Thoughts Ten Years Later, September 11, 2001

[jbg]

Ten years ago tomorrow, some incredibly evil people made a senseless attack on the United States, killing approximately 3000 people, for no good reason.

In the past I have attributed some of this evil to Islam and have been taken to task for it. I have concluded that the problem is not primarily Islam. It is the wanton and savage tribal cultures that predated Islam. The cultures have persisted despite, not because of, the advent of Islam. Deuteronomy 25:17-19 states:

17] Remember what Amalek did to you on your journey, after you left Egypt- 18] how, undeterred by fear of God, he surprised you on the march, when you were famished and weary, and cut down all the stragglers in your rear. 19] Therefore, when the Eternal your God grants you safety from all your enemies around you, in the land that the Eternal your God is giving you as a hereditary portion, you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget!

I personally believe that the September 11 attacks and the commemoration of their anniversary remind us of the consequences of Amelekite tactics in modern times. These tactics were designed to sow despair and chaos. We have become hamstrung by our rules of fighting, many of which are in adjoining Biblical passages. G-d's commandment, earlier in Exodus, to wipe out the Amelkites was not obeyed. We are living with the consequences of tolerating this sort of evil.

There are many, both on the Board and off, who consider attacks primarily targeting the innocent and helpless somewhat excusable or at least explainable. They are not.

If the Islamic religion and other forces for good, such as local leadership, does not exercise some restraint over fighting methods that target the innocent, I fear the results will be tragic. Put simply, as a society, we cannot afford even a relatively unsophisticated attack of the variety that occurred on September 11, 2001, March 11, 2004 or July 11, 2005, the latter two being the Spanish train and London subway attacks. We certainly cannot tolerate the amped up capabilities of a nuclear Iran. These people, not the Americans, Europeans or Israelis are the ones that must learn restraint.

If this restraint is not shown, and there are more outrages, even the hard left will need to concede the need for total warfare. This would be a tragedy since many innocent will die. We need not sit there helplessly and be killed. G-d commanded the destruction of the Amelkites since nothing less would stop the madness then.

I pray it is not the same now.

Edited September 11, 2011 by jbg

[eyeball]

There are many, both on the Board and off, who consider attacks primarily targeting the innocent and helpless somewhat excusable or at least explainable. They are not.

There are many, both on the Board and off, who consider support for dictators and despots somewhat excusable or at least explainable. They are not.

Why you would think the hard-left would ever feel the need to overlook this just shows how desperate you are for redemption.

If this restraint is not shown, and there are more outrages, even the hard left will need to concede the need for total warfare. This would be a tragedy since many innocent will die.

What's this, some kind of threat? If your side doesn't show some restraint...all I can say is I hope the enemies you've made chose right-wing targets.

For what it's worth I still reject Bin Laden's ideology as much as I reject your's.

Edited September 11, 2011 by eyeball

[Sir Bandelot]

The loss of innocent lives in Sept. 11 was tragic, JBG. As it is whenever it happens.

Yes they were evil men. But what your OP does not touch on is WHY. What was their motive for making the attacks? That would help us understand what it is that motivates people to commit terrorism.

[WestViking]

The events of 11 September 2001 were neither senseless nor without reason. The attacks were the very definition of terrorism. The objective was to make an attack so amoral, so bizarre, so brutal that it would begin the process of terrifying Americans to the point that they would plead for their lives and sue for peace.

I do not accept that modern terrorism is tribal in nature. We are all members of some tribe, of clans within those tribes and families within the clans. History is resplendent with tales of savage warfare amongst tribes as those who face annihilation will react with whatever level of brutality and savagery is necessary for survival.

Most of mankind's significant wars have involved some degree of terrorism. The tactics are well known and well honed. While civil society shuns terrorist tactics, pragmatic generals have always understood the genius of terrifying the opposing society to the point that it will at best spike the guns of its soldiers and sue for peace and at worst undermine the support needed to continue warfare.

Terrorism has evolved into a separate entity rather than a tactic of conflict. Osama bin Laden understood that the terrorism he espoused would result in awful retaliation on any nation that supported him overtly or that he was connected with. He thus disassociated himself and his followers with all nations which made his band and brand of terrorist more alarming. A target nation had no one to retaliate against. Bin Laden and his band were shadowy figures in an underworld without law or regulation.

Another element required to create a separate terrorist entity was to demonize a worthy opponent to enhance recruitment to the cause. First world nations, led by America, were not just worthy of demonization, but were the natural enemies of third world nations living under brutal regimes. Dictators had already blamed the first world for the poverty and squalor suffered by their societies; creating a clandestine terrorist group to strike back at the alleged cause of so much suffering was natural.

Bear in mind that part of the bin Laden strategy was to intimidate supporters as well as his perceived enemies. The more successful al Qaeda was (and is) the more power bin Laden acquired over his supporters who did not (do not) want to become targets of his terrorist group.

The final element of the terrorist group envisioned was a noble cause. bin Laden chose to distort and subvert Islam and create a terrorist sect based on his interpretations of the Koran. Prior to 9/11, bin laden had created a shadowy terrorist group that:

• was not aligned with any nation, but appeared to exist in all nations;

• had a noble cause - the spread of Islam

• had a worthy enemy - America and other first world nations

• had a recruitment strategy and ready supply of people living in hopelessness

• had support from nations and wealthy individuals who envied (or hated) America and other first world nations and wished their destruction.

What bin Laden failed to anticipate was the American reaction to 9/11. He did not expect America and her allies to vigorously counter-attack and wipe out his support, supply and training facilities in Afghanistan. He did not expect that America and her allies would reoccupy Iraq. bin Laden made the tactical error of throwing resources into Afghanistan and Iraq to prevent an American success. bin Laden's terrorist organization was not designed or structured to conduct a prolonged ground war. The result was decimation and weakening of the al Qaeda infrastructure. The planned follow-ups to 9/11 necessary for a campaign of terrorism never occurred.

The occupation of Afghanistan is winding down. The reoccupation of Iraq is bound to wind down shortly. After ten years, many Americans and their allies are weary of the war on terrorism, because they have nothing tangible to show for the efforts of their militaries. They cannot point to specific battles or confrontations where they "won".

It is still possible that some conflicts amongst nations will be fought in accordance with Geneva Conventions, but the probability is minimal. World War II was the last deployment of massive land armies in conflict. Air power and the technology of guided missiles and remote controlled drones have rendered conventional warfare obsolete. Behind-the-lines generals are no longer safe; neither are their political masters. The capacity to bridge oceans with lethal air and sea power has changed our world and how we fight.

Oddly, the high-tech capability of modern warfare has enabled the low-tech capacity of terrorism. Small groups of determined men can carry out horrendous terror attacks. Currently, 9/11 stands out as THE example of the capacity of terrorism. bin Laden is now part of history, but the dream of al Qaeda is not. If we want to keep 9/11 as a reminder of our failure to grasp the capacity of terrorism, we have to remain vigilant. As we stand down our military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq, al Qaeda will commence rebuilding. All of the elements listed above are still in place.

The war on terrorist organizations is far from over. Rest assured that if al Qaeda manages some success in its efforts to terrorize first world nations, the blueprint will be duplicated. The 'noble cause' may not be the spread of Islam, but other ideologies are open to perversion. Somali pirates, amongst others, will join any cause to enjoy a share of the spoils. The barbarians are truly at the gates in the form of terrorist organizations and western nations are ill prepared to deal with them.

Edited September 11, 2011 by WestViking

[eyeball]

The barbarians are truly at the gates in the form of terrorist organizations and western nations are ill prepared to deal with them.

What we're really ill prepared to deal with are virtue and economics.

As long as we continue to cock these up terrorists will have no end of raisons d'etre.

[jbg]

What we're really ill prepared to deal with are virtue and economics.

As long as we continue to cock these up terrorists will have no end of raisons d'etre.

Are you saying we "cocked up" the September 11 attacks?

[eyeball]

Are you saying we "cocked up" the September 11 attacks?

Nope.

[Guest American Woman]

My thoughts ten years later ..........

It's wrong to try to appease extremists of any stripe, especially those who threaten, target, and kill innocent people.

I have such a sense of sadness for all of the innocent people who were killed - on that day and the ten years following - and their surviving family and friends. A sadness that at times is overwhelming. Such a loss.

I have gone from believing the best about my government to thinking the worst about my government to finally seeing the whole picture.

I realize that there will always be people from other nations who blame the United States for all the ills of the world while ignoring the benefits that they received by association, giving no credit, assuming no blame/minimizing any blame.

I realize these same people will blame the U.S. when our decisions have a negative effect on their country, while ignoring their country's actions that put them in that position/minimizing the decisions that their country made that put them in that position.

I realize there will always be people who claim that Americans are seeing anti-American sentiment where it doesn't exist (even though it sometimes does), while instantly recognizing anti-Muslim sentiment (even where it doesn't exist).

I see that we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

I appreciate wholeheartedly how fortunate we are to live with the freedoms that we enjoy - this is especially important to me as a woman and mother of two daughters - and hope that people never take it for granted to the point that they become complacent about it.

I remember and thank the troops who have been giving their time, endangering their lives, leaving loved ones behind, for our countries - for us.

I feel sadness for all the troops who didn't come home 'whole' and for all of those who didn't come home at all. My heart also goes out to their families and friends.

Ten years later I am still amazed by the events that took place on 9-11-01. The shock, the fear, the sadness - followed by the wonderful feeling of the country pulling together - "united we stand" - making me proud of my nation; pride at Bush (who I rarely felt pride over) for emphasizing that we are not at war with Islam; a feeling of warmth from the world at large over the reaction and the love poured our way; and of course the feeling of thanks to our neighbor for taking in our planes without question - in spite of any risk it may have put them in - and thanks to all the wonderful Canadians who looked out for the people as they waited until the U.S. could accept flights again - renewing my faith in humanity at a time of such sadness.

Edited September 11, 2011 by American Woman

[Argus]

There are many, both on the Board and off, who consider support for dictators and despots somewhat excusable or at least explainable. They are not.

Why you would think the hard-left would ever feel the need to overlook this just shows how desperate you are for redemption.

Would this be the hard-left which angrily defended the Soviet Union, Cuba, Mao's China, as well as other brutal Communist dictatorships over the years, denying all accusations and defiantly proclaiming them to be inclusive societies of peace, harmony and universal brotherhood?

[BubberMiley]

My only thought is that I'm still sick of hearing about it.

[Argus]

The loss of innocent lives in Sept. 11 was tragic, JBG. As it is whenever it happens.

Yes they were evil men. But what your OP does not touch on is WHY. What was their motive for making the attacks? That would help us understand what it is that motivates people to commit terrorism.

Barbarians are an easily angered lot. And their usual response to anger is violence, often extreme. Barbarians are a violent people without much restraint.

After 9/11 the NYPD put extra cops around Muslims areas in case of trouble, ie, attacks on them, but those attacks never materialized. That's because the West is civilized. However, as we've often seen, it takes very little to arouse barbarians to brutal acts of mass violence. Be it in India, in Pakistan, in Nigeria or Kenya or Egypt or Lebanon or Afghanistan or Indonesia. Masses of bug-eyed barbarians, clutching pipes and axes and machetes scream through the streets to attack organizations or communities they see as being in some way offensive. In Pakistan, crazed Muslims burn houses and churches and temples and hack people to death. In Indonesia, crazed Muslims burn houses and churches and temples and hack people to death. In Kenya and Nigeria it's the same. In India sometimes it's crazed Muslims, sometimes crazed Sikhs, but mostly crazed Hindus. There are numerous bloody riots in China, though we see and hear little about them. And there, the barbarians find other causes to unite them in blood-lust. So many of these people seem to feel nothing particularly immoral about beating and killing perfectly innocent people because those people belong to some group or community which has offended them.

Meanwhile, in the West, our few riots consist mainly of breaking windows and stealing electronics.

I imagine it wasn't terribly hard to convince the ignorant barbarians who took over the aircraft that they were doing Allah's will, and would be richly rewarded for it. They were probably chanting "God is great!" just before their bodies were pulverized and fried in the flames. And the only lesson to be learned is that which the Romans forgot, to their sorrow. The primary responsibility of a government is to keep the barbarians from coming over the walls. We have too many barbarians coming into the West, and too few controls on them. Though tolerance is a virtue, we are too tolerant.

When Osmama bin laden was killed, he was wrapped in a white sheet, his body prepared according to Muslim law, and he was properly buried. Personally, I would have wrapped him in pig skin and dumped him into a hole surrounded by dead pigs, thrown more dead pigs atop him, then piped in excrement before sealing it all in concrete. In fact, I'd wrap the body of every Muslim terrorist in pig skin and bury him with pigs to show my contempt for him and his belief that God will welcome him into heaven. Their own ridiculous beliefs say that if they're wrapped in pigs skins they're unclean and will be prevented from ascending to heaven forever, so I'd think that a perfectly appropriate response.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Argus

[Argus]

By the way, is this a good time to remind everyone that the Republican party united after 9/11 to oppose health benefits for first responders who were suffering the effects of long exposure to the bad air during the cleanup unless Obama promised to first extend the Bush tax cuts to the richest Americans?

[Machjo]

My thoughts ten years later ..........

It's wrong to try to appease extremists of any stripe, especially those who threaten, target, and kill innocent people.

Agreed. The answer though is not to kill more innocent people, but rather to beef up security in key areas such as airports and launch a planned campaign to first isolate the enemy and then kill or capture it when possible. Iraq for example had zilch to do with 9/11, and many more innocents died, making 9/11 even more tragic than it already was.

I have such a sense of sadness for all of the innocent people who were killed - on that day and the ten years following - and their surviving family and friends. A sadness that at times is overwhelming. Such a loss.

So do I, regardless of whether they were Muslim, non-Muslim, American, Afghan, Iraqi or otherwise. No hyphenated humans here.

I have gone from believing the best about my government to thinking the worst about my government to finally seeing the whole picture.

OK.

I realize that there will always be people from other nations who blame the United States for all the ills of the world while ignoring the benefits that they received by association, giving no credit, assuming no blame/minimizing any blame.

While I can accept the US war against Al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan, at least in principle, even the CIA had expressed doubts about the "proof" of WMDs, and even the US military had advised against going into Iraq. To ignore the advice of specialists in their fields is unexcusable. Sure even experts can sometimes be wrong and amateurs right, but in that case Bush should have been open about the fact that he disagreed with the CIA and military here, rather than tryng to mislead us that somehow it was the CIA and military who supported the Iraq war. Iraqis and Afghans are still being blown up today, possibly by their own people, but at least there was relative stability prior.

I realize these same people will blame the U.S. when our decisions have a negative effect on their country, while ignoring their country's actions that put them in that position/minimizing the decisions that their country made that put them in that position.

Saddam Hussain was no angel, but now you're blaming the Iraqi people for something Saddam Hussain did not do on 9/11! How delusional can we get?

I realize there will always be people who claim that Americans are seeing anti-American sentiment where it doesn't exist (even though it sometimes does), while instantly recognizing anti-Muslim sentiment (even where it doesn't exist).

Unfortunately both anti-Americanism and Islamophobia exist. Al-Qaida can be partially blamed for the Islamophobia and the US government for the anti-American sentiment. But the biggest culprits are the anti-Americans and Islamophobes themselves. It really does not take much to distinguish between an American and the policies of his government, and between Islam and fanaticism in its name. Most anti-Americans were likely so even before 9/11, either cheered the terrists on, kept quiet, or possibly even empathised with the US immediately after 9/11, and then went on to hate all Americans after the war in Iraq. Most Islamophobes had already attacked mosques after the Oklahoma City bombings, but just became even more vehement after 9/11. I don't think 9/11 created many more anti-Americans and Islamophobes, but certainly gave Islamophobes a rallying cry after 9/11, and anti-Americans after the launch of the Iraq war.

I see that we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Possibly, but not necessarily. Immediately after 9/11, there was much worldwide empathy towards the US. Heck, even Saddam Hussaain and the Iranian governments had expressed their sympathies! Unfortunately, the US decided to sqander that good will with "you're either with us or you're against us" type of rhetoric, along with dissing the international community at the UN by presenting proof of WMDswhich even the CIA felt insufficient yet hiding tha fact, and then going into Iraq anyway in spite of Iraq having had zilch to do with 9/11 and not having WMDs.

I appreciate wholeheartedly how fortunate we are to live with the freedoms that we enjoy - this is especially important to me as a woman and mother of two daughters - and hope that people never take it for granted to the point that they become complacent about it.

Defending our country is fine. Destrying another is a whole different ball game.

I remember and thank the troops who have been giving their time, endangering their lives, leaving loved ones behind, for our countries - for us.

The troops yes, they're not political decision-makers. I do make exception for those troops who worked at Abu-Ghraib though, as I'm sure you do.

I feel sadness for all the troops who didn't come home 'whole' and for all of those who didn't come home at all. My heart also goes out to their families and friends.

Likewise, and also for the many Iraqi and Afghan civilians who lost their lives too, who are far more numerous and do not get to just "come home" since they are at home.

Ten years later I am still amazed by the events that took place on 9-11-01. The shock, the fear, the sadness - followed by the wonderful feeling of the country pulling together - "united we stand" - making me proud of my nation; pride at Bush (who I rarely felt pride over) for emphasizing that we are not at war with Islam; a feeling of warmth from the world at large over the reaction and the love poured our way; and of course the feeling of thanks to our neighbor for taking in our planes without question - in spite of any risk it may have put them in - and thanks to all the wonderful Canadians who looked out for the people as they waited until the U.S. could accept flights again - renewing my faith in humanity at a time of such sadness.

Thanks. And I hope we'd do it again.

[Topaz]

All I'm going to say is the people around the world NEED to know the whole TRUTH of how 9/11 happened and why and I don't think we have that because people within the US government and maybe others, have covered up the truth. There too many holes in their stories and I don't think we will ever know the real truth. SO.. lets move on and quit looking back, no one is going to forget what happen and lets look to the future without out fear and IF the governments and agencies do their jobs, the people don't have reason to fear.

[TimG]

All I'm going to say is the people around the world NEED to know the whole TRUTH of how 9/11 happened

We know the TRUTH. Al Queda hijacked planes and flew them into buildings. The US government had warnings that something was suspicious but turf wars meant it was never followed up so it might have been prevented. Beyond that there is nothing to know. Edited September 11, 2011 by TimG

[capricorn]

SO.. lets move on and quit looking back,

Real "truthers" don't quit looking back.

[Machjo]

All I'm going to say is the people around the world NEED to know the whole TRUTH of how 9/11 happened and why and I don't think we have that because people within the US government and maybe others, have covered up the truth. There too many holes in their stories and I don't think we will ever know the real truth. SO.. lets move on and quit looking back, no one is going to forget what happen and lets look to the future without out fear and IF the governments and agencies do their jobs, the people don't have reason to fear.

The truth is already out there. Incompetence and nothing more led to the success of the attacks. The only reason it appears that there was some kind of conspiracy is because after 9/11, in spite of advice to the contrary from both the CIA and the military, the Bush administration insisted on going to war in Iraq in spite of any lack of connection with 9/11. This had nothing to do with any conspiracy prior to 9/11 though, but rather the US administration simply milking it for all it was worth after the fact.

[Tilter]

We know the TRUTH. Al Queda hijacked planes and flew them into buildings. The US government had warnings that something was suspicious but turf wars meant it was never followed up so it might have been prevented. Beyond that there is nothing to know.

There is a solution to the terrorism demonstrated by the Islamic world on 9/11,. Unfortunately it would cause all Saudi oil to become a Radiation Hazard.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... This had nothing to do with any conspiracy prior to 9/11 though, but rather the US administration simply milking it for all it was worth after the fact.

The US (and UK) were already at "war" with Iraq long before 9/11. Canada was even helping them to strangle the country with enforced sanctions. Blair and Clinton bombed them at will, especially in 1998 (Operation Desert Fox).

[Machjo]

There is a solution to the terrorism demonstrated by the Islamic world on 9/11,. Unfortunately it would cause all Saudi oil to become a Radiation Hazard.

So all Saudis are terrorists now? Actually, Bin Ladin was somewhat of a paryah in Saudi Arabia, and not very welcome. Again, even Ahmanidejad and Saddam Hussain had expressed their condolences to the victims of 9/11. Get your facts straight.

Those celebrating in the streets were merely those who got the attention of the media. No news is good news after all.

[Guest American Woman]

Those celebrating in the streets were merely those who got the attention of the media.

Those celebrating in the streets were "merely" - those celebrating the deaths of innocent people.

[Tilter]

So all Saudis are terrorists now? Actually, Bin Ladin was somewhat of a paryah in Saudi Arabia, and not very welcome. Again, even Ahmanidejad and Saddam Hussain had expressed their condolences to the victims of 9/11. Get your facts straight.

Those celebrating in the streets were merely those who got the attention of the media. No news is good news after all.

ALL Saudis are princes, bigoted, wife beating scum who are, even with the vast fortunes made by $10/ Bbl now selling for $100, breaking the countries financial back by their atrocious living habits. So, a few innocent people are killed by the non-selective gamma rays--- just think of it as giving the country a super powered Xray.

[Guest American Woman]

Sept 11 anniversary marked worldwide

This brings me comfort.

[jbg]

and thanks to all the wonderful Canadians who looked out for the people as they waited until the U.S. could accept flights again - renewing my faith in humanity at a time of such sadness.

And that's one of the reasons I participate on Canadian boards and am interested in Canada.

[Argus]

All I'm going to say is the people around the world NEED to know the whole TRUTH of how 9/11 happened and why and I don't think we have that because people within the US government and maybe others, have covered up the truth. There too many holes in their stories and I don't think we will ever know the real truth.

There is an old axiom that two people can keep a secret as long as one of them is dead. I think we've seen evidence of that repeatedly.

All idiotic conspiracy theories aside, the notion that literally hundreds of people at all levels of the American government, military, policing, engineering, and academic communities would conspire to cover up the 'conspiracy' which has become the most emotional moment in American memory, and that not a single one has since allowed the secret out is so utterly preposterous as to make alien anal probes seem like a near logical certainty. And anyone who believes these conspiracy theories forfeits all right to be taken seriously on any issue.