Layton Lionisation Excessive

[Sandy MacNab]

For better or worse, it says Canadians crave a political 'Obama'. Layton has shown the way forward.

What a horrible thing to say about Canadians! Canadians are waaaaaaay smarter than that.

[Sir Bandelot]

What a horrible thing to say about Canadians! Canadians are waaaaaaay smarter than that.

Really? They voted Harper a majority.

[Guest American Woman]

Sir Bandelot, on 26 August 2011 - 06:51 PM, said: For better or worse, it says Canadians crave a political 'Obama'. Layton has shown the way forward.

What a horrible thing to say about Canadians! Canadians are waaaaaaay smarter than that.

Not really. Canada, for the most part, like the rest of the world, loved Obama.

[g_bambino]

Nothing wrong with dignified respect. I just felt the lionization, as someone referred to it, or the sainthood, had gotten way, way, way over the top. Still do. And my commentary was not so much disrespectful for Layton as it is for those engaging in the overhyped and meldramatic "grieving" for a man they never met.

Pretty well sums up my opinions.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not really. Canada, for the most part, like the rest of the world, loved Obama.

very true, as has been discussed in other threads. Obama the candidate attracted world-wide adulation. The same can't be said of Mr. Layton.

[Guest Derek L]

No

The posts

Are disgusting

In your opinion……….other opinions differ…………Gaddafi is on the run and a hurricane could potentially wipe out the eastern seaboard, but a Canadian politician that took a party from number four to number two and hasn’t accomplished much on the national level is garnering all the attention in the Canadian media…….That’s what is disgusting

[CrazeeEddie]

If I may, I will try to explain at least my point of view. I've never met jack. Never been in his presence. I did not even follow his career until the last 6 years or so. But I saw something in Jack I didn't see anywhere else. Not in Harper, Martin, Ignatieff, Day. I saw your every day Canadian. I saw someone who seemed to understand where I was coming gfrom, what I wanted for my country, and seemed to genuinely wanted to make this country better. I saw something better than the whole 'liberals suck'/ 'conservatives suck' bs Canadian Politics has been downgraded to. When I heard, my eyes welled up. I was surprised actually at how it caught me (I do not show emotion very well in public) but it actually hit me like a brick wall. I believe that Canadians believed in Jack. I also firmly believe that many Canadians who had not voted NDP in the past were now truely seeing it as a real choice. I include myself in that category. I voted NDP in the last election for the first time ever. Now, I cannot see anyone at all I believe in enough to vote for them. So yeah, I cried. I cried for Jack. I cried for all those who believed in him. I cried for my country. If that makes me effeminate or weak, or fake in your eyes, so be it. I just hope some day you find someone you truly believe in too.

[msj]

In your opinion……….other opinions differ…………Gaddafi is on the run and a hurricane could potentially wipe out the eastern seaboard, but a Canadian politician that took a party from number four to number two and hasn’t accomplished much on the national level is garnering all the attention in the Canadian media…….That’s what is disgusting

No, what's disgusting is in an age of the intertubes one would rather bitch about not being able to filter out the Jack Layton show so he can watch the Gaddafi drama and all the the storm porn you could desire.

Learn how to use the intertubes and you can choose what interests *you* so you can stop whining about what interests other people and happens to garner attention from the mainstream media.

[CPCFTW]

If I may, I will try to explain at least my point of view. I've never met jack. Never been in his presence. I did not even follow his career until the last 6 years or so. But I saw something in Jack I didn't see anywhere else. Not in Harper, Martin, Ignatieff, Day. I saw your every day Canadian. I saw someone who seemed to understand where I was coming gfrom, what I wanted for my country, and seemed to genuinely wanted to make this country better. I saw something better than the whole 'liberals suck'/ 'conservatives suck' bs Canadian Politics has been downgraded to. When I heard, my eyes welled up. I was surprised actually at how it caught me (I do not show emotion very well in public) but it actually hit me like a brick wall. I believe that Canadians believed in Jack. I also firmly believe that many Canadians who had not voted NDP in the past were now truely seeing it as a real choice. I include myself in that category. I voted NDP in the last election for the first time ever. Now, I cannot see anyone at all I believe in enough to vote for them. So yeah, I cried. I cried for Jack. I cried for all those who believed in him. I cried for my country. If that makes me effeminate or weak, or fake in your eyes, so be it. I just hope some day you find someone you truly believe in too.

Don't worry, he comes back on Easter.

[noahbody]

I saw something better than the whole 'liberals suck'/ 'conservatives suck' bs Canadian Politics has been downgraded to.

Politics is a game and Jack was playing like everyone else. He would tell you anything you want to hear. He would help politicize crucial issues like health care reform, defending from "the Americanization of Health Care." Of course, he knew our health care system is a mix of public and private care and that no one was suggesting getting rid of a universal payer system. "Americanization" just made a good sound bite. So did "George Bush's America" regarding Afghanistan. Jack wasn't really civil either. He equated Paul Martin to a murderer.

But then he found Jesus, the American one... Obama. All of a sudden he was selling hope, change and a new way of doing politics. Why? Because it worked for Obama. It paid off for him in spades.

IMO, calling Jack a political legend or the best prime minister we never had is way over the top. He ran a very good last campaign and won over the hearts of Quebecers who wanted change.

[CrazeeEddie]

Politics is a game and Jack was playing like everyone else. He would tell you anything you want to hear. He would help politicize crucial issues like health care reform, defending from "the Americanization of Health Care." Of course, he knew our health care system is a mix of public and private care and that no one was suggesting getting rid of a universal payer system. "Americanization" just made a good sound bite. So did "George Bush's America" regarding Afghanistan. Jack wasn't really civil either. He equated Paul Martin to a murderer.

But then he found Jesus, the American one... Obama. All of a sudden he was selling hope, change and a new way of doing politics. Why? Because it worked for Obama. It paid off for him in spades.

IMO, calling Jack a political legend or the best prime minister we never had is way over the top. He ran a very good last campaign and won over the hearts of Quebecers who wanted change.

I see where you're coming from, and why you'd feel that way. That's what its all about now. I may be wrong, but he seemed to care more than anyone else out there, and the more I read about him amd watched him, the more disappointed I became in what we have now. I have been saying for a few years now that the only thing holding Jack back was the orange of the NDP. I believe without a doubt that were he running as a Liberal, he WOULD have become PM by now. I guess Harper can thank Jack for that as well.

And if you think it was only Quebec, I suggest you take a look again at Ontario, and how many ridings that would normally have gone Liberal were suddenly split down the middle (many of which went CPC because of that Liberal NDP split).

[CrazeeEddie]

Don't worry, he comes back on Easter.

HAHAHA OMG, I can't stop laughing at your incredible wit and humour! That's ok, some day you'll find a leader you can believe in too.

[Bitsy]

If I may, I will try to explain at least my point of view. I've never met jack. Never been in his presence. I did not even follow his career until the last 6 years or so. But I saw something in Jack I didn't see anywhere else. Not in Harper, Martin, Ignatieff, Day. I saw your every day Canadian. I saw someone who seemed to understand where I was coming gfrom, what I wanted for my country, and seemed to genuinely wanted to make this country better. I saw something better than the whole 'liberals suck'/ 'conservatives suck' bs Canadian Politics has been downgraded to. When I heard, my eyes welled up. I was surprised actually at how it caught me (I do not show emotion very well in public) but it actually hit me like a brick wall. I believe that Canadians believed in Jack. I also firmly believe that many Canadians who had not voted NDP in the past were now truely seeing it as a real choice. I include myself in that category. I voted NDP in the last election for the first time ever. Now, I cannot see anyone at all I believe in enough to vote for them. So yeah, I cried. I cried for Jack. I cried for all those who believed in him. I cried for my country. If that makes me effeminate or weak, or fake in your eyes, so be it. I just hope some day you find someone you truly believe in too.

Thank you for sharing your heartfelt emotions. I share them even though I am an American. I did follow your election with great interest and was impressed by the genuineness of Jack’s character something I find lacking in most people especially politicians.

[Guest American Woman]

No, what's disgusting is in an age of the intertubes one would rather bitch about not being able to filter out the Jack Layton show so he can watch the Gaddafi drama and all the the storm porn you could desire.

Learn how to use the intertubes and you can choose what interests *you* so you can stop whining about what interests other people and happens to garner attention from the mainstream media.

Amen to that. Anyone who is online posting on this forum has access to all of the news coverage about anything they are interested in that they could possibly need.

[Guest American Woman]

Thank you for sharing your heartfelt emotions. I share them even though I am an American. I did follow your election with great interest and was impressed by the genuineness of Jack’s character something I find lacking in most people especially politicians.

Regardless of what one thought about his politics and what he was doing/trying to do for Canada (Layoton's politics were what he and his followers believed in), his "character" was no better or worse than "most people especially politicians." People using Layton's death to criticize other politicians' character is just the opposite side of the coin of those going after Layton/his supporters mourning, IMO.

[Topaz]

I never voted for Jack, but he earned the respect that the everyday Canadian gave to him, especially since his death. Jack was right on many of his views and those views on middle-class and down, those Canadians believed in them too. The Tories stand by business and Jack stood by the workers and the poor of this country. One only had to listen to him in Question Period and what he asked of the seating governments.So Jack's gone now and the question is now, who will have the same views on the working class, the NDP or will the Liberals take a lessons from Canadians views on Jack and also fight for the workers and the poor in Canada. Now, let Jack RIP.

[cybercoma]

He would help politicize crucial issues like health care reform

Say it ain't so, noah. He would politicize a political issue like healthcare reform?

[Bitsy]

Regardless of what one thought about his politics and what he was doing/trying to do for Canada (Layoton's politics were what he and his followers believed in), his "character" was no better or worse than "most people especially politicians." People using Layton's death to criticize other politicians' character is just the opposite side of the coin of those going after Layton/his supporters mourning, IMO.

Unlike you, I do not consider all people character's equal.

[noahbody]

Say it ain't so, noah. He would politicize a political issue like healthcare reform?

It's only a political issue by choice. The one thing Jack did accomplish was to help get rid of the minority government situation, that made dealing with political issues impossible.

[Guest American Woman]

Unlike you, I do not consider all people character's equal.

I do that, do I? Pretty ironic accusation coming from someone who considers Layton's character above most others', so it's just "most others" that you consider equal, or more correctly, equally bad.

If you had been watching the election as closely as you claim, you would realize that Layton's "character" was every bit as 'questionable' as the next politician's. So I can only assume one of two things: either you didn't watch it closely or you gave Layton a pass for anything and everything concerning his character while condmening everyone else for anything and everything concerning their character.

As I said, IMO using Layton's death to bring up and criticize other politicians' character is no more classy than those who are criticizing those who mourn Layton.

[Bitsy]

I do that, do I? Pretty ironic accusation coming from someone who considers Layton's character above most others', so it's just "most others" that you consider equal, or more correctly, equally bad.

If you had been watching the election as closely as you claim, you would realize that Layton's "character" was every bit as 'questionable' as the next politician's. So I can only assume one of two things: either you didn't watch it closely or you gave Layton a pass for anything and everything concerning his character while condmening everyone else for anything and everything concerning their character.

As I said, IMO using Layton's death to bring up and criticize other politicians' character is no more classy than those who are criticizing those who mourn Layton.

And we know that you are all about class

[Guest American Woman]

And we know that you are all about class

Nice rebuttal - a personal attack.

[punked]

It's only a political issue by choice. The one thing Jack did accomplish was to help get rid of the minority government situation, that made dealing with political issues impossible.

No it is a political issue by its very being a political issue. How about you name someone who has not politicized health care in this country. Go ahead try so I can find a quote and make you look and idiot for your statement.

[Guest Peeves]

I never voted for Jack, but he earned the respect that the everyday Canadian gave to him, especially since his death. Jack was right on many of his views and those views on middle-class and down, those Canadians believed in them too. The Tories stand by business and Jack stood by the workers and the poor of this country. One only had to listen to him in Question Period and what he asked of the seating governments.So Jack's gone now and the question is now, who will have the same views on the working class, the NDP or will the Liberals take a lessons from Canadians views on Jack and also fight for the workers and the poor in Canada. Now, let Jack RIP.

The Tories stand by business and Jack stood by the workers and the poor of this country

A nice folksy mantra but hardly true.

Do you think Tories and business gave the Conservatives a majority?

Do you think those Liberals and Bloc that either switched or deserted their parties were workers and the poor?

The difference is far more than the poor and workers, it' a differing philosophy.

Conservatives want less government, Socialists want more. More programs, more taxes, more government programs, more government employees.

Socialist will always raise taxes and implement more government programs, more government employees at the expense of workers as much as any other. Rae did that in Ontario. Layton would if given an opportunity done the same to Canada Federally.

The average worker can no more afford a socialist agenda/government than can business. Besides, business is composed of workers and share holders.

The 'bloc' of Quebec elected 'as' NDP, will leave the NDP in short order.

\\

http://thetrustytory2.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/bob-raes-secret-life/

“The Liberal Party of Canada will [appoint]a new [interim/permanent] leader…One of the front runners is a guy who I wouldn’t trust to lead my dog around the block never mind lead the country. Bob Rae.

His known shortcomings are well-documented. His disastrous term (1990-1995) as Premier of Ontario was plagued by scandal, controversy and fly-by-the-seat-of-your pants decision-making. After leading Ontario’s socialist-oriented New Democratic Party to victory in 1990, Rae disappointed some and horrified others. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone in Ontario who has anything good to say about him…

…When his free-spending fiscal policy added billions (about $40 billion by the time he was booted out of office in 1995) to the deficit he inherited, he…then forced public employees to take 10 days of unpaid leave each year. The much reviled “Rae Days” live on in infamy among public employees many of who voted for the guy…

…He hiked university tuition fees, cut the number of places in medical schools (to decrease health care spending) and made Ontarians the most-taxed people in North America and did many other ill-considered things.

Rae’s disastrous administration continues to haunt the Ontario NDP. In the decade following his booting by the electorate, the NDP has virtually disappeared from the public consciousness in Ontario, winning only a handful of the 103 seats in Queen’s Park (the Ontario legislature) in subsequent elections…”

[Argus]

No it is a political issue by its very being a political issue. How about you name someone who has not politicized health care in this country. Go ahead try so I can find a quote and make you look and idiot for your statement.

The discussion should be about providing the best possible health care to all Canadians in the most efficient, effective manner, and that includes at the cheapest possible price. I don't think anyone on any party has different objectives. They just have different ideas about how to best bring that about.