Markets to crash today at open

[Bonam]

It's gonna open 3% below yesterday's close and probably keep plunging from there. I foresee excellent buying opportunities in next little while as solid companies get extremely oversold. Now's the time to be making money off the chaos.

[maple_leafs182]

Personally, I would stay out of the market. I don't see any reason why people would invest in the market unless a lot more money is pumped into the economy which will temporarily bump stocks up again. Maybe if you are good at short term trading.

I would rather stick with gold and silver if you are going mid-long term.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's gonna open 3% below yesterday's close and probably keep plunging from there. I foresee excellent buying opportunities in next little while as solid companies get extremely oversold. Now's the time to be making money off the chaos.

Agreed.....I'm buying on the cheap right now. Gold and silver buyers will never get a "ten bagger"!

[maple_leafs182]

Agreed.....I'm buying on the cheap right now. Gold and silver buyers will never get a "ten bagger"!

So how are the world stock markets doing this year? I think all except 2 are in the negative, but that might of changed.

[bush_cheney2004]

So how are the world stock markets doing this year? I think all except 2 are in the negative, but that might of changed.

Doesn't matter to me...buy on bad news...sell on good. Rinse and repeat....makes more money than sitting on a pot of gold.

[maple_leafs182]

Doesn't matter to me...buy on bad news...sell on good. Rinse and repeat....makes more money than sitting on a pot of gold.

If your good at short term buying then knock yourself out. I wouldn't hold on to those stocks for the long term though.

[Sir Bandelot]

Yes, these sunshiny stories must mean it's good news for investors in the economy.

Double-plus good

[Guest Derek L]

I took the day, and have been in constant contact with my Wood Gundy adviser......

[Guest Derek L]

If your good at short term buying then knock yourself out. I wouldn't hold on to those stocks for the long term though.

Nah, buy 30 & 10 year treasury bonds...think long-game

[Bonam]

If your good at short term buying then knock yourself out. I wouldn't hold on to those stocks for the long term though.

A lot of blue chip companies, whose profits have only been on the rise for the last 3 years, are selling for the lowest prices since early 2009. That also means their dividend yields are quite high right now, with many solid companies yielding 3-5%. People who bought in Jan 2009 and held saw their money double in 2 years. We're not quite as low, but today and next few days are great long term entry points. That being said, if you wanted to trade short term markets the last few days it would definitely have been by shorting stocks, not buying them. I did that a bit and made a little profit, but I don't risk too much capital shorting.

[Bonam]

Yes, these sunshiny stories must mean it's good news for investors in the economy.

Double-plus good

Not "investors". Traders. Buying stocks and holding them as the rug gets pulled out from under the markets is not smart. Buying stocks after they hit major lows, on the other hand, is smart.

[Sir Bandelot]

Not "investors". Traders. Buying stocks and holding them as the rug gets pulled out from under the markets is not smart. Buying stocks after they hit major lows, on the other hand, is smart.

Thanks, but I'll stick with what I've already got. I prefer to make a living with the production of my own two hands and brain. Money changers, be damned...

[maple_leafs182]

A lot of blue chip companies, whose profits have only been on the rise for the last 3 years, are selling for the lowest prices since early 2009. That also means their dividend yields are quite high right now, with many solid companies yielding 3-5%. People who bought in Jan 2009 and held saw their money double in 2 years. We're not quite as low, but today and next few days are great long term entry points. That being said, if you wanted to trade short term markets the last few days it would definitely have been by shorting stocks, not buying them. I did that a bit and made a little profit, but I don't risk too much capital shorting.

K, do what you wanna do. I stay away from the stock market, to me it is gambling, the only gambling I do is poker.

[Bonam]

Thanks, but I'll stick with what I've already got. I prefer to make a living with the production of my own two hands and brain.

What do you think one uses to trade/invest if not one's hands and brain?

[maple_leafs182]

Nah, buy 30 & 10 year treasury bonds...think long-game

The Fed just announced it was going to use the money it had in short term treasury bills and invest it into long term bonds to keep long term interest rates down and bring short term interest rates up. Might not be a good time to buy long term.

Edited September 23, 2011 by maple_leafs182

[Guest Derek L]

The Fed just announced it was going to use the money it had in short term treasury bills and invest it into long term bonds to keep long term interest rates down and bring short term interest rates up. Might not be a good time to buy long term.

What were you doing 30 years ago? Did the following 30 years play out as expected? Who knows where we'll be in a year or two........

[Bonam]

The Fed just announced it was going to use the money it had in short term treasury bills and invest it into long term bonds to keep long term interest rates down and bring short term interest rates up. Might not be a good time to buy long term.

The fed buying long term bonds means the price of those bonds went up. That's how the interest rate (yield) on them gets reduced.

[maple_leafs182]

What were you doing 30 years ago?

30 years ago...not born yet.

Did the following 30 years play out as expected?

Well I haven't really payed much attention to the economy until about 3-4 years ago and since then it has gone exactly the direction I expected.

Who knows where we'll be in a year or two........

One thing I learned is don't believe what Ben Bernake or what governments have to says about the future of the economy. I try to listen to the people who predicted the recession in '08 and who have been pretty bang on in predicting what the economy would look like now.

People Like Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente, and Jim Rogers...people who clearly understand the economy since they have been consistently right. They all see the economy getting worse over time.

[Guest Derek L]

30 years ago...not born yet.

Well 30 years ago I’d decided that I was going to marry Suzanne Somers…….I won’t hold it against you

Well I haven't really payed much attention to the economy until about 3-4 years ago and since then it has gone exactly the direction I expected.

Fair enough, but as an example, look at the ebb and flow of the world economy for the last 30 years

One thing I learned is don't believe what Ben Bernake or what governments have to says about the future of the economy. I try to listen to the people who predicted the recession in '08 and who have been pretty bang on in predicting what the economy would look like now.

People Like Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente, and Jim Rogers...people who clearly understand the economy since they have been consistently right. They all see the economy getting worse over time.

Again fair point. Trying to predict where we’ll be in 2041 (drooling on myself?) is a mugs game……but you can guarantee that there will be numerous peaks and valleys along the way…….My hunch, the United States will still be one of, if not the, top performing economy in that time.

[maple_leafs182]

Again fair point. Trying to predict where we’ll be in 2041 (drooling on myself?) is a mugs game……but you can guarantee that there will be numerous peaks and valleys along the way…….My hunch, the United States will still be one of, if not the, top performing economy in that time.

I will make my prediction for the near future. Since the US dollar is showing a lot of strength right now, I think that will be enough for Bernake to continue on with his weak dollar policies. I have been saying that there would be a QE3 by end of this year and I will stick to that...it might not be called QE3 but there will be a large amount of dollars injected into the economy at some point.

[eyeball]

...it might not be called QE3 but there will be a large amount of dollars injected into the economy at some point.

I caught you knockin'

at my cellar door

I love you, baby,

can I have some more

[jacee]

Gone, gone

The damage done.

[Guest Derek L]

Gone, gone

The damage done.

I always preferred:

[Scotty]

Not "investors". Traders. Buying stocks and holding them as the rug gets pulled out from under the markets is not smart. Buying stocks after they hit major lows, on the other hand, is smart.

Someone told me Research in Motion was a great stock with plenty of upside. It's worth about a quarter of what I paid for it now.

Manulife was way down, and had, according to some people, solved many of its problems and was way oversold. It's down about 50% since I bought it.

I heard Inmet mining was a steal at the prices it had fallen to. It's dropped about 20% THIS WEEK.

My mother bought Nortel after it had dropped almost 20% - down to about $95. She said buy and hold long term. Well, guess what? She rode it all the way down to the ground.

It's easy to say buy when a stock is hit hard, and easy to say hold on while it drops -- when it's someone else's money. When it's yours and you're not rich and had to work for that money it's a hell of a lot more difficult.

The market was down over 400 points on very little hard news. If Greece defaults I'm betting the market plunges at least 1000 points.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Scotty

[Bonam]

Someone told me Research in Motion was a great stock with plenty of upside. It's worth about a quarter of what I paid for it now.

Manulife was way down, and had, according to some people, solved many of its problems and was way oversold. It's down about 50% since I bought it.

I heard Inmet mining was a steal at the prices it had fallen to. It's dropped about 20% THIS WEEK.

My mother bought Nortel after it had dropped almost 20% - down to about $95. She said buy and hold long term. Well, guess what? She rode it all the way down to the ground.

My parents did the same thing with a stock, lost $40k, about 15 years ago. Bad plan. Very bad. You don't just sit there and watch a stock evaporate and lose money. A disciplined trader will exit a position that goes against them by a predefined amount.

By the way, those companies you mentioned, I'd strongly suggest you not just sit there like a dear in the headlights and watch your investment go to zero. If you can't bear to sell them now, then at least next time the market bounces, you should get out of those positions while at least some of your investment is still there. Even if you've lost thousands, there are thousands still left, and there's no reason to lose them too.

RIM has lost its technological edge as every other company and its mother has started putting out devices with equal or better capabilities. iphones, Android phones, and others have eaten away almost all of Blackberry's market share with consumers, and remaining use is mostly in the corporate and government world, which continue to use Blackberry simply because of long term corporate contracts. Many of these are expiring within the next few years, and many large corporations will switch away from Blackberries to more mainstream platforms like Android, Windows Phone 7, and iPhone, and this process may well be the death blow for RIM. Its recent release of the "playbook" was a flop. Upside is very limited, unless it gets a miracle along the lines of Apple getting Steve Jobs as its CEO back in the 90s.

Manulife is a financial & insurance company, and that is the sector hardest hit by the recent economic crisis (since 2008). Financials have had significant new regulations imposed on them as a result, forcing them to reduce risks and leverage, and will thus be unable to profit as grossly as they did in the past. Many financials will likely not rise back to their pre-2008 levels for decades, as even if they are successful and experience growth, their profit margins will remain much lower. This is just like most tech companies, which despite a decade of rapid growth in the tech sector, have still never come close to getting back to their pre-2001 highs, even as other sectors of the market broke to new highs far above the pre-2001 level.

Anyway, there's a difference between buying a stock at its low and buying the market at its low. A stock sinking without the market also sinking means there is probably a reason for that particular stock going down, like the company being weak, facing stiff competition, etc. The market going down to a low means its general panic, weakness in the economy, etc. When it recovers, the market goes back up, and so do the majority of companies that are generally solid. Individual stocks go to zero, but the market doesn't, unless you believe the end of civilization is upon us. You don't have to risk on buying individual stocks either, you can buy ETFs that track the entire market.

Your best bet would be selling your stakes in failing companies and buying shares of SPY (the ETF that tracks the S&P 500 index). When the market recovers, the index will see just as much and likely more upside than the companies you mentioned. And there is no risk of it going to zero short of complete collapse of Western economies.

Note: I am not a registered investment adviser and you should not take my words as such. That being said, most advisers consistently under-perform the market by a significant margin. Wall street analysts have had "buy" or "hold" recommendations on most stocks right through major drops in the markets or failures of those companies.

Full disclosure: I do not presently own any positions in any of the stocks mentioned. I may initiate a long or short position in SPY within the next 72 hours.

It's easy to say buy when a stock is hit hard, and easy to say hold on while it drops -- when it's someone else's money. When it's yours and you're not rich and had to work for that money it's a hell of a lot more difficult.

I would never say buy a stock that has dropped by itself (not as part of a general market drop). If people are selling off a specific stock, there's very often a good reason. Unless you think you are smarter or more informed than the people who spend their whole life and job researching and trading stocks with multi-billion institutional accounts, betting against the trend is likely to lose you money, not gain it.

The market was down over 400 points on very little hard news. If Greece defaults I'm betting the market plunges at least 1000 points.

Maybe, yep. And that'll be an even better long term entry point if that happens. But it might not. Right now, its at a low enough level relative to historical prices that I am highly confident that it will rise significantly above the current level within the next few years.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Bonam