Peter Mackay is now at it too

[Smallc]

They're going to get someone fired, dammit...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/09/29/pol-mckay-jets-costs.html

That didn't work? Well, how about this?!!!!

[Guest Derek L]

They're going to get someone fired, dammit...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/09/29/pol-mckay-jets-costs.html

That didn't work? Well, how about this?!!!!

Strap on your tin-foil:

Funny how these news stories were released shortly after Lieutenant General Leslie’s report on downsizing NDHQ……..

[blueblood]

The CDS had already paid for a plane ticket. It was wasted because he had to attend a repatriation ceremony. Because he had missed his commercial flight because of work, he was allowed to take the challenger.

More than that though, I'm not sure what the point is in making people pay for a trip that quite literally costs the taxpayer nothing. I can't believe that people are buying into this non issue.

TS, other people miss flights for things that come up with work and have to buy yet another ticket or in the CDS case cut the feds a check. S*** happens.

This is all about optics. We have the govt flat out telling canadians to increase their savings and reduce debt, it would make for good optics for these people to man up and pay standard commercial rates for personal travel. If the govt is looking to cut costs and improve effeciency they can start with themselves. Harper mans up, why don't the others?

[Smallc]

TS, other people miss flights for things that come up with work and have to buy yet another ticket or in the CDS case cut the feds a check. S*** happens.

Other people aren't the Chief of the Defence Staff. The fight was work related, and the minister signed off on it. That should be the end of the story. The CDS is pretty much always on duty. He works tirelessly for the Canadian Forces and the Canadian people. If he had to miss the beginning of his vacation to attend the repatriation of soldiers and other Canadians, I think we owe him at least the benefit of the doubt here. There was nothing wrong with what he did.

BTW, this government has been reducing its deficit. That's the optic that matters.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Smallc

[blueblood]

Other people aren't the Chief of the Defence Staff. The fight was work related, and the minister signed off on it. That should be the end of the story. The CDS is pretty much always on duty. He works tirelessly for the Canadian Forces and the Canadian people. If he had to miss the beginning of his vacation to attend the repatriation of soldiers and other Canadians, I think we owe him at least the benefit of the doubt here. There was nothing wrong with what he did.

BTW, this government has been reducing its deficit. That's the optic that matters.

And what's harper, chopped liver? He manages to pay commercial rates for personal use, isn't harper pretty much always on duty?

That deficit can always go down faster...

[msj]

This isn't about him being a VIP. Honestly, if people are buying into this media circus, they aren't using their heads.

I think you should stop insulting people merely because you disagree with their opinion.

[Guest Derek L]

And what's harper, chopped liver? He manages to pay commercial rates for personal use, isn't harper pretty much always on duty?

That deficit can always go down faster...

The CDS isn’t an elected official……….If found that he broke any rules, he’s already stated he’d pay the commercial equivalent back………If it’s determined he didn’t break any rules he won’t……..If you don’t like it, elect someone that will change the rules.

How many members of Parliament have access to a car service? The Speaker of the House gets a rent & car allowance……….perhaps that should be changed also

Mackay makes what? 200-250k a year? So what………He’s a lawyer, it was probably a pay-cut…….My wife makes more than him…..she’s a dentist………I love her, but in terms of all Canadians, Peter Mackay has more responsibilities and influence related to a great many people’s day-day lives then her by many orders of magnitude………I’d be pissed off if our Leaders, Cabinet members and senior civil servants were waiting a few hours in an airport terminal for a delayed flight, and not doing their jobs, for the sake of “optics”.

[Smallc]

I think you should stop insulting people merely because you disagree with their opinion.

But see, that's just the thing, these aren't my opinions. This is absolute silliness. It has to do with people being jealous, and wanting a better place in the world. It also has to do with people' instinctive nature to think that politicians are doing something wrong. It also has to do with a media circus that has ignored facts at every turn.

The reality is, there is no evidence that there was any wrongdoing, or that any of the flights were personal. You're right, I do disagree with other people's opinions...but that's because they aren't based on facts. It isn't because I think that people are being necessarily stupid either, they've simply bought into something from the media that isn't really based on anything.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Smallc

[g_bambino]

I'm not sure what the point is in making people pay for a trip that quite literally costs the taxpayer nothing. I can't believe that people are buying into this non issue.

You should repeat that, over and over.

Someone said here that the ministers paying for "personal" flights (though, there really is no such thing) is about optics. In fact, it's optics over optics: pay for the flights so as to be seen as deferent to the taxpayer, because the taxpayer can only see the flights as a waste of his taxes. It's almost embarrassingly stupid.

[sp]

Edited September 30, 2011 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

I do disagree with other people's opinions...but that's because they aren't based on facts. It isn't because I think that people are being necessarily stupid either, they've simply bought into something from the media that isn't really based on anything.

Quite right.

[Keepitsimple]

People should remember that the media is always out to stir up controversy - to make mountains out of molehills. They do it to increase viewership or readership. That's what it's all about. Sometimes a story has substance - many more times it's just fluff. They don't just report the news - they look for ways to create it. People should read every article with a degree of cynicism.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Keepitsimple

[Shakeyhands]

You should repeat that, over and over.

Someone said here that the ministers paying for "personal" flights (though, there really is no such thing) is about optics. In fact, it's optics over optics: pay for the flights so as to be seen as deferent to the taxpayer, because the taxpayer can only see the flights as a waste of his taxes. It's almost embarrassingly stupid.

[sp]

Why the bruhaha then when Harper was screaming about the Liberals doing it?

[ToadBrother]

Why the bruhaha then when Harper was screaming about the Liberals doing it?

Because that's what opposition parties do. It's the hypocrisy inherent in adversarial political systems.

[Shakeyhands]

Because that's what opposition parties do. It's the hypocrisy inherent in adversarial political systems.

I'd guess then that those complaining about the complaining should just suck it up then. Eh?

[waldo]

People should remember that the media is always out to stir up controversy - to make mountains out of molehills. They do it to increase viewership or readership. That's what it's all about. Sometimes a story has substance - many more times it's just fluff. They don't just report the news - they look for ways to create it. People should read every article with a degree of cynicism.

oh my! Bookmarked for posterity sake, particularly when you trot out the next National Post 'silver bullet', "AGW killer", ala Solomon, Gunter, etc.

[g_bambino]

Why the bruhaha then when Harper was screaming about the Liberals doing it?

I don't know what bruhaha you're referring to, exactly; but, all parties are guilty of hypocricy in this matter.

[Guest Derek L]

Wow, even the Star has noticed it...

The steady drip, drip of leaks and allegations about his high-flying use of government aircraft and search-and-rescue helicopters while on vacation can bring one to no other conclusion.

The who and why are tougher to divine.

Over the years, the defence minister has collected an impressive list of political rivals and detractors who would be easy suspects in this latest assault.

But all roads appear to head back to the bloated bureaucracy of the Department of National Defence, where factions are protecting turf, bracing for future cuts and fighting over the future of the force.

The report that threatened the status quo at a string of DND civilian posts, home to more than 12,000 personnel, was written by Andrew Leslie.

I've been saying this since the first story broke......*pats self on back*

But one only need to look at the apocalyptic language used in the debate over the Leslie report for clues.

Leslie warned the Harper government that if his deep cuts are not implemented, it will eventually lead to “mission failure” of the Canadian Forces.

Retired Gen. Rick Hillier has said if Leslie’s recommendations were to be implemented “you destroy the Canadian military.’’

The stakes are high and the minister is in the gun sights.

A good piece by Tim Harper............The real intresting part of the story, is not what and who flew where, but why is it being "reported"?

[blueblood]

The CDS isn’t an elected official……….If found that he broke any rules, he’s already stated he’d pay the commercial equivalent back………If it’s determined he didn’t break any rules he won’t……..If you don’t like it, elect someone that will change the rules.

How many members of Parliament have access to a car service? The Speaker of the House gets a rent & car allowance……….perhaps that should be changed also

Mackay makes what? 200-250k a year? So what………He’s a lawyer, it was probably a pay-cut…….My wife makes more than him…..she’s a dentist………I love her, but in terms of all Canadians, Peter Mackay has more responsibilities and influence related to a great many people’s day-day lives then her by many orders of magnitude………I’d be pissed off if our Leaders, Cabinet members and senior civil servants were waiting a few hours in an airport terminal for a delayed flight, and not doing their jobs, for the sake of “optics”.

I didn't say anything about not being able to use the challengers. I'm saying if they are going to fly them out to the carribean or use a search and rescue chopper to go to a cabin, to man up and pay the govt a check based on commercial rates, if they can't afford the cost of a plane ticket, maybe a vacation isn't a good idea.

G bambino, is taking a company vehicle up to a lake front cottage and burning the company's gas a waste of company's money?

[Oleg Bach]

Big shot - He has that aquiline Roman aristocratic nose - it might be a genetic problem - kind of like a re-incarnatied Caligula....the nose says all........................only the spoiled rats and oppressors had noses like hawks -

[g_bambino]

G bambino, is taking a company vehicle up to a lake front cottage and burning the company's gas a waste of company's money?

When you're doing company work in the company car, no.

[Guest Derek L]

I didn't say anything about not being able to use the challengers. I'm saying if they are going to fly them out to the carribean or use a search and rescue chopper to go to a cabin, to man up and pay the govt a check based on commercial rates, if they can't afford the cost of a plane ticket, maybe a vacation isn't a good idea.

G bambino, is taking a company vehicle up to a lake front cottage and burning the company's gas a waste of company's money?

The difference between, you, myself, my wife, G bambino and the MND/CDS/PM is that we don’t have the same level of responsibility to the country as they………..If a natural disaster/terror attack/war/economic collapse etc occur when we’re on vacation, the nation isn’t looking to us……….

You’re right, them paying commercial airfare is purely optics……….poor optics……….If an RCMP member stops at a Tim Horton’s for lunch, should we charge him a percentage of the monthly gas bill for his cruiser? What about fireman having a movie channel at the fire station? Or solders/sailors/airmen having internet access on DND computers well over seas?

Should we, as taxpayers, really pick-up the cost our politician’s personal protection details? I heard those RCMP members get free meals………..Or why have the House of Parliament? Couldn’t our Mps just meet at a convention center? Winnipeg has a new one………

I think those calling for this are being purely partisan and petty………

What did Jack Layton’s state funeral cost us?

Edited October 1, 2011 by Derek L

[Smallc]

Winnipeg has a new one………

Not yet.

[Guest Derek L]

Not yet.

Thought they did.........Well better yet, make Parliament meet in Winnipeg’s old convention center……….We (Vancouver) have a new one, but it’s much to ritzy for the likes of mere Members of Parliament

[ToadBrother]

I'd guess then that those complaining about the complaining should just suck it up then. Eh?

First of all, I haven't been convinced Mackay has done anything wrong. Second of all, I didn't say that. What I said, if you read, is that Opposition parties always do this sort of thing, right up until the minute they become a government.

[Smallc]

And of course, who else can you target?

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1061582

Why the Commissioner of the RCMP, of course.