Peter Mackay is now at it too

[msj]

There's no evidence Mackay is lying.

Is that a fact or your opinion?

Then you are not in the same situation and cannot "mingle" personal and business as the afore named individuals must.

Nonsense.

I bump into clients all the time.

Even on vacation I have bumped into them and then I'm "on" and giving them some kind of tax advice.

Of course, as a business owner I also check my email, take phone calls, do video conferencing etc... while on personal vacation so, yes, I do co-mingle personal and business on a regular basis.

It's possible. But, why require this of them? As I said, these people are never really on vacation.

Neither am I so I suppose you'd be ok if I deducted my vacation as a business expense?

This reminds me of people demanding the Queen pay for repairs to Windsor Castle after it suffered a major fire. It's not her private property; she occupies it as a public servant and uses it for head of state activities. Yet, she was expected to pay millions out of her own purse to fix the place up.

Not the same situation.

[g_bambino]

Is that a fact.

It is. Unless I've missed something. If I have, please direct me towards the evidence that Mackay lied.

Nonsense.

You said you weren't an important player in the governance of the country.

[Smallc]

Of course, as a business owner I also check my email, take phone calls, do video conferencing etc... while on personal vacation so, yes, I do co-mingle personal and business on a regular basis.

I'm in the same situation....I'm still no the CDS.

[msj]

So, I take it that Mackay et al can get shuttled around because they are VIP's?

So Harper should not have reimbursed us for his personal trip to Boston because he is a VIP and, therefore, always working?

Sure, we can disagree about the "facts" or interpretation of the "facts" about Mackay all we want but I would like to know what GB and Smallc think about this.

[Smallc]

So, I take it that Mackay et al can get shuttled around because they are VIP's?

In his case, it's because he should always be within contact.

So Harper should not have reimbursed us for his personal trip to Boston because he is a VIP and, therefore, always working?

He only does it to look good, but he shouldn't do it, because there's no reason for it. He's the leader of the government, and he can't travel any other way.

[msj]

He only does it to look good, but he shouldn't do it, because there's no reason for it. He's the leader of the government, and he can't travel any other way.

I have no problem with VIP's using taxpayer subsidized transportation.

It is that when they use it for something that is personal they reimburse the taxpayers the equivalent cost of an Air Canada ticket. So Harper may have cost us $7 or $8,000 but at least he reimbursed us $1,000.

So, are you saying that Harper et al. should be shuttled around for personal travel all on the taxpayers dime?

If so, where do you draw the line at VIP status?

PM, cabinet ministers, leader of Official Opposition are probably a given.

Deputy ministers, the CDS and high mucky mucks like Mark Carney too I suppose.

Who else?

[Smallc]

The PM, the GG, the Royals, very specific ministers (finance right now, MND, public safety, transport - all should never be out of contact), the CDS, and other high level DND officials.

[msj]

The PM, the GG, the Royals, very specific ministers (finance right now, MND, public safety, transport - all should never be out of contact), the CDS, and other high level DND officials.

Okay, why didn't you say so!

We disagree on this and that's that.

[g_bambino]

We disagree on this...

And I'm not sure how you can disagree. How can you expect the prime minister to be out of contact, for any length of time? Or unprotected? Ditto for the CDS, the Queen, the GG, etc. (Other royals can be; they've no governmental role.)

[Topaz]

One question have is, why did the GG, Mackay and the head of the military all three, took different planes from Ottawa to Trenton, On to meet a plane coming back from Afghanistan with a soldier on board. Couldn't they have taken ONE plane? Apparently, they each left minutes from each other. I think this government needs solar planes to cutting down on the expenses.

[Smallc]

One question have is, why did the GG, Mackay and the head of the military all three, took different planes from Ottawa to Trenton, On to meet a plane coming back from Afghanistan with a soldier on board. Couldn't they have taken ONE plane? Apparently, they each left minutes from each other. I think this government needs solar planes to cutting down on the expenses.

No. Do you remember what happened last year in Russia, when you had the heads of the (Polish) military and the president on the same plane...and they all died? Besides that, their schedules don't necessarily coincide.

Also, the GG was coming from Newfoundland, not Ottawa.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Smallc

[msj]

And I'm not sure how you can disagree. How can you expect the prime minister to be out of contact, for any length of time? Or unprotected? Ditto for the CDS, the Queen, the GG, etc. (Other royals can be; they've no governmental role.)

Just because he is in contact does not mean that he is not on vacation.

[Smallc]

And in case you forgot....Peter Mackay.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110928/ctv-probe-reveals-peter-mackays-three-million-dollar-jet-tab-110928/

HE'S THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL DEFENCE. GIVE IT A REST.

[msj]

And in case you forgot....Peter Mackay.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110928/ctv-probe-reveals-peter-mackays-three-million-dollar-jet-tab-110928/

HE'S THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL DEFENCE. GIVE IT A REST.

Not sure why you need to use the capitals. Why the yelling?

Some people are going to think like me on this issue - that Mackay is special some of the time and deserves to use the jets but other times he's not so special and should give us taxpayers a break.

WE KNOW HE'S THE MND SO WHY DON'T YOU GIVE US A REST?

Pardon the caps but the rudeness is well earned on your part.

Edited September 29, 2011 by msj

[blueblood]

And in case you forgot....Peter Mackay.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110928/ctv-probe-reveals-peter-mackays-three-million-dollar-jet-tab-110928/

HE'S THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL DEFENCE. GIVE IT A REST.

I'm with MSJ on this one. We all know he's a VIP and gets access to the cool plane nothing wrong with that. What is wrong with him stepping up when the govt is cutting back and paying the govt the cost of an air canada ticket to show the voting public that the govt is serious about being fiscally responsible. The planes still get to have their hours and there is a fair and symbolic compensation for personal travel at market rates.

If these guys at 6 digit salaries can't swing a plane ticket, its time they visit an accountant.

[Smallc]

Why should they pay for a plane ticket when they're working? The Minister of National Defence in this situation is just like the CDS, he should, while at work, rarely be out of communications range. The operation in Haiti happened as quickly as it did because both the PM and MND had access to secure communications on Challenger aircraft. This isn't about him being a VIP. Honestly, if people are buying into this media circus, they aren't using their heads.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Smallc

[g_bambino]

Just because he is in contact does not mean that he is not on vacation.

It somewhat does; he's still on duty even when on vacation. He could be called upon in an instant.

If he were on a Challenger on his way to a holiday in the Queen Charlotte Islands and he received a call from the prime minister, would he no longer have to make the token payment for the flight? Or, would the cost per minute of an Air Canada flight be calculated and the overall amount reduced by the time Mackay spent on the phone?

What time and effort spent trying to figure out how to construct a pointless charade.

[Oleg Bach]

Just wanted to be the first to say that Peter Mackay sold out the Progressive Conservatives for a taxpayer funded helicopter ride!

Seems like there's a lot of taxpayer subsidized rides for VIP's lately.

Having been in Belinda Stronach's home doing a bit of decorating - and watching her from an insiders point of view - anyone that would even consider dating this light weight - which from what I understand McKay did - really has a shallow out look on the material world - McKay seems to take riches and luxury a little too seriously - I am sure he got a pudge on riding around in a big miliary bird and feeling important - This shows his disrespect and disconnet to the public at large.

[g_bambino]

This shows his disrespect and disconnet to the public at large.

Yeah, sure it does.

[blueblood]

Why should they pay for a plane ticket when they're working? The Minister of National Defence in this situation is just like the CDS, he should, while at work, rarely be out of communications range. The operation in Haiti happened as quickly as it did because both the PM and MND had access to secure communications on Challenger aircraft. This isn't about him being a VIP. Honestly, if people are buying into this media circus, they aren't using their heads.

This isn't about when they are doing their jobs, its the going to the carribean and vacations, sporting events (a grey area), and non work related flights. What's so hard about writing the govt a check for the amount of an air canada ticket? If harper can do it, the others can get their ass in line. This is about optics.

If you can't afford a plane ticket on a six digit salary, you can't afford a vacation in the carribean.

[Smallc]

None of them were off duty during the flights. All of the flights were work related.

[blueblood]

None of them were off duty during the flights. All of the flights were work related.

Just like tiger woods doesn't get a night off as well then.

Was there DND business in the carribean when the CDS went there to join his family on holiday? The argument isn't whether he needs the challenger or not. As a VIP he needs to be in contact and security. The argument is that when he needs to go on vacation, why doesn't he just be a man and compensate the govt for the cost of an air canada ticket for optics sake? Its like taking a company vehicle out to the cottage and not having the courtesy to fill it up with gas when your done with it.

[Smallc]

The CDS had already paid for a plane ticket. It was wasted because he had to attend a repatriation ceremony. Because he had missed his commercial flight because of work, he was allowed to take the challenger.

More than that though, I'm not sure what the point is in making people pay for a trip that quite literally costs the taxpayer nothing. I can't believe that people are buying into this non issue.

[Oleg Bach]

Yeah, sure it does.

Like I said about birds of a feather flock together - McKay kept the company of Belinda - She thinks she has class..but has a nova-rich mentality...she holds those with less money in contempt and believes the world is her stock of slaves - McKay you would expect would be above such trivial and shallow nonsense - but apparently not. He evidently believes that being in government means that you are not a servant but the public is are your servants - for instance Prime Minister literally means "first servant" too the people - the principle of service must be adhered to by our elected representatives - McKays attitude is back wards and not very sophisticated.

To spend OUR money in a manner that causes more and more taxing of the people - is an indirect attempt to enslave the Canadian population. These people do not get the idea of what service is..they suffer from blind pride...the same stupid blind pride McKay displayed when he had the photo ops with the great man's man..the former Colonel Russell Williams - who in the end turned out not to be the man's man - but the murdering under wear sniffing freak..poor judgement and the clouding of the mind through blind pride and arrogance is not acceptable.

[Topaz]

All Harper had to say about this was that McKay expenses were cheaper than the Liberals. As if they was suppose to make it alright? Please! MacKay seems to have a system were when he can use his vacation within his duties to make things look on the level to use the plane at his beckon call. The life of the rich and famous. I wonder if he'll change his ways now?