Saudi Lawyers threaten lawsuits over "Ethical Oil" ads

[waldo]

It is pretty obvious that developing countries would still be trapped in medieval times without access to those things. Since developed world emissions are what made the developed world technology, markets and capital possible it follows that developing world owes their wealth today to the emissions in the developed world.

as we're effectively talking about China/India... the only 'developing' countries with relatively significant emissions, given your adamant assertion, you should have no difficulty quantifying said effect, on both accounts:

1. - the level/degree of developed country emissions, proper, responsible for the industrialization of China/India

2. - the level/degree of developed country emissions, outsourced, responsible for the industrialization of China/India

quantifying study citations, please

[Shady]

as we're effectively talking about China/India

Nope, countries in South America, as well as countries in Africa. Get a clue.

[waldo]

as we're effectively talking about China/India... the only 'developing' countries with relatively significant emissions

Nope, countries in South America, as well as countries in Africa. Get a clue.

relatively speaking... in regards the relatively stated reference, which 'developing' South American and African countries, in your clued assessment, effectively (relative to China/India) have significant emissions? Please provide your relative view per the following wiki 2008 emission levels, both annual CO2 total and % of global:

[jacee]

China's recent leap forward would not have been possible with US technology, US capital and US markets. So a portion of any historical emissions by the US also belong to China since they have clearly benefited from these emissions.

The corporate mind is a slick and convoluted creature. China's corporatization is to be lauded for undermining North American workers and pulling Chinese people out of poverty there. However don't dare suggest that emissions there are a corporate issue ... in fact, the US's emissions are also China's fault.

The sad/scary thing is that they believe themselves.

All of the emissions in the world are just not their fault!

So Tim ... who is accountable for the emissions from the tar sands? Not the corporations I assume. What about the profits? I'll bet the corporations take full credit for that, eh?

There's a name for that kind of disorder of thinking: Sociopathic thinkers take all credit, no blame, are driven to prey on others, have no conscience and are pathological liars.

If the shoe fits ...

Edited October 9, 2011 by jacee

[TimG]

as we're effectively talking about China/India... the only 'developing' countries with relatively significant emissions, given your adamant assertion, you should have no difficulty quantifying said effect, on both accounts:

You are playing games. It is obvious to anyone with even a limited understanding of what is happening in the developing world that the development they are experiencing now is driven by 1) technology created in the developed world 2) trade with the developed world. If China/India/Brazil were locked out of the developed world markets and denied access to the technology there is no way they would have developed as fast as they have. You have no rational basis for claiming otherwise.

[TimG]

All of the emissions in the world are just not their fault!

You, of course, missed the entire point I am making. I am refuting waldo's claim Chinese/Indians/Brazilians should be given a break because 'historical' emissions have come from the developed world. My argument is that view is nonsense because Chinese/Indians/Brazilians needed the emissions in the developed world in order to kick start their own development. Therefore historical emissions are irrelevant when discussing emissions today.

So Tim ... who is accountable for the emissions from the tar sands? Not the corporations I assume. What about the profits? I'll bet the corporations take full credit for that, eh?

The majority of emissions when burn gas come from actually burning it. The people whining about the oil sands are whining about a 5%-15% difference on the total. It is nothing but a contrived problem designed to raise funds for the "big green" lobby groups in the US.

For someone who claims to be sceptical corporations you are very quick to lap up whatever clap trap your "big green" corporate masters spew.

[bush_cheney2004]

Developed countries outsource emissions

So what...emissions are a good proxy for economic growth! We need more "emissions", not less!

[Bob]

So what...emissions are a good proxy for economic growth! We need more "emissions", not less!

Yup.

It should be noted, however, that this anti-Western crap about underdeveloped/developing nations being given some sort of get-out-of-emission-limits-free card because they should be permitted to go through the same "growing pains" as the Western world went through during its industrialization completely ignores technological advances. More efficient energy production isn't a luxury exclusive to the West. On the contrary, there are many instances where increased energy efficiency saves money AND reduces emissions. Not always, of course, but it should be done where economical.