people are going to stand in court in front of a judge and enter a plea of not guilty. Sooner or later someone will come up with a legal argument that strikes constitutional pay dirt and in the meantime I wouldn't be surprised if a few start going on hunger strikes. A mandatory sentence for growing personal amounts of pot could easily be leveraged into both a death sentence and an ultimatum. It's only a matter of time before the government runs into someone that refuses to put up with this shit. Edited September 24, 2011 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) Drugs are the big problem. Hard drugs sap you of the ability to work even while demanding large sums of money. We ought to be forcing people into rehab, locking them up, and not letting them go until they're over whatever drug they're addicted to. But we've never put nearly as much money into rehab as we ought to have. That's a provincial responsibility, though. Add the possession manufacturing and peddling of alcohol to the criminal code and you might have a point. We've got 3 bars 2 liquor stores and a winery all within 2500 meters of our local schools. What kind of message does that send? Edited September 24, 2011 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CitizenX Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) I'll bite. What caused Clifford Olson to kill all those children? Not enough federal transfer payments for social services? I'm not an expert on Clifford Olson background. But sociopaths of this type develop through genetic traits but more importantly from early child abuse. I believe that it is important to protect society from these people. But to simply create more jails in order to lock up more people seems counter productive. It's like a person (society) developing cuts after cuts and the government simply applying more and more bandages instead of looking for the source of the cuts and therefore preventing them. Harper seems to like following the American lead even if it has proven to be a failed system. Whats next a Privatised prison system? Edited September 24, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
eyeball Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 I'm not an expert on Clifford Olson background. But sociopaths of this type develop through genetic traits but more importantly from early child abuse. I believe that it is important to protect society from these people. But to simply create more jails in order to lock up more people seems counter productive. Using people like Clifford Olsen to underscore and inflate the measures that are required to protect our communities and make them safe is completely nuts. It goes so far beyond counter productive it's insane. Bundling fear and loathing together like this to get elected is just plain wrong and dangerous. How did we ever get to a place where it would become so easy to lump pot users and Clifford Olsen together in the same breathlessly earnest entreaty to keep our communities safe? It's phenomenal. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 ...How did we ever get to a place where it would become so easy to lump pot users and Clifford Olsen together in the same breathlessly earnest entreaty to keep our communities safe? It's phenomenal. Not such a phenom....."pot users" are complicit in a high body count enterprise. Smoke on.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
CitizenX Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) How did we ever get to a place where it would become so easy to lump pot users and Clifford Olsen together in the same breathlessly earnest entreaty to keep our communities safe? It's phenomenal. Issue of real crimes like Pedifilia and paternalistic legislation have nothing to do with one another. Pedophiles need help, and society needs to be protected from them. Pot smokers need to be left the **** alone, it is their business and no one elses . Conservative simple mindedness and moral ideology is the problem. Edited September 24, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
wyly Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Pot smokers need to be left the **** alone, it is their business and no one elses . Conservative simple mindedness and moral ideology is the problem. which is why our electoral system must change, conservative moral ideology does not reflect the majority of canadians...a moralistic/religious conservative minority is unfairly shaping our country in it's own image... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
lukin Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 which is why our electoral system must change, conservative moral ideology does not reflect the majority of canadians...a moralistic/religious conservative minority is unfairly shaping our country in it's own image... What a ridiculous generalization. Totally clueless. What's wrong with having morals? Quote
CitizenX Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 which is why our electoral system must change, conservative moral ideology does not reflect the majority of canadians...a moralistic/religious conservative minority is unfairly shaping our country in it's own image... Conservatives hate freedom. They are a Totalitarian group that is afraid of the people that they control. They are adverse to any change or thinking out side the box. The Liberals corruption is to blame for allowing them to take control. This country has always been left of center. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
CitizenX Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 What's wrong with having morals? There is nothing wrong with having morals. I wish conservatives had more of the morals that counted, like compassion and empathy. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
lukin Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 There is nothing wrong with having morals. I wish conservatives had more of the morals that counted, like compassion and empathy. What do you do to help the poor and downtrodden? Easy to talk about compassion...harder to actually do something about it. Much easier to criticize others, while pretending to be compassionate. Quote
Scotty Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Are you saying repeat offenders cost Canada taxpayers 47 billion dollars?I find that hard to believe! Please clarify and add a site to help verify what you are saying. WWWTT I've actually seen studies which peg it much higher, at closer to $100 billion. The costs are the cost of lost, damaged and destroyed property, medical costs of injuries, time off work, and additional costs imposed on consumers and government due to such things as insurance fraud, shoplifting and forgery. university of ottawa Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Add the possession manufacturing and peddling of alcohol to the criminal code and you might have a point. The problem is that almost everyone can consume alcohol in moderation without difficulties ensuing. The same can't be said about people who smoke crack or use heroin or meth. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Conservatives hate freedom. Yawn. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Yawn. No kidding. I hate ideologues. Quote
lukin Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 No kidding. I hate ideologues. You don't like Bob Rae? Quote
Smallc Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 You don't like Bob Rae? Bob Rae isn't an ideologue....but, I neither like nor dislike him. I agree and disagree with some of his positions. Quote
CitizenX Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 What do you do to help the poor and downtrodden? Easy to talk about compassion...harder to actually do something about it. Much easier to criticize others, while pretending to be compassionate. You must know me better than myself. So go on tell me more about how I'm pretending to be compassionate. Ohh that's right you don't know me or what I've done. Some advice for you...Know what you are talking about before you jot down your thoughts. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
CitizenX Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 Conservatives hate freedom. Yawn. Yaa I know I'm over stating the obvious. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
lukin Posted September 24, 2011 Report Posted September 24, 2011 You must know me better than myself. So go on tell me more about how I'm pretending to be compassionate. Ohh that's right you don't know me or what I've done. Some advice for you...Know what you are talking about before you jot down your thoughts. Then tell me how you go above and beyond the average Conservative to help the poor and downtrodden. I don't know you personally, but I know your hypocritical type. Quote
CitizenX Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) Then tell me how you go above and beyond the average Conservative to help the poor and downtrodden. I don't know you personally, but I know your hypocritical type. You know very little and assume a great deal. Edited September 25, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
lukin Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 You know very little and assume a great deal. Oh well, I see you can't answer a simple question. Your avoidance says a lot. Don't preach ethics to someone else until you practice what you preach. Quote
CitizenX Posted September 25, 2011 Report Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) Oh well, I see you can't answer a simple question. Your avoidance says a lot. Don't preach ethics to someone else until you practice what you preach. What does it say oh great and wise one? This forum is about politics not about me and what I do to make the world a better place. Why don't you try defending your Conservative Party and or Harper against what I have said earlier? Edited September 25, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
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