Peter Mackay is now at it too

[scribblet]

All Harper had to say about this was that McKay expenses were cheaper than the Liberals. As if they was suppose to make it alright? ...

Maybe not make it 'right' but it sure speaks to the double standards when it comes to conservatives. Where you all demanding that the Liberals pay for their usage, which was higher. the Liberals claimed that the cost to operate a Challenger was around $2,000 an hour, a lot depends on which side of the fence you're on.

Interesting that some want the Conservatives to pay, but didn't make a peep when the Liberals were doling out our taxmoney on their cross country junkets that they didn't reimburse us for. All of this is just more partisan BS from the opposition -

Most of estimated charges are a fixed cost that accrues whether the jet is flying or not, making it hard to nail down a true billable hourly rate.

Therein lies the problem, maybe the DND should be reimbursed for additional costs over and above the fixed rate but but is it fair that the party in power pay 'fixed' costs for which a budget already exists? That's like charging twice for the same thing. The PMO shouldn't have to pay back anything if jets are used for gov't business. Maybe the other ministers who use themshould pay the incremental costs if it's not government business.

if the NDP ever got into power, would they forego all of the goodies or just hitchhike, maybe just let em rust out on the tarmac.

Edited October 1, 2011 by scribblet

[Smallc]

Did you forget about this? Well, if you did, you shouldn't have....or so say Robert Fife.

http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20111005/rcaf-captain-got-challenger-medevac-vacation-injury-111005.html

I'm done with CTV.

[msj]

Did you forget about this? Well, if you did, you shouldn't have....or so say Robert Fife.

http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20111005/rcaf-captain-got-challenger-medevac-vacation-injury-111005.html

I'm done with CTV.

I really think you need to let the issue go.

[Smallc]

I really think you need to let the issue go.

Me let it go? It's CTV that won't let it go.

[msj]

Me let it go? It's CTV that won't let it go.

How is any of this not news?

Ok, fine, we can disagree on the earlier stories but the flying of the Captain?

Seriously?

You think that's not newsworthy?

You don't see why those of us who want more accountability would complain about that?

Seriously?

[Smallc]

I can see why in this case, but it's almost as if CTV is trying to latch onto something, anything. Also, again, the flight cost us absolutely nothing.

[msj]

I can see why in this case, but it's almost as if CTV is trying to latch onto something, anything. Also, again, the flight cost us absolutely nothing.

So it's okay to use taxpayer resources on the whim of senior bureaucrats because, in your opinion, the cost is minimal?

And if they did this 200 times during the year then what standards would you employ?

Captains and up? Colonels? Generals?

You honestly don't think the principle is newsworthy?

[Smallc]

After all of the other fishing relating to these jets, no, I don't think the story is newsworthy. A captain is not a senior bureaucrat, btw, and I don't necessarily support this particular use of the jet, but this is all a move by CTV to drum up ignorance. Again, they bring up the $24,000, something that has been said to be false again and again. Again, they linked it back to all of the other stories, that seemingly have nothing to do with this story.

I will, btw, bring up any topic that I like. I haven't broken any rules. If you don't like it, maybe you should just....drop it.

[Guest Derek L]

After all of the other fishing relating to these jets, no, I don't think the story is newsworthy. A captain is not a senior bureaucrat, btw, and I don't necessarily support this particular use of the jet, but this is all a move by CTV to drum up ignorance. Again, they bring up the $24,000, something that has been said to be false again and again. Again, they linked it back to all of the other stories, that seemingly have nothing to do with this story.

I will, btw, bring up any topic that I like. I haven't broken any rules. If you don't like it, maybe you should just....drop it.

Exactly………The provincial governments will arrange for private flights of injured Canadians from the States……..The forces don’t fall under provincial jurisdiction……..And members of the forces will get medical treatment through military doctors and dentists………So a Canadian military member being flown back to Canada, then treated in a base hospital isn’t that surprising………I agree, this is another simple fishing expedition………

I wonder what their budget is...

[Smallc]

I wonder what their budget is...

I don't know about theirs, but I know that Manitoba's, with 1 helicopter, 2 jets, and about 6 part time chartered air planes is in the tens of millions.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Smallc

[Guest Derek L]

I don't know about theirs, but I know that Manitoba's, with 1 helicopter, 2 jets, and about 6 part time chartered air planes is in the tens of millions.

Exactly, and I don’t begrudge British Columbians that are forced to utilise this service.

[msj]

After all of the other fishing relating to these jets, no, I don't think the story is newsworthy. A captain is not a senior bureaucrat, btw, and I don't necessarily support this particular use of the jet, but this is all a move by CTV to drum up ignorance. Again, they bring up the $24,000, something that has been said to be false again and again. Again, they linked it back to all of the other stories, that seemingly have nothing to do with this story.

I will, btw, bring up any topic that I like. I haven't broken any rules. If you don't like it, maybe you should just....drop it.

I never suggested that you have broken any rules.

Why so touchy?

As for being "ignorant" - once again, do you not see the principle that blueblood and I are applying here?

As for being a Captain - yes, that does seem like an awfully low rank to justify the use of the planes.

But I don't think the Captain should have to pay given the circumstances.

I do think that those who ordered this up should pay - either for the cost of the flight.

As for the cost being $24,000 - well, let's just say that we can ignore depreciation/amortization of the cost of the plane all you want, but at the rate Mackay and all are using them eventually that cost will need to be borne out with a new airplane on order.

[msj]

I don't know about theirs, but I know that Manitoba's, with 1 helicopter, 2 jets, and about 6 part time chartered air planes is in the tens of millions.

So a Captain on vacation in the US is not a Canadian? Or a British Columbian or Manitobian? Or whatever?

I mean, WTF?

What other excuses are you guys going to come up with to justify the use of these planes for other than important government service?

Once again, it's the principle.

If the Captain is to be air-lifted to Canada then it should be under existing programs and rules to do so.

Not some, oh, I have friends in really high places who can call up a Challenger jet kind of deal.

Although, to be fair, it appears that the Captain didn't call it up which is why I wouldn't want him to pay any cost to this.

[Guest Derek L]

So a Captain on vacation in the US is not a Canadian? Or a British Columbian or Manitobian? Or whatever?

I mean, WTF?

What other excuses are you guys going to come up with to justify the use of these planes for other than important government service?

Once again, it's the principle.

If the Captain is to be air-lifted to Canada then it should be under existing programs and rules to do so.

Not some, oh, I have friends in really high places who can call up a Challenger jet kind of deal.

Although, to be fair, it appears that the Captain didn't call it up which is why I wouldn't want him to pay any cost to this.

Well serving in the forces, the members aren’t covered under the provincial MSP…..hence federal involvement.

[Smallc]

I never suggested that you have broken any rules.

Why so touchy?

You told me to drop it. I don't think that I should have to.

[msj]

You told me to drop it. I don't think that I should have to.

Tone doesn't carry very well.

It wasn't a mean "drop it" but more of a good natured "hey, relax and drop it" kind of thing.

[msj]

Well serving in the forces, the members aren’t covered under the provincial MSP…..hence federal involvement.

I have my doubts on this.

In BC, Canadian Forces personnel are supposed to indicate on the Fair Pharmacare form if they are Canadian Forces.

Maybe someone in BC in the healthcare sector knows more about this.

Of course, this ignores Hunter's own words about not asking for the flight and also ignores other options such as taking an ambulance ride.

But hey, I guess the first thing they think of is: are the jets ready to go?

[Guest Derek L]

I have my doubts on this.

In BC, Canadian Forces personnel are supposed to indicate on the Fair Pharmacare form if they are Canadian Forces.

Maybe someone in BC in the healthcare sector knows more about this.

Of course, this ignores Hunter's own words about not asking for the flight and also ignores other options such as taking an ambulance ride.

But hey, I guess the first thing they think of is: are the jets ready to go?

Being as I’m a BC resident, and formerly served with the air force, in both Nova Scotia and British Columbia and my wife is a dentist in the province, I’ll tell you, you’re full of crap.

Spouses and dependants can be covered under the provincial plan or the federal plan (same with RCMP), after three months service.

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/benefits-98

[Smallc]

Tone doesn't carry very well.

It wasn't a mean "drop it" but more of a good natured "hey, relax and drop it" kind of thing.

Sorry, I guess I took that the wrong way.

[jacee]

The difference between, you, myself, my wife, G bambino and the MND/CDS/PM is that we don’t have the same level of responsibility to the country s they………..If a natural disaster/terror attack/war/economic collapse etc occur when we’re on vacation, the nation isn’t looking to us……….

You’re right, them paying commercial airfare is purely optics……….poor optics……….If an RCMP member stops at a Tim Horton’s for lunch, should we charge him a percentage of the monthly gas bill for his cruiser? What about fireman having a movie channel at the fire station? Or solders/sailors/airmen having internet access on DND computers well over seas?

Should we, as taxpayers, really pick-up the cost our politician’s personal protection details? I heard those RCMP members get free meals………..Or why have the House of Parliament? Couldn’t our Mps just meet at a convention center? Winnipeg has a new one………

I think those calling for this are being purely partisan and petty………

What did Jack Layton’s state funeral cost us?

Ask Harper.

So ... all the perks are ok with you as long as you don't have to pay the taxes to support them ?

Edited October 7, 2011 by jacee

[Guest Derek L]

Ask Harper.

So ... all the perks are ok with you as long as you don't have to pay the taxes to support them ?

One persons “perks” are another persons “pain in the ass”……..As I’ve said before, I’ve no problem paying taxes, but for the umpteen time, if the rates are to go up, it should be an equal increase across the board.

[msj]

Being as I’m a BC resident, and formerly served with the air force, in both Nova Scotia and British Columbia and my wife is a dentist in the province, I’ll tell you, you’re full of crap.

Spouses and dependants can be covered under the provincial plan or the federal plan (same with RCMP), after three months service.

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/benefits-98

Fair enough.

I didn't realize Challenger jets acting as air ambulances was part of the extended health package.

[Smallc]

Fair enough.

I didn't realize Challenger jets acting as air ambulances was part of the extended health package.

To be fair, they often act as air ambulances, as 3 of them are configured to be used as such.

[Guest Derek L]

Fair enough.

I didn't realize Challenger jets acting as air ambulances was part of the extended health package.

As with the link I posted earlier, my province, along with I assume most others, operate an air ambulance service.

http://www.bcas.ca/EN/main/services/air-ambulance.html

As you can see in the link, the Province of British Columbia’s service with it’s 6 fixed winged aircraft is on par with 412 squadron……not to mention all the charters paid for by the province……..If you look at as a purely business & dollars perspective……It’s cheaper to fly a stable patient from the States than it is to leave them there for recovery……….Whether the bill is being paid for by a Province or DND, the point is moot.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Derek L

[msj]

As you can see in the link, the Province of British Columbia’s service with it’s 6 fixed winged aircraft is on par with 412 squadron……not to mention all the charters paid for by the province……..If you look at as a purely business & dollars perspective……It’s cheaper to fly a stable patient from the States than it is to leave them there for recovery……….Whether the bill is being paid for by a Province or DND, the point is moot.

And you continue to ignore the comparison to other modes of transportation which would likely be cheaper.

Even at that, the dollar amount may be moot, but the principle certainly isn't.

These are not private aircraft to be used willy nilly by our political/bureaucratic masters and, yet, that's exactly how they are used.