BC votes to get rid of the HST

[scouterjim]

Apparently 54% said "Get rid of it." Now I won't pay 12% on things I never paid sales tax on before, my restaurant bills will go back to 5%, and big corporations will have to start paying taxes on their products again. The tax created no jobs as was promised, didn't save tax payers money despite claims it would, and did not drop prices as we were told would happen (like that would ever happen). It was a bad tax period.

[TimG]

The tax created no jobs as was promised, didn't save tax payers money despite claims it would, and did not drop prices as we were told would happen (like that would ever happen). It was a bad tax period.

No one said these benefits would materialize immediately - especially with the referendum making it impossible for businesses to plan. If it had won these benefits would have come in time. Now the government will have to make do with a less efficient tax system because there are too many self-centered people in BC who think that other people should pay taxes for services they use.

[scouterjim]

No one said these benefits would materialize immediately - especially with the referendum making it impossible for businesses to plan. If it had won these benefits would have come in time. Now the government will have to make do with a less efficient tax system because there are too many self-centered people in BC who think that other people should pay taxes for services they use.

The businesses not only did NOT pass savings on to the consumers (they pocketed them), they RAISED prices in order to pocket more.

Edited August 27, 2011 by scouterjim

[TimG]

The businesses not only did NOT pass savings on to the consumers (they pocketed them), they RAISED prices in order to pocket more.

Again, it takes time for these effects to kick in and I can guarantee that no business would make long term pricing decisions with the referendum ahead. It is unreasonable for you to expect to see significant price drops given the uncertainty and that is certainly no justification for voting the tax down. Every other juristiction that introduced an HST has seen that businesses pass the savings on. There is no reason to believe it would not have happen in BC too - if the HST had passed. Edited August 27, 2011 by TimG

[scouterjim]

Again, it takes time for these effects to kick in and I can guarantee that no business would make long term pricing decisions with the referendum ahead. It is unreasonable for you to expect to see significant price drops given the uncertainty and that is certainly no justification for voting the tax down. Every other juristiction that introduced an HST has seen that businesses pass the savings on. There is no reason to believe it would not have happen in BC too - if the HST had passed.

Forgive me if I doubt that. From what I have read, NO prices have dropped due to a tax.

[TimG]

Forgive me if I doubt that. From what I have read, NO prices have dropped due to a tax.

Ancedotes do not equal data:

According to the survey, in 22 countries, no major impact on the consumer price index was identified.

...

Therefore, in 29 cases (22 plus seven) -- 83 per cent of the total sample -- the introduction of VAT did not alter the rate of price change.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/apr/16vat.htm

The only way to have no effect on inflation when taxing a broader range of goods are price reductions in others.

[Moonlight Graham]

From everything i've read the HST in BC was good for business and the overall economy (in the longterm at least), not so good for consumers.

[Guest Derek L]

From everything i've read the HST in BC was good for business and the overall economy (in the longterm at least), not so good for consumers.

It’s relative, it won’t be much better for consumers once the forestry and movie industry die again........not a lot of big household purchases when you’re unemployed.....and just wait till they cut 3 billion dollars in services to get the debt under control....

[dre]

No one said these benefits would materialize immediately - especially with the referendum making it impossible for businesses to plan. If it had won these benefits would have come in time. Now the government will have to make do with a less efficient tax system because there are too many self-centered people in BC who think that other people should pay taxes for services they use.

No they can still make the case for changing taxation. If they had been honest in the first place, and implemented the tax at the rate they ended up promising during the referendum then people probably would have voted for it. Its their own damn fault.

[August1991]

Apparently 54% said "Get rid of it." Now I won't pay 12% on things I never paid sales tax on before, my restaurant bills will go back to 5%, and big corporations will have to start paying taxes on their products again. The tax created no jobs as was promised, didn't save tax payers money despite claims it would, and did not drop prices as we were told would happen (like that would ever happen). It was a bad tax period.

I think the federal government should send a bill of $400 to each person in BC for reimbursement of the $1.6 billion subsidy. Why should other Canadians pay for the folly of BC voters?

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Socialists/Leftists should draw a great lesson from this referendum: most people want others to pay for collective costs.

[TimG]

No they can still make the case for changing taxation.

That won't happen and you know it so your attempt to deflect the blame is pointless.

[dre]

That won't happen and you know it so your attempt to deflect the blame is pointless.

Theres no blame for me to deflect Timmay. I didnt vote against the HST. Blame for its failure lies with the government and its you that seems to be trying to deflect it.

[Vancouverite]

Yesss!

The thing is that the Liberal government said it wouldn't do it, then, after the election, turned around and did it. And it had to be punished for that.

[scouterjim]

Yesss!

The thing is that the Liberal government said it wouldn't do it, then, after the election, turned around and did it. And it had to be punished for that.

Yup. Pre-election - "We will not inplement an HST!", "No, there will be no HST.", "As long as we are the government, there won't be an HST".

Post election - "We are implementing an HST because it is good for you."

[kimmy]

The people I know who were most in favor of the HST are business owners. It's funny, people often talk about how stupid it is that government makes life difficult for businesses, but when the government does something that makes life easier for business, suddenly people are mad because a coffee at Tim's costs them 8 cents more.

The people I know who were most opposed to the HST happen to all be dummies, mooks, idiots, and the sort of cranky old people who are mad about everything and shout at clouds if there's nothing else to complain about. These are inevitably people who struggle to come up with examples of stuff where the HST actually cost them more money; the ones complaining about the cost of dining out going up are usually people for whom "dining out" is their monthly trip to Burger King.

I think the federal government should send a bill of $400 to each person in BC for reimbursement of the $1.6 billion subsidy. Why should other Canadians pay for the folly of BC voters?

As I understand it, the province is on the hook for that money, so it's coming out of our pockets one way or another.

-k

[Bonam]

I think the federal government should send a bill of $400 to each person in BC for reimbursement of the $1.6 billion subsidy. Why should other Canadians pay for the folly of BC voters.?

Funny question from a Quebecker. Wanna give the tens of billions in equalization you've gotten over the decades back?

[dre]

Like I said... this result does not mean we cant reform the tax and make it more efficient. If the government can, in an open and honest manner come up with a taxation scheme thats more efficient but does not move the tax burden, then people in BC will be in favor of it.

Id actually like to get rid of both the GST and PST and collect those revenues through our graduated income tax system.... one form... once per year.

[TimG]

Id actually like to get rid of both the GST and PST and collect those revenues through our graduated income tax system.... one form... once per year.

IOW - you want to make the tax system a lot less efficient. Tax systems need a broad base with multiple sources of revenue. An efficient system should be collecting as much in consumption taxes as it collects in incomes taxes.

Also, tax systems that depend too much on income taxes are also very bad for democracy because the majority of voters will be paying little or no tax. This encourages corruption and waste because the people paying the bills are not the ones setting the policies.

Edited August 27, 2011 by TimG

[scouterjim]

The people I know who were most in favor of the HST are business owners. It's funny, people often talk about how stupid it is that government makes life difficult for businesses, but when the government does something that makes life easier for business, suddenly people are mad because a coffee at Tim's costs them 8 cents more.

The people I know who were most opposed to the HST happen to all be dummies, mooks, idiots, and the sort of cranky old people who are mad about everything and shout at clouds if there's nothing else to complain about. These are inevitably people who struggle to come up with examples of stuff where the HST actually cost them more money; the ones complaining about the cost of dining out going up are usually people for whom "dining out" is their monthly trip to Burger King.

As I understand it, the province is on the hook for that money, so it's coming out of our pockets one way or another.

-k

Sure we are responsible for it....thanks to a bad tax implemented by a government that lied to us. If they had told us right out at election time, it probably would have been accepted. As it was, they did an end run on it, and are now forced to rescind the tax.

Edited August 27, 2011 by scouterjim

[bill_barilko]

The businesses not only did NOT pass savings on to the consumers (they pocketed them), they RAISED prices in order to pocket more.

That's right-business never has been and never will be the friend of the consumer-that's not how the system works.

From everything i've read the HST in BC was good for business and the overall economy (in the longterm at least), not so good for consumers.

I live here and know everything you've read is lying garbage.

Yup. Pre-election - "We will not inplement an HST!", "No, there will be no HST.", "As long as we are the government, there won't be an HST".

Post election - "We are implementing an HST because it is good for you."

Yes we remember it well and never will we forget or forgive-that's not how politics works here.

The people I know who were most opposed to the HST happen to all be dummies, mooks, idiots, and the sort of cranky old people who are mad about everything and shout at clouds if there's nothing else to complain about. These are inevitably people who struggle to come up with examples of stuff where the HST actually cost them more money; the ones complaining about the cost of dining out going up are usually people for whom "dining out" is their monthly trip to Burger King....

Your post speaks volumes about the kind of people you know-and don't know-perhaps a weekend trip away from the trailer park is in order.

[Wilber]

I think the federal government should send a bill of $400 to each person in BC for reimbursement of the $1.6 billion subsidy. Why should other Canadians pay for the folly of BC voters?

----

Socialists/Leftists should draw a great lesson from this referendum: most people want others to pay for collective costs.

Don't worry, the money has to be returned, whether it should or not is not an issue in BC. I do wonder how difficult it might be in Quebec in a situation like this.

Politicians should draw a great lesson from this referendum. Don't lie, particularly in provinces that have referendum legislation.

[Bonam]

That's right-business never has been and never will be the friend of the consumer-that's not how the system works.

Just how do you think produces the goods and services that the consumer wants to consume?

[Smallc]

Funny question from a Quebecker. Wanna give the tens of billions in equalization you've gotten over the decades back?

Has Quebec gone back on the equalization agreement? Because BC has now gone back on it's agreement. That's why they're different.

[Sir Bandelot]

The people I know who were most opposed to the HST happen to all be dummies, mooks, idiots, and the sort of cranky old people who are mad about everything and shout at clouds if there's nothing else to complain about.

I guess that'd be the majority of voters in BC then?

[Pliny]

Sad day for BC. Other taxes will be introduced or existing taxes increased and services will be cut - which ones will you vote for?

The Liberals lost their leader over this; wasn't that punishment enough for the arrogant way it was introduced? Demanding more is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The guy that really peed me off was Chris Delaney. What's his excuse for getting on this anti-HST bandwagon?

More than 54% of any population doesn't have too much truck with macro-economics and economic theory.

When politicians don't we are in trouble. Vander Zalm, Dix, Delaney, and even Chrisitie Clark who allowed the referendum out of political expediency - a pox on them all. If the NDP had gotten elected they would not have gotten rid of the HST at all and perhaps that would have been the best coursse of action for the public - for an election to have been called.

ScouterJim there is happy for himself along with the 54% of those who like to see other people pay taxes but not themselves. Gosh, do you think now the price of things will go down? Corporations do have to get their tax money from someone, after all. I wonder where they get it from? He thinks he is getting away with paying less if corporations are taxed. Yep, yep I shouldn't have to pay taxes the rich should pay, yep yep. It's only right. What a noddy!

Well, it's all water under the bridge now. The worst is yet to come.