Gap between rich and poor rising faster in Canada

[cybercoma]

The rich need to be careful not to remove the social services that they themselves put in place to protect themselves and their own capital from the advances of the classes below them. Social disruption impacts trade and capital significantly. The markets obviously rely on stability and when you remove or reduce the social systems, you create instability. Of course, what does that matter when capital investment is global and has migrated off-shore. Perhaps we're nothing more than a Potemkin Village, designed to placate the masses. When the cardboard cutouts start falling over, the entire illusory facade will collapse like a house of cards.

[Guest Derek L]

Look it up yourself.

I happen to like the forest for the trees so too bad, so sad, for those who don't.

I know already, are lumber industry is near in the toilet...doesn't change the fact that it's still being logged....I enjoy the forests too......besides, with all the natural gas offshore of Clayoquot Sound, the real bonanza has yet to begin......

[Guest Derek L]

I thought this was funny:

Buffet's firm owes close to a billion dollars in back taxes

And

What a hypocrite......

Funny thing is, it turns out Buffett was being… shall we say… disingenuous when he claimed his “leaders” never got around to asking for his “shared sacrifice.” His company, Berkshire Hathaway, has been fighting the IRS tooth and nail to avoid paying its federal tax bill for nearly a decade.

How much of the State’s rightful money has this hypocrite been clutching in a white-knuckled death grip? Oh, only about a billion dollars or so. Bill Wilson of Americans for Limited Government tallies up the bill:

[Guest Derek L]

The rich need to be careful not to remove the social services that they themselves put in place to protect themselves and their own capital from the advances of the classes below them. Social disruption impacts trade and capital significantly. The markets obviously rely on stability and when you remove or reduce the social systems, you create instability. Of course, what does that matter when capital investment is global and has migrated off-shore. Perhaps we're nothing more than a Potemkin Village, designed to placate the masses. When the cardboard cutouts start falling over, the entire illusory facade will collapse like a house of cards.

I tend to agree with your sentiments to an extent. It’s really chicken or the egg I suppose….

I remembering reading years ago a fitting description of a free market economy (I want to say Adam Smith, but not sure by who) that described it and all the important divisions within it (rich/poor/merchants/builders/producers etc) as spokes on a wheel.

It’s an apt description, as I’m sure we both can agree, in that all these different sections of the economy do play an important part. If one section grows too large, there is the threat that the other spokes will collapse under it’s weight……..end of smooth functioning wheel……

I suppose the debate amongst these different “spokes” is if we’ve reached or are coming close to reaching a point where a spoke or two is about to buckle………Are the rich/investors being taxed to much? Are the poor to poor? Are increased social programs no longer affordable? That is the real, divisive debate amongst the different spectrums of politics.

In my view, as an eternal optimist, there is nothing wrong with the actual structural working of the wheel…..I don’t feel that any spokes are about to buckle…….I think the problem and solution is quite simple……..We’re running low on air (money) and we just need to pump up the tire (economy)……

To do this, realistically, we’ll all have to take a turn “pumping up” the tire……..

Edited September 22, 2011 by Derek L

[jacee]

Richest 1% income shares at historic high

Well Derek, it appears that this "turn" belongs to the richEST 1%, whose tax rate is too low, thus explaining the current discontent among the unemployed middle class;

The last time Canada’s elite held so much of the nation’s income in their hands was in the 1920s. Even then, their incomes didn’t soar as fast as they are today. It’s a first in Canadian history and it underscores a dramatic reversal of long-term trends.”

...

“The last time the richest Canadians were taxed at this leve was in the 1920s,” says Yalnizyan. “Combine record-breaking growth in incomes with historically low top tax rates, and the richest 1% is truly breaking new frontiers of income inequality.”

"1920's" ... hmmm ... that would be just before the great depression ...Are we heading that way again?

And that, says the economist, is good news for people who don’t mind getting rich off the misery of others The longer the downturn lasts, he notes, the more money you can make in a variety of “borderline- egal” and “semi-ethical” but high-paying home businesses like kitchen dentistry, toilet- paper gouging, road-kill take-out, unlicensed beer wine and whisky sales, amateur protection rackets backyard burial services and many, many more.“The scenario isn’t pretty, but make no mistake – it can work to your advantage if you go to work without delay,“ the Washington, D.C.-based expert told me exclusively.“For starters, you should hoard items that everybody will need."

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/2nd-great-depression-can-make-you-rich-as-bank-collapse-is-just-weeks-away-says-expert/

[Guest Derek L]

Richest 1% income shares at historic high

Well Derek, it appears that this "turn" belongs to the richEST 1%, whose tax rate is too low, thus explaining the current discontent among the unemployed middle class;

"1920's" ... hmmm ... that would be just before the great depression ...Are we heading that way again?

What has been the trend of Canada’s national GDP, in comparison to other nations since Confederation? I doubt we stood in the same position in comparison to the 1920s world economy as we do today……Wouldn’t said trend also reflect the generation of wealth?

You bring up the question of another great depression……….In a time of (Currently) European governments drastically being forced to reduce spending in all areas, including social programs……..FDR brought forth massive social “Hero” projects during this time……..Did they really help the US economy, or did the Second World War?

If you draw parallels between then and today, we saw the world economies tanking, all the well a select number of nations greatly focused on military rearmament (Germany & Japan), all the well, the West was concerned about the growing Communist menace and former colonies breaking free of their Western “masters”

Today, we have a faltering economy namely affecting the Western first world, all the well we see a rapidly expending Chinese military and the rebuilding of the Russian armed forces……….All the well, the West is concerned with Islamic terrorism and these same countries in Asia/Africa/Middle East decrying their independence from foreign influence.

I suppose the real question that must be asked is not when/if we go into another depression, but when will the third World War start?

[jacee]

Ahhh yes ... the war industry's answer to civil dissent and disobedience ... make a war ... or threaten to .

It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and war-making and it has metastasized as this war has been increasingly privatized (there are now more contractors than soldiers in Iraq). Good small-d democrats need to keep watch on current legislation, hold our representatives accountable and and demand that they take bolder action to bring this system to an end.

http://www.stwr.org/global-conflicts-militarization/ending-war-for-profit.html

Edited September 24, 2011 by jacee

[Shady]

As long as people are earning their money by not breaking the law, it's none of your business how much money somebody earns. You're not entitled to other people's money or labour just because you earn less. Get a life.

[jacee]

As long as people are earning their money by not breaking the law, it's none of your business how much money somebody earns. You're not entitled to other people's money or labour just because you earn less. Get a life.

I don't want anybody's money. I just want the wealthiEST 1% to pay their fair share of taxes instead of the rest of us picking up their tab/debt.

[Guest Derek L]

Ahhh yes ... the war industry's answer to civil dissent and disobedience ... make a war ... or threaten to .

Playing devil’s advocate, a Third World War, with the United States and China being key “players”, would solve many of the current problems facing the United States……..Unemployment…….declining industrial base…..access to key strategic resources……..and the debt currently owed to China……….Over the last decade or so, Red China has been investing heavily in their military in terms of both modernization and power projection capabilities……..They’re itching for a fight…..

Anyone, be they anywhere on the political spectrum, who feels there isn’t a growing likelihood of a future cold war between China and the United States (Backed by the rest of the Anglosphere), with an ever increasing possibility of a major war are naïve.

In my opinion the chances of a war between them are greater, then it ever was between the West and Soviet Union, based on both their economies being so interwoven………

Look at the news headlines………..The Americans are now saying Pakistan’s intelligence agency are behind many of the attacks going on in Afghanistan………Pakistan has growing economic and military alliances with China………Relations between India and the United States have improved drastically over the last decade…….The Americans just conducted a joint military exercise with Vietnam……..China is building and leasing military basing rights throughout the Asian sub-continent and Eastern Africa……..The Japanese, Australians and South Korea are all modernizing their militaries………The Americans have expanded the Naval presence in the Western Pacific in Guam…….the list goes on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLddJ1WceHQ

[jacee]

Playing devil’s advocate, a Third World War, with the United States and China being key “players”, would solve many of the current problems facing the United States……..Unemployment…….declining industrial base…..access to key strategic resources……..and the debt currently owed to China……….Over the last decade or so, Red China has been investing heavily in their military in terms of both modernization and power projection capabilities……..They’re itching for a fight…..

Anyone, be they anywhere on the political spectrum, who feels there isn’t a growing likelihood of a future cold war between China and the United States (Backed by the rest of the Anglosphere), with an ever increasing possibility of a major war are naïve.

In my opinion the chances of a war between them are greater, then it ever was between the West and Soviet Union, based on both their economies being so interwoven………

Look at the news headlines………..The Americans are now saying Pakistan’s intelligence agency are behind many of the attacks going on in Afghanistan………Pakistan has growing economic and military alliances with China………Relations between India and the United States have improved drastically over the last decade…….The Americans just conducted a joint military exercise with Vietnam……..China is building and leasing military basing rights throughout the Asian sub-continent and Eastern Africa……..The Japanese, Australians and South Korea are all modernizing their militaries………The Americans have expanded the Naval presence in the Western Pacific in Guam…….the list goes on.

So ... hypothetically ... if China and the US go to war ... what happens with the US corporations now happily pulling in profits in China?

[Guest Derek L]

So ... hypothetically ... if China and the US go to war ... what happens with the US corporations now happily pulling in profits in China?

Quite simply, the same thing that will happen to Chinese assets within the West……..or the US debt held by China.

[Shady]

I don't want anybody's money. I just want the wealthiEST 1% to pay their fair share of taxes instead of the rest of us picking up their tab/debt.

Actually, they pick up your tab.

[Guest Derek L]

So ... hypothetically ... if China and the US go to war ... what happens with the US corporations now happily pulling in profits in China?

Jacee, though it's about six years old, here's an interesting read

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/06/how-we-would-fight-china/3959/

[jacee]

Actually, they pick up your tab.

cite?

Here's mine:

Canada’s rich not contributing fair share of taxes: study

I pick up my own tab.

Edited September 24, 2011 by jacee

[Shady]

cite?

Here's mine:

Canada’s rich not contributing fair share of taxes: study

I pick up my own tab.

Your cite doesn't make any sense. The current top tax rate is 30% and the bottom rate is 5%. How is somebody in the top 1% paying a 30% federal tax rate having their tab picked up by you, when you're paying a 5% tax rate? You're making a fool out of yourself.

[CPCFTW]

Your cite doesn't make any sense. The current top tax rate is 30% and the bottom rate is 5%. How is somebody in the top 1% paying a 30% federal tax rate having their tab picked up by you, when you're paying a 5% tax rate? You're making a fool out of yourself.

Because the top 1% don't pay an arbitrary percentage of their income that the left deems "their fair share". It's the left's new goalpost. When they run out of other people's money to pay for programs to fuel their own sense of moral superiority next, it will be that the rich should pay a higher percentage than the average because they're rich!

It doesn't matter if they pay 1 million in taxes if they are earning 10mil a year. You see, if you save and invest, then you are a very bad man and should be punished. The right thing to do is live off credit cards and welfare cheques, and tax people more on their investments because THAT MONEY IS OURS!!!

Edited September 24, 2011 by CPCFTW

[jacee]

Your cite doesn't make any sense. The current top tax rate is 30% and the bottom rate is 5%. How is somebody in the top 1% paying a 30% federal tax rate having their tab picked up by you, when you're paying a 5% tax rate? You're making a fool out of yourself.

We're acquiring public debt while the richEST are getting tax cuts.

The study includes all taxes, not just income tax.

However, the lowest income tax rate not 5% as you said, but 15% federal + 5% (or more) provincial:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/2010_rt-eng.html

Full study report available here:

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/reports/eroding-tax-fairness

[Pliny]

At the rate money is being devalued we will all be millionaires shortly.

Then Jaycee will have wished he wasn't so hasty in taxing those with money who are genrally considered the rich. He will find that a miilion doesn't really go that far, especially by the time he is a millionaire.

Here are some interesting stats.

Millionaires

[jacee]

Quite simply, the same thing that will happen to Chinese assets within the West……..or the US debt held by China.

Not sure what you mean, but it seems to me the corporations operating there wouldn't want their profits interrupted, so the warmongers might think twice.

Odd to think about possibly not having access to all the things we now buy from China, since that's pretty much everything these days.

I can't see even the stupid warmongers being that stupid.

[Guest Derek L]

Not sure what you mean, but it seems to me the corporations operating there wouldn't want their profits interrupted, so the warmongers might think twice.

Odd to think about possibly not having access to all the things we now buy from China, since that's pretty much everything these days.

I can't see even the stupid warmongers being that stupid.

If I were wearing a tin-foil hat, I might suggest that lobbyists representing the defence sector garnered more influence than the undergarment and pet toy industries……..Ike didn’t warn about the running shoe-industrial complex after all

The vast majority of low tech, mass produced merchandise that we in the West purchase from China, could quite easily be produced in other third world countries in Asia and Africa.

Edit to add.....One potential country to replace the mass produced junk industry that could take the slack from China could be India

Edited September 24, 2011 by Derek L

[jacee]

At the rate money is being devalued we will all be millionaires shortly.

Then Jaycee will have wished he wasn't so hasty in taxing those with money who are genrally considered the rich. He will find that a miilion doesn't really go that far, especially by the time he is a millionaire.

Here are some interesting stats.

Millionaires

She.

[Bonam]

She.

On the internet, everyone is a guy until you have live video proof otherwise

[CPCFTW]

We're acquiring public debt while the richEST are getting tax cuts.

The study includes all taxes, not just income tax.

However, the lowest income tax rate not 5% as you said, but 15% federal + 5% (or more) provincial:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/2010_rt-eng.html

Full study report available here:

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/reports/eroding-tax-fairness

I already made your argument for you. You're welcome.

Because the top 1% don't pay an arbitrary percentage of their income that the left deems "their fair share". It's the left's new goalpost. When they run out of other people's money to pay for programs to fuel their own sense of moral superiority next, it will be that the rich should pay a higher percentage than the average because they're rich!

It doesn't matter if they pay 1 million in taxes if they are earning 10mil a year. You see, if you save and invest, then you are a very bad man and should be punished. The right thing to do is live off credit cards and welfare cheques, and tax people more on their investments because THAT MONEY IS OURS!!!

Edited September 24, 2011 by CPCFTW

[CPCFTW]

Jacee, what do you think of this hypothetical?

Lets say I am an only child and I work for 35 years making $100,000/yr on average. I save $18000 per year in my RRSP every year. And put an extra $20000 per year into a margin account because I believe in saving for my children's future (assuming TFSAs did not exist). My portfolios grow by a conservative 3%/yr.

After 35 yrs, I now have $1.1mil in my RRSP and $1.2mil in my margin account. I plan on retiring in the next few years, but I'm making $200,000 at this time and would like to continue to work for a couple more years while I still can to leave as much to my kids as I can. ($200,000/yr employment income).

My parents also die around this time, I inherit their 2 houses and rent them out for $2000/mo each. I have also secured several mortgages due to my strong credit, income, and assets. I have bought 5 other rental properties over these 35 years which I rent out for $2000/mo each. Total I am making $14,000 a month in rental income ($168,000/yr rental income).

My parent's non-real estate assets also total another $1,000,000 combined. I invest these funds into dividend and interest earning investments in my margin account. I now have 2.2mil in my margin account. I am earning approximately 3% dividends on the assets in this account, so my dividend income is $66,000/yr.

My total income is $200,000 employment, $168,000 rental, $66,000 dividend income = $434,000/yr income.

Now lets say I retire in a few years with 2.5mil in my margin account and about 1.2mil in my RRSP. Most of my mortgages are paid off, and I'm still making around $170,000 rental income, and $70,000 dividend income. I live relatively frugally for 25 more years, saving about $100,000 per year of this income after living expenses and taxes, which I add to my margin account.

I only have one kid, and when I die, I leave him 7 houses generating $170,000 in rental income, and a margin account with approximately $6,000,000 in assets in it generating $180,000 in dividend income. My kid doesn't bother working and is making $350,000 per year. He pays less as a % of his income than you in taxes because of expense deductions for rental properties, favourable treatment of dividend income (to encourage investment), and some income splitting.

Is he an evil wealthy elite who doesn't pay his fair share? Do you have a right to the money I earned for him as his father through a lifetime of sacrifice?

I hope you can now understand why the left's greedy and covetous nature is so repulsive to conservatives who want to be free to make these types of choices for their futures and the futures of their children.

The wealthy take virtually nothing from society. They cost almost nothing to provide social services for since they can provide these services for themselves. Wealthy people owe nothing to you that their parents or they themselves didn't pay a hundredfold for to get to where they are.

Edited September 24, 2011 by CPCFTW