Gap between rich and poor rising faster in Canada

[bush_cheney2004]

...You don’t think there are “successful” people whom had tough childhoods? What obviously counts, is the choices one makes as a young adult on where they will be ten, twenty, thirty years into the future……….At some point, personal accountability comes into play.

I guess he thinks excuses are more important than drive and persistence. I met a lot of Vietnamese "boat people" back in the 1970's who would laugh at his list of obstacles, having overcome far worse to become very successful in a new country.

[bush_cheney2004]

WOW you've got balls to call it a "failed socialist system", when it plain for everyone to see that it's a failed Capitalist system, and an American Empire in its death throes.

Uh oh...here it comes. America is to blame for unemployed slackers in Canada...for sure!

[Bonam]

Great. Tens of thousands of dollars in debt for "higher education" to go work in the fields for less than minimum wage.

If they can't get a job in their chosen field with their post-secondary education, they should have picked a useful degree. No one forced them to pick art history, political "science", or international studies. Everyone I know who graduated with a technical post-secondary degree now has a well-paying job in their chosen field (some chose law, medicine, or finance after graduating with their technical degrees). Every single person. Not only did they all get well paying jobs, they all got them within months of graduation, and many got the offers before graduating.

And we're not talking a crop of geniuses or anything here, getting a Bachelor's in something like Mechanical Engineering for example really requires only average intelligence, if you are willing to put a bit of work into it.

There are over 100,000 unfilled engineering positions in Western countries (NA and Europe), and almost no one to fill them with except immigrants from Russia and India.

Jobs are so far from scarce it's not even funny. I had a dozen offers from Canadian, American, and European employers when I graduated in June, and half of those I didn't even apply for, they just found me.

Where did I start? My parents came to Canada as immigrants with $500 and the clothes on their backs, when I was 6. They sure as hell didn't pay for any post-secondary education for me, I paid for it all through student loans and jobs I got while I studied.

The world is more full of opportunities than it ever has been. You can go out and seize them or you can sit at home and wait to die. The choice is yours. Your life is yours and yours alone. Only you can make it better.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Bonam

[CPCFTW]

WOW you've got balls to call it a "failed socialist system", when it plain for everyone to see that it's a failed Capitalist system, and an American Empire in its death throes.

57% spending on social security, unemployment, welfare, medicare, and medicaid certainly looks like the spending of a failed capitalist system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fy2010_spending_by_category.jpg

[bush_cheney2004]

...There are over 100,000 unfilled engineering positions in Western countries (NA and Europe), and almost no one to fill them with except immigrants from Russia and India.

Yep...and it also extends to skilled CNC machine tool operators and other skilled trades. Pick your rate and choose your fate.

Nobody owes you a job...compete and earn it.

[Bonam]

Yep...and it also extends to skilled CNC machine tool operators and other skilled trades. Pick your rate and choose your fate.

Definitely, skilled technicians, machinists, etc, are a precious rarity these days. I know only one machinist, and he makes just under $150k.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Bonam

[Guest Derek L]

I guess he thinks excuses are more important than drive and persistence. I met a lot of Vietnamese "boat people" back in the 1970's who would laugh at his list of obstacles, having overcome far worse to become very successful in a new country.

Or many of those, from all sides, that lived through WW II………Think of the survivors of the Blitz on London, Bataan death march, concentration camps, government internment camps, Iwo Jima or the Normandy landings and the fire bombings of Tokyo and Dresden hearing people complain about their lot in life because they’re ugly, or their Dad drank to much and smacked them around or they are “socially awkward”…….Jesus Christ was a Carpenter too

[CitizenX]

Why stop there? How about their parents or their grandparents etc? Or if they’re lucky…….they’ve had their heart broken………picked last for sports teams in school……..got shot down asking someone to a dance………

I don't know what point your trying to make here? Unless the child's grandparents are responsible for their childhood development. And why are you trying to compare child abuse with being picked last for sports teams in school. I provided a few articles that correlate child abuse and criminal activity later in life, and how Childhood Poverty Impacts Future Success. But I guess you do better with gut feelings and personal experience than you do with facts provided by professionals.

You don’t think there are “successful” people whom had tough childhoods? What obviously counts, is the choices one makes as a young adult on where they will be ten, twenty, thirty years into the future……….At some point, personal accountability comes into play.

Well of course there is and they make great movies that you conservatives cling to as examples. Like The Pursuit of Happyness with Will Smith. But these success stories are few and far between.

I think your thought process goes like this. Hey I worked really hard to be where I am, and I see all these lazy people crying because they aren't as successful as me. And I'm not saying you are completely wrong. These people exist.

Where I think you are wrong is that you over emphasize hard work as the major factor. I don't know your background but I'm willing to bet that if you are successful you were probably raised by good parents, that encouraged you. They weren't heavy drinkers and drug users, and they didn't beat and or abuse you. They probably weren't criminals there by setting a good example for you. You were probably not molested by a family member or family friend. And you didn't grow up with a learning disability.

You probably aren't short and or ugly with any kind of physical disability. And because you had a proper child hood you probably have good social skills ( this one I'm really not sure of ).

Not everyone is as lucky as you in this world and most of them need a little compassion and a lot less judgements made on them by people that have a lack of empathy. Maybe lack of empathy is your handicap. A handicap that actually benefits you in the business world. Maybe lack of empathy, a good childhood, and yes hard work is the reason for your success.

Edited September 28, 2011 by CitizenX

[bush_cheney2004]

....A handicap that actually benefits you in the business world. Maybe lack of empathy, a good childhood, and yes hard work is the reason for your success.

Sounds good to me....now go spread the word to the slackers...no more pity pot....get off your asses and go to work...somewhere.

[Bonam]

Well of course there is and they make great movies that you conservatives cling to as examples. Like The Pursuit of Happyness with Will Smith. But these success stories are few and far between.

How few and far between, exactly? How many people come here from an impoverished country with almost nothing and attain a perfectly good middle class lifestyle?

I think your thought process goes like this. Hey I worked really hard to be where I am, and I see all these lazy people crying because they aren't as successful as me. And I'm not saying you are completely wrong. These people exist.

Yep, I see them every day. Perfectly healthy young people aimlessly loitering on the streets not a few blocks away from a university campus.

Where I think you are wrong is that you over emphasize hard work as the major factor. I don't know your background but I'm willing to bet that if you are successful you were probably raised by good parents, that encouraged you. They weren't heavy drinkers and drug users, and they didn't beat and or abuse you. They probably weren't criminals there by setting a bad example for you. You were probably not molested by a family member or family friend. And you didn't grow up with a learning disability.

So because some people have abusive drunks as parents, the rest of us have to bail them out? Maybe we should take their parents off welfare and use that money to fund the kid instead? How bout that?

You probably aren't short and or ugly with any kind of physical disability.

Being short and/or ugly doesn't stop anyone from becoming rich.

Not everyone is as lucky as you in this world and most of them need a little compassion and a lot less judgements made on them by people that have a lack of empathy.

People should take care of their own needs, not expect others to do it for them. If you need compassion, find yourself a girlfriend and go cry on her shoulder.

[Guest Derek L]

I don't know what point your trying to make here? Unless the child's grandparents are responsible for their childhood development. And why are you trying to compare child abuse with being picked last for sports teams in school. I provided a few articles that correlate child abuse and criminal activity later in life, and how Childhood Poverty Impacts Future Success. But I guess you do better with gut feelings and personal experience than you do with facts provided by professionals.

My point is where do you stop? Eventually, as I stated, a person has to take responsibility for their own (or lack of) actions.

I think your thought process goes like this. Hey I worked really hard to be where I am, and I see all these lazy people crying because they aren't as successful as me. And I'm not saying you are completely wrong. These people exist.

That’s a fair assessment.

Where I think you are wrong is that you over emphasize hard work as the major factor. I don't know your background but I'm willing to bet that if you are successful you were probably raised by good parents, that encouraged you. They weren't heavy drinkers and drug users, and they didn't beat and or abuse you. They probably weren't criminals there by setting a good example for you. You were probably not molested by a family member or family friend. And you didn't grow up with a learning disability.

I would agree that I had good parents……..But they where(are) typical of “old school” Scottish Presbyterian stock……..Spare the rod and spoil the child…….If you’re going to whine/cry, we’ll give you something to cry about………And Dad knew his way around a bottle of Johnnie Walker

As for drugs, they weren’t invented yet……..As for being criminals……..LOL…….I can remember as a child fishing by the light of the car headlights and borrowing a deer or two from the Queen

You probably aren't short and or ugly with any kind of physical disability. And because you had a proper child hood you probably have good social skills ( this one I'm really not sure of ).

Ten foot tall & bullet proof

Not everyone is as lucky as you in this world and most of them need a little compassion and a lot less judgements made on them by people that have a lack of empathy. Maybe lack of empathy is your handicap. A handicap that actually benefits you in the business world. Maybe lack of empathy, a good childhood, and yes hard work is the reason for your success.

I have no problem empathizing to an extent……..In that people that I feel are giving it a good go, but have one wheel in the sand, deserve better……But when I compare people that really did have it rough, to examples of what you provide, there is no comparison……….Did/do you have/had parents/grandparents/great-grandparents that fought in the war? (If not, go by a couple of beers for an old fart on Remembrance day at the legion) Ask them how they had it and what they think of today’s youth……….Perhaps your handicap is that your standards are too low.

[jacee]

Why stop there? How about their parents or their grandparents etc? Or if they’re lucky…….they’ve had their heart broken………picked last for sports teams in school……..got shot down asking someone to a dance………

You don’t think there are “successful” people whom had tough childhoods? What obviously counts, is the choices one makes as a young adult on where they will be ten, twenty, thirty years into the future……….At some point, personal accountability comes into play.

Let me know when the wealthiEST start to take some personal responsibility and pay their fair share and stop taking government handouts.

[blueblood]

Sounds good to me....now go spread the word to the slackers...no more pity pot....get off your asses and go to work...somewhere.

What I find interesting is a ron paul supporter throwing a pity party for the poor. All I can say is wow! I hope he knows that what ron paul calls for would bring down debt, but growth would grind to a halt and there would be more than a decade of high interest rates to encourage savings for capital because there would be a credit crunch of biblical proportions. In short there would be a massive bath everyone takes while the economy readjusts. Not too poor person friendly.

Also there is the whole free to succeed and free to fail thing which doesn't go over well with poor people.

I would ask this question, if the govt should be taxing profits from those that succeed, should they not at the same time cover their losses if they fail?

[Bonam]

Let me know when the wealthiEST start to take some personal responsibility and pay their fair share and stop taking government handouts.

If the stupid government wants to give you a bailout, why say no?

[jacee]

If the stupid government wants to give you a bailout, why say no?

They should quit whining and get a real job instead of scamming the welfare system.

[Bonam]

They should quit whining and get a real job instead of scamming the welfare system.

People will generally take what the government gives them. That goes for both rich and poor.

Whether the government should be in the habit of giving anything, on the other hand, is what's worth debating. I am against corporate bailouts just as much as I'm against a welfare state.

[jacee]

I would ask this question, if the govt should be taxing profits from those that succeed, should they not at the same time cover their losses if they fail?

Are you really that dumb?

[jacee]

People will generally take what the government gives them. That goes for both rich and poor.

Whether the government should be in the habit of giving anything, on the other hand, is what's worth debating. I am against corporate bailouts just as much as I'm against a welfare state.

.

"The government" is us.

The so-called capitalists are the welfare bums.

The people getting welfare are the ones the so-called capitalists refuse to employ because the so-called capitalists are too lazy and just sit around collecting 'welfare'

The rich are so jealous of people on welfare they've decided to join them.

Now what do you call that kind of state?

Because that's what we've got.

A bunch of no good thieving blackmailing so-called 'capitalist' scam artists sucking off the public teat.

And we are all the public.

[Oleg Bach]

"Mama may have - Pappa may have, but God bless the child that has his own" If you are born with loot you are likely to have it all your life. Money makes money in this world of artifical power, status and privledge. Now if you were to have skill and the ability to create real wealth...as in the knowledge to create shelter - grow food - make clothing...find and harvest fuel..you will do all right but you will never be rich - You will work till you wear out and you will be poor in the end - with no real inheritance to pass down to your kids. Those weasils who do not create real wealth but are rich are artifically rich - for instance the information trade really generates nothing - so the PARASITES dealing in modern and shifty technology are getting richer riding on the backs of those that create true wealth - Like a tradesman who will build their dream home...with his hands. mind and back...The gap between rich and poor should be termed - the gap between rich weasils and those that do the actual work.

It has always astounded me for instance who some stupid ass tossing a ball around is given millions of dollars...and a person who "has investments" makes more and more money but does nothing personally to create true material comfort and wealth...the gap is between artifical and real- so far artifical is winning - sad to say.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The rich are so jealous of people on welfare they've decided to join them.

Now what do you call that kind of state?

Because that's what we've got.

A bunch of no good thieving blackmailing so-called 'capitalist' scam artists sucking off the public teat.

And we are all the public.

Even if that we true, you have also indicted the poor welfare bums. Is that really all you have...."jealousy" for the very state dependence you advocate for the "poor"? Does anybody have to actually work in your scenario?

[bush_cheney2004]

...It has always astounded me for instance who some stupid ass tossing a ball around is given millions of dollars...and a person who "has investments" makes more and more money but does nothing personally to create true material comfort and wealth...the gap is between artifical and real- so far artifical is winning - sad to say.

Alas, methinks we have found the real source of "jealousy". Using such logic, it has always astounded me that music artists with "the gift" are given millions for record contracts and concert tours.

[Moonlight Graham]

I don't have the time or energy these days to respond to a bunch of individual posts i've read, but a bunch of you people on here have your head seriously rammed so far up your ass when it comes to people labeled 'poor'. I would imagine most with these attitudes have never even come close to foodbank or a homeless shelter or trailer park or native reserve. The stereotypes on here are hilarious. Ahh yes, the ol' "poor people are lazy" nonsense. Let's see...

- The family-type with the highest poverty rate in Canada is single mothers (47%). Clearly they are lazy.

- Age group most likely to be poor: children (18% of all Canadian children are poor. That's 2 million kids). Also, 37% of all people who visit foodbanks in Canada are children. Damn lazy kids, get a job!

- Women make less money than men and are more likely to be under the poverty line. Damn lazy women, work harder like us men!

- 17% of single female seniors in Canada live under the poverty line. That's also almost double the rate of single male seniors. Come on granny, work harder!

- More than half of First Nations people are unemployed. Damn lazy aboriginals, what do you have to complain about?!?

- Recent immigrants are more likely to be poor and unemployed. Stop watching tv Mohammad and get a job ya bum!

- Visible minorities have higher poverty rates than Caucasians. Thems lazy negros i tells ya!

- "Several studies have found that youth experiencing homelessness have disproportionately been involved in child protection services or foster care in their lives. This number ranges from close to 30% to 49%." link

- "Contrary to popular misconception, schizophrenia is only present in approximately 6% of Toronto’s homeless population" (above link). Must just be laziness then.

(Apologies, if a stat above doesn't have a link it was taken from a 2010 book i have on social welfare in Canada)

Yes, some poor people are indeed lazy and can suck the system, but most aren't. You can also work your butt off to become wealthy, yet you can also do jack-all but have wealthy parents and invest wisely. Some people just don't understand the social and structural determinants of income. A good example of structural determinants would be that 99% of those living in Africa, Asia, and central/south america are dirt poor even relative to the Canadian poor. Is that because they are less hard-working or less intelligent? Or might it be something else?

[Moonlight Graham]

They should quit whining and get a real job instead of scamming the welfare system.

There's also a concept of called "the working poor" you may not have heard about. Fact about your "welfare bums": "Families in Canada that receive more than half of family income from employment: 48% of poor families; 62% of poor singles" (National Council of Welfare)

Stereotypes are awesome.

[Oleg Bach]

Alas, methinks we have found the real source of "jealousy". Using such logic, it has always astounded me that music artists with "the gift" are given millions for record contracts and concert tours.

Some sell out and play for money - some artists paint for money - and some of the best just can not be bought. For instance...I attempted to paint for cash - the work was not worth shit - paint out of passion and the work is truely a lasting thing to behold..."jealousy" ? What the hell are you talking about? I know some people that are so rich it makes Trump look like a chump...and I have found that these people on occassion are jealous of me - I admire no on with material wealth or finacial success...the only hero I have is ME. You on the other hand seem to kiss rich ass and think that they are speical - ME thinks it is you that has the problem with material "jealousy" - I have never been jealous of anyone - other than my hot current girl friends of my youth who over flirted at the club...and I had to kick a guy silly while he was peeing - yes - I am a sneaky bastard..get them while they excrete...lol

[Oleg Bach]

People will generally take what the government gives them. That goes for both rich and poor.

Whether the government should be in the habit of giving anything, on the other hand, is what's worth debating. I am against corporate bailouts just as much as I'm against a welfare state.

When a company swings a billion dollar deal and uses public pension money as a lever - I call that a worse crime than some little old man not yet 65 collecting a frinking pitiful welfare cheque...especially when the proceeds from the deal are not distributed fairly to the real investors - those with the pension fund.